Topic: What exactly does "weeding" mean?

[antipodes]

I have been wondering this for a while: how do people keep their plantations so weed free? Mine is full of small seedlings and since I am a newbie and can hardly recognize most seedlings, I am loath to weed as I might damage the babies!!
But how do you weed anyway? I have lots of bindweed that I have been resorting to pulling out by hand on all fours, but I can't do 100 m2 like that can I? How do I clear weeds from in between the rows? All the other gardeners on my site seem to have zero weeds where they have planted, I don't understand how they manage this? Sorry that this seems like a thick question, but there must be a technique that I don't know about??
The weeds I get are mostly bindweed  :-[ thistles, groundsel and some small leafy thing that i cannot identify. oh and clover but I tend to just rip handfuls of that off and not worry about the roots.
Help! I don't want to be over run with weeds now that I have managed to plant most of my things and my number one objective is to at least keep the plot tidy even if I haven't been able to "landscape it" properly  :(

[tin can]

I wonder if you are using the ground for veg for the first time??
It does take a few years for the weed seeds to germinate before they slow down a bit!!
I weed mostly by hand as I find unless I hoe on a sunny day, that a lot of the seedlings reroot.
Also chopping off plants like dock and dandelions doesn't initially get rid of them.
 By hoeing, you are also bringing fresh weed seeds nearer to the surface and encouraging them to grow. I suppose at least that could be a good thing as they will then be disposed of!
Using manure which is not well rotted can also introduce weed seeds.
It is a bit of a battle, especially at this time of the year but they will slow down as your established plants cover the soil!
I think the secret is not to peak at the other plots and then you'll be happier with your plot! ;)

[antipodes]

Yes it is the first year I have the plot. I guess that is why I seem to have so many weeds, how annoying. It wouldn't be so bad if I could identify them all, I have tried web sites but I could really do with an old hand to come and say "get rid of that and that, oh that will die off by itself" etc etc.
How exactly do you use the hoe? That seems like an exceptionally stupid question but I couldn't ask one of the other gardeners to show me, I would be far too embarrassed to admit my ignorance!!

[bennettsleg]

I can empathise: this is my second year and last year's weeds were awful.  So here goes:

Cover all areas that you're not using with weed suppressant cloth to stop them getting out of hand.

Bindweed will keep on coming back unless you either dig out all the very fragile roots in one piece or let it grow a bit, tie it in a knot, stamp all over it in a hissy fit, cut the bottom half off a 2Litre pop bottle, sink the cut edge into the ground over the bind weed, put the nozzle of your chosen poison into the bottle neck and spray away.  Leave the bottle in place.  Repeat weekly - including the stamping.  It's the only way I've managed to clear this stuff, particularly from between crop rows.

Every time you visit the plot, pull off the heads of flowering weeds and burn them or put them in your domestic bin.  Weeds can still release seeds even when pulled from the plant.  "One year's seeding is 7 year's weeding!"

Get as much of the roots out as possible for dandilions, thistles and other perennial weeds otherwise they may come back.

After all this rain is the perfect time for weeding as the ground's soft enough to let go of the roots.

I have found a hand tool that has three curved prongs at the end of it very usefull indeed.  It was the only thing that let me make good progress at weeding my allium bed this weekend. You can get up close and personal with each weed without damaging your crop, the prongs go deep enough to disturb the roots and you can even bash clods of earth with the back of the tool to break it up. Sorry - I have no clue what the proper name is!

Just remember: you can't do it all at once, keep on going, cover what you can, and remember that the weed-free plots are probably held by people who spend a significant portion of their week on their plot!

[saddad]

and take the long view... only good fertile soil supports loads of plants/weeds
 ;D

[Jeannine]

Saddad, I think my soil must be better than on the south  side of the River Jordan then.


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

The best way to avoid weeds is not to dig, and to keep the surface covered with mulch.

[legendaryone]

I have found a hand tool that has three curved prongs at the end of it very usefull indeed.  It was the only thing that let me make good progress at weeding my allium bed this weekend. You can get up close and personal with each weed without damaging your crop, the prongs go deep enough to disturb the roots and you can even bash clods of earth with the back of the tool to break it up. Sorry - I have no clue what the proper name is!

Hi bennetsleg, the tool you are using is called a cultivator and you can long handled versions as well. I was using my long handled one to break up the large clods then i go over it with a rake to break the lumps eeven smaller :)

[halibut-t]

How exactly do you use the hoe?

Hi Antipodes, first point about hoes is there are more than one type. I find the best one for weeding (though others may challenge this [feel free]) is a Dutch hoe type. Mine was made by my Grandad years ago and has a flat 5"x2" blade on the end of a long (6') pole. The blade has been sharpened on both the leading and rear edges so it can cut in the forward push and the back pull (if that makes sense). All you do is lay the blade flat on the surface and push it forward say by a foot (depending on ground, vegetation, rocks etc) it will naturally dig itself in to a depth of about half an inch ish as you do (although this can vary depending on the head angle and or pole length [oh and how hard the ground is]) and all the weeds will be sliced off. then pull back the hoe to where you started and you will notice it will probably cut on the pull as well. Carry on like this as you see fit. As long as the hoe is sharp (mine is like a knife) then it tends to be effortless.  I tend to leave the smaller weeds lying on the surface where they fall so the sun can dry them out (free mulch), others tend to gather them up, your call really.

hope this helps.

