Topic: Woe is me :-((

[Biscombe]

I just can´t make decent marmalade or chutney  :( :( :( after a marmalade disaster a few weeks ago I haven´t had the heart to try again until yesterday, I made lemon marmalade (more pectin than oranges??) followed the recipe to the letter ended up with lemon syrup :( :( tried the marmalade again and  :( same thing. OK, I thought, I'll have a go chutney....well......you've guessed it I made a vinegary runny mess  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
heres the recipe......... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

I used red wine vintager (too strong<????) cant get malt here!

Grandmother's Tomato Chutney

*   20 tomatoes
*   8 apples
*   3 large onions
*   2 large bell peppers -- red or green
*   1 hot chili pepper
*   1 cup seedless raisins
*   2 1/2 cups packed brown sugar
*   1 garlic clove -- crushed
*   2 teaspoons ground ginger
*   2 teaspoons ground cinnamon
*   1 teaspoon salt
*   3 1/2 cups vinegar

*This recipe is to be processed in a boiling water bath. Instructions for how to do this are with the recipe for "Tomato Jam", which is in this cookbook.

1. Scald tomatoes in boiling water, cool and peel.

2. Pare apples, peel onions, core peppers; chop all in fairly large pieces.

3. Combine all ingredients in HEAVY covered kettle or pan and simmer for about 2 hours or until mixture is thick. Stir often to prevent sticking.

4. Pour while boiling hot into hot, sterile jars. See manufacturer's directions for how to sterilize canning jars. Leave 1/4-inch of head space. Process for 10 minutes in boiling water bath.

Please help me someone  :'(

PS even bought some nice material for the lids, and the OH made me some lovely labels

[jennym]

Will try to help, but bear with me if I sound a bit precise, but it will be worth it I hope.
For the chutney:
Firstly prepare your fruit & veg, peel, de-skin, core, chop, whatever. Then weigh it.
I don't use cups, and terms like 20 tomatoes are very vague - they could be any size! But there are some fairly good rules for chutneys with proportioning sugar and vinegar. For a medium sweet chutney I would use something like 250g of 4% acidity vinegar and 150g of sugar for every 1000g of fruit/veg.
However, the water and sugar content of the fruit/veg will affect the sweetness and sloppiness of the end product. Plum tomatoes grown outdoors without irrigation tend to have less water content in them so this helps. When ingredients include veg like carrot and swede, this makes for a thicker chutney too.
Tomatoes, apples and onions have a lot of water in them, so I would cook them together first for at least half an hour until the level in the pan has dropped before re-weighing and then adding the correct proportion of vinegar & sugar. (I know what my pans weigh, so just put them on the steel scales with contents in).
The temperature is important, you really need to be cooking this at well above 85 degrees C before sugar is added - it is possible for the pan to be bubbling at temperatures of only 65 to 70 deg C, so make sure you are using the large burner on your cooker - ideally the heat output should be at least 3kw (gas or electric).
Add sugar towards the end of the cooking period and at this point be there, stirring to avoid sticking. The temperature with sugar added should reach at least 95 degrees, and be aware it may splutter, so cover arms and wear gloves.
At this point it should be thick. Ladle into sterilised, warm jars, put on lids straight away and tighten.
For marmalade, fairly foolproof, follow this.
You need oranges, white sugar, and methylated spirits,
Start one afternoon. Peel your fruit thinly with a potato peeler. Keep half the peel, cut it into whatever pieces you want in your marmalade, put it into a pan of water, simmer gently about 15 mins, throw away the water, put more water in, simmer again, throw away the water, put in a bowl in fridge in fresh water overnight. (The peel should be fairly soft at this point).
Now for the fruit, remove as much of the white pith as you can (peel off with fingers) and throw it away.
Put the fruit into the processor and whizz it for a few seconds only, until all broken up.
Weigh the fruit. For each 1000g of fruit add 2000g of water. Total weight of fruit and water is 3000g. Bring to boil, and cook at boiling for a further 30 mins. leave to cool, then store in fridge overnight.
Next day, strain the fruit through a colander, pushing the pulp with the back of a ladle, The pips and stringy bits stay in the colander, throw these away. Retain the thick juice and put into your pan.
Now do a pectin test on a small sample. Put a few sample drops of the juice in a small container. Take it well away from the pan and cooking area, then add a few drops of methylated spirits to the sample container. Do not add methylated spirits to the main pan. If pectin is present in the sample it will form a distinct jellyified blob that is separate from the meths. (If it's runny, you will need to cook the pan some more before adding sugar and repeat the test on a sample of cooled juice).
When you are happy with the pectin level, then add the peel (strain off water first) weigh the juice plus peel and for each 1000g of juice plus peel, add 1000g of sugar.
Stir over low heat to dissolve the sugar, bring up to boil and then cook at 104 degrees C for at least 5 minutes, stirring. Take pan off the heat. it will be ready when a cold ladle is dipped in and the marmalade is allowed to drip from it, you will see the last few drops from the ladle start to jellify and hang from the ladle without dropping. You will also notice that if you scrape the ladle around the inside of the pan above the marmalade, the scrapings look thick and like marmalade.
Bring the heat back up and pour into sterilised wam jars, put lids on straight away and tighten.
Hope this helps. Have made many batches using these methods.

