Topic: Outdoor tomatoes: Bush or cordon?

[dandelion]

I'm growing 4 different  tomatoes outdoors:
Marmande
Gardener's delight
Ailsa Craig
Tigerella
Should I treat these all the same, training them as cordons? I vaguely remember having read somewhere that  Marmande should be trained as a semi-cordon (whatever that is  :-\?)

[Robert_Brenchley]

Grow them all as bush regardless. They only have a short cropping season outdoors, so you want as many fruit to set as possible in the time available. so just let them branch as much as they want. The big problem is supporting them.

[emmy1978]

I find supporting tomatoes a nightmare. Sticks everywher, and they always fall over anyway. Maybe this should be a whole new thread!  ::)

[Robert_Brenchley]

It probably should. I staked mine carefully last year, and they ended up all in a heap like trousers round someone's ankles.

[emmy1978]

 ;D ;D ;D So glad it's not just me Robert! One year i made them fabulous frame/ support arrangement and they still all fell through it!

[Jeannine]

Hi Dandelion. I have to admit I do treat my toms. according to their variety,I prune the vine/indeterminate  ones  and I don't prune the bush,determinate ones.

Semi  means the plant will grow as a cordon/indeterminate    but it will have extra width that many of the bush/determinte ones have. I would therfore  prune it but I would not remove all the suckers but be prepared for a wider plant that will need extra support.

The determinate bush ones grow to a mature height then stop  as the growing tip ends in a flower cluster, the fruit ripen almost at the same time  or accross a small window.The plants are smaller but often bushier. Don't prune.

The indeterminate ones will continue to grow and produce fruits till frost  kills them
By removing the suckers from these plants you keep the foliage under control( they dry quicker from the rain nad dew, so are less vunerable to blight if grown outdoors, and thwy will set a later crop of larger fruit

I believe if you do not prune the ones that need pruning the fruit will be smaller and they will have job ripening later  in the season as the plant is still using energy to grow branches of greenery is doesn't need. Pinch out the side shoots/suckers when they about an inch long, andpinch out the growing tip after the 4th  truss has set fruit.

I I grow a lot of long saeson tomatoes and I would not get ripe fruit if I didn't prune.

Everyone has a differnt idea on this, this is mine.

XX Jeannine

PS Gardeners Delight,Tigerella, Ailsa Craig are inderminate. I believe Marmande also. So I would prune them all.

If you prune the ones that don't need it, your yeield will be less.

[Trevor_D]

I'm afraid I treat tomatoes like small boys: don't let them do their own thing, but keep them under control! I stake & prune all of them, but obviously with the bush toms it's less easy, so you have to go with the flow and compromise a bit. We have had serious blight problems on our site (so much so that most plot-holders had given up growing toms there) and I've found that if I let them do their own thing they flop & produce masses of shoots & foliage and succumb to blight. So I settle for more work, a slightly smaller crop, but a more certain one. I know I'm wrong, but it works for me! (And I am in the balmy south, so perhaps I've got a longer growing season that some folks.)

As for support, I use very stout canes and tie the plants in every few inches (certainly at first). But still some fall over (especially big ones like Black Russian), so this year I think I might invest in something like tree stakes for those! One of my neighbours takes pallets to bits and uses the timber. From a distance it looks like fortifications!

[Jeannine]

Trevor, you are not doing the wrong thing actually you are doing what the books suggest, I would suggest that you try not to prune your determinates  much though as they try to compensate in a different way to the  indeterminates to being pruned and consequently take longer to reach maturity which is when the bulk of your toms arrive ,so pruning them slows things down. Re your blight if you grow short season determinates you might get and edge on it. Can give yus somes names if you need them XX Jeannine

[ellkebe]

I grow the indeterminates in cold frames so that I can train them up strings to the ceiling (and pinch them out pretty strictly) - bush ones go outside as they don't need much support.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Last year Clear Pink Early did me really well, and was finished by the time the blight struck. Another good one was Taxi; it started early, and was still producing lots when it all died off.

[cambourne7]

Hi

I am planting toms with chillis in a 4 by 10 bed.

I plan on making 2 layers of twine or wool cris crossing the bed which would allow the tom and chillis to grow up and then become self supporting as they grow. Giving each plant 2ft by 2ft of space to grow and i have treated the soil with fish, blood and bone.

I have made a frame for the bed to be 3ft high which would allow me to add the rigid plastic and allow me to keep them warm if needed.

Just need the tomato/chilli plants to grow :-)

Cambourne7

[emmy1978]

I plan on making 2 layers of twine or wool cris crossing the bed which would allow the tom and chillis to grow up and then become self supporting as they grow. I have made a frame for the bed to be 3ft high which would allow me to add the rigid plastic and allow me to keep them warm if needed.


Cambourne7

Genius, consider your self robbed of an idea Cam x

[mc55]

is there a website somewhere that I can find out whether mine are bush, cordon or indeterminates (?!) .. I'm growing Cristal, Golden Sunrise, Sweet Olive (plum) and Tigerella this year.

Last year I removed all side shoots from the ones in the greenhouse, but pretty much left the ones outside to do as they wished (Ace, Juliet & ANO).  My biggest issue was the outside ones splitting every time it rained.

[Jeannine]

Cristal, Golden Sunrise, Tigeralla are all indeterminate so prune. Sweet Olive is determinate so don't.

Cordon is the same as indeteminate. eg

Vine,cordon,indeterminate mean the same thing...

Bush determinate  mean the same thing.

Sometimes the fruit split is you let them dry and water them, or if they go dry then it rains, the plants absorb and grow rapidly then split,better to water a little and often. If the soil is moist they sem to take what they need.


Some varieties split more than others.

XX Jeannine

[dandelion]

Thanks for the advice everyone! This is the first year I'm growing toms on the allotment (have grown some in the garden before).  I've been told that tomatoes tend to get blight on the allotments (though potatoes don't  ???), so I I think I will stake all my tomato plants and prune them. What would be the recommended distance between plants (considering blight could be a problem)?

[Robert_Brenchley]

If you're planting outdoors, I put mine two feet apart. Given that blight is windborne, I'm not sure that the spacing is going to affect it. When I've had outbreaks, they've all died regardless of distance.

[jennym]

As an experiment, grew some tomatoes last in home made cages. I didn't have the right size mesh - had seen someone's with squares about 4" but thought I'd have a go anyway with what I had. It worked very well, and didn't have to put in any extra support at all and will do it again this year. The variety grown was Marmande, which do tend to flop about. Here's a picture:

[Robert_Brenchley]

How easy was it to pick the toms inside the mesh?

[grawrc]

Robert I've just got your Clear Pink Early and Taxi seeds underway - thanks again- and am looking forward to beating the blight with them. ;)

[Robert_Brenchley]

Get them going as fast as you can. They did best of all last year, but I still lost the end of the Taxi crop.