'H'

[kt.]

I have been wondering this for a while: how do people keep their plantations so weed free?

When I got my plot last year it was a jungle. I never planted anything at all but worked long and hard to dig everything out by hand. Many days, weekends, evenings. I started planting on this plot with overwintering onions. Now my plot is absolutely bursting with fruits & veg & salad crop.

My brassicas all have plastic collars around them. So this makes it easy to hoe between plants without harming them. When I sow seed - I leave the plum line in the ground for about 4 weeks until seeds germinate. I currently have 5 plum-lines in. This way I hoe between the plumlines so as not to disturb seedlings. It takes me a maximum of 10 minutes 2-3 times weekly to go between beds and how to keep weed free. As long as I keep on top of this - I can honestly say I have no weeds amongst any of my crop. I will post some photos on Thursday.

[antipodes]

Oh.
This all explains quite a few things.
1. I should keep a better track of where I have sown seed! Then I would know where to weed!
2. Yeah, mulch - that has worked pretty well for the potatoes (except for some bindweed but I rip it out if it gets through the straw). Everyone knows that my weed suppressants are frowned on by the (crappy) site manager but I have been mulching what I can - spuds, toms, melon, pumpkin, squash. I know you are not supposed to mulch alliums, what about the root veg? They are only just seedlings for now.
3. Hoe. I have a hoe that is on a normal pole, it is about 20cm wide I would say and I have only just bought it, I dunno if it is sharp. SO I just put it on the top of the ground and pull it and it cuts off the weeds? I wasn't actually sure if it is meant to cut them or pull them out  :-\
4. I don't think I could have left the plot under cover to kill the weeds, on the site where I am, if you do not cultivate immediately they chuck you out, which is why I had to throw myself into things and plant everywhere, without really being able to take time to prepare things properly. I did some bastard trenching in a couple of areas, and that has controlled the weeds a little but not entirely. I even get bindweed coming through the black plastic next to my strawbs!! I have to spend at least 10 mins each time ripping it out. Such a pain.
What intrigues me is that the bindweed was nowhere to be seen in the winter when I took the plot!!! Where does it go? Is there a time of year when it finally dies off???
Thanks for all the hints, this has been a useful question!!

[Robert_Brenchley]

Bindweed dies back in late autumn. The hoe is too wide for delicate work between rows - get a narrower onion hoe as well. Keep it sharp; a blunt hoe is no use to anyone.

[manicscousers]

we've got a hoe with a triangular shaped head, that's good between close crops, a half moon shaped hoe, we find that good for between onions, it's about 4" across..we get most of our tools from auctions or car boots so they're not expensive  :)

[kt.]

I have put some piccies of my weed free plot in THE GALLERY. Just for you.

[antipodes]

Oh thanks! gosh my plot is just so messy compared to everyone else's! But I know that I didn't take enough time to properly line everything up and delimit the edges, that will be my goal in the winter when I won't be growing much apart from pumpkins, leeks, sprouts and salad stuff. In other words, my garden doesn't have well defined edges, it kind of melts into the paths around it. Mine is the only one that does that...  :-[
Yes, I think that I don't have the right type of hoes for the job at hand, although I do have a hand version of that 3-pronged thing (cultivator) that bennetsleg was talking about. Maybe I could do the onions and garlic with that...
I have the hoe that is the last one on this page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/hoe.shtml but maybe it is not truly useful?? I also have a type of pick mattock that I use to hack away the biggest weeds and loosen the ground to rip them up but that's not really appropriate now that stuff is growing.

[halibut-t]

I have the hoe that is the last one on this page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/hoe.shtml but maybe it is not truly useful??

Hi Antipodes,

For general weeding between rows the second type on the list is probably going to be the easiest to get on with initially, though you will need to sharpen the edges, front and back (file, sander, grinder they all do the job well enough)

Cheers,

'H'

[Rohaise]

I have put some piccies of my weed free plot in THE GALLERY. Just for you.

    I,m off to have a peek !   Rohaise    ;)

[DadnDom]

My sympathies are with you, we just cut a plot out of grassland, now it is a sea of green seedlings....hardly any of them mine :(
Backbreaking work but keep at it, things can only get better.

[Wasp_Box]

The best way to avoid weeds is not to dig, and to keep the surface covered with mulch.

I'm quite interested in the no-dig and surface mulch concept. It seems a sensible way of managing ground (and this is coming from the rotavator king!). Do you do this? How do you find it?

EDIT: Sorry, bit of a thread jack but anything that reduces the weeding....

[Robert_Brenchley]

It's great for a lot of crops. If something's in the ground a long time you have to keep your eye on it as the mulch can all disappear, and then the weeds start growing. The other thing to be careful of is small seedlings. But used with care, it saves a load of work.