[tim]

Who needs a guide dog when you have Jenny!

No argument with her teaching but - right or wrong - we always use 5.5% Vinegar in Chutney.

She mentions temperature. Certainly, for Marmalade, I rely totally on a thermometer. Saves time & hassle.

[Trevor_D]

Nothing much to add.... but I notice you covered your pan. I never do. Surely the liquid content needs to evaporate during cooking?

[Biscombe]

Wow Jen!! my sprits are up again and I'm ready to go again!! thanks you sooooooo much xxx  :-*

[tim]

Strange that - covered?  But old recipes usually have a good foundation?

[Biscombe]

Been into town and found some sarsons malt vinager, is this what I use??

[Biscombe]

OK sarsons has 5% acidity and the Spanish vinegar doesn't say what the percentage is, I know chutters is supposed to taste a little vinegary but the stuff I made yesterday POW!! any comments??? Come on Tim & Jen I need you!

[Trevor_D]

It always tastes vinegary when you first make it - that's why you keep it for a month or three before using it. But it shouldn't be runny as well. Try boiling it up again? (I had to do that with a batch of marmalade once because it hadn't set as well as I'd thought and it worked.)

What do the experts think?

[norfolklass]

I haven't made Rachel Allen's Spicy Tomato and Apple Chutney myself (yet) but apparently it's really easy.
OH's mum made some and brought it last time they visited and it was delishus!

http://uktv.co.uk/index.cfm/uktv/food.recipe/aid/573902

can't help with vinegar advice though, I'm afraid.

[bennettsleg]

Also make sure you're using a good quality, thick bottomed pan with no hot spots.  This makes a huge difference to temperature diffusion and control. 

Invest in a sugar thermometer.
Do not try to do other things at the same time.  The stuff that's boiling away is your prioity.
Allow plenty of time, don't turn it off at night and try to start things up again in the morning. If you do do this, don't tell your Mum that you've wasted the pick of her harvest, rush out ,buy more ingredients and try again and keep schtum forever more...  :-[

If pectin is needed, I've always collected the apple peel and core into a muslin bag, tied it with long string (one end for tightly closing the bag, the other for tying to the pan handle/other) and chucked the bag in at the beginning so all the pectin in the skin (where most of it lurks) is incormporated.  You can squash the bag throughout the cooking period and before removing, but I hear this tends to make the jam cloudy. For intermittent jam makers like me, cloudy doesn't matter - set texture does!

[Biscombe]

Thanks all! will try again,  anymore tried and tested recipies out there? got a glut of oranges and lemons!

[Biscombe]

It always tastes vinegary when you first make it - that's why you keep it for a month or three before using it.

Wel, tarted up the jars It does not look quite so runny, Trev very encouraging words about maturing, mayebe it will be ok then!!

And thanks bennettsleg  :-* good points

[jennym]

Nothing much to add.... but I notice you covered your pan. I never do. Surely the liquid content needs to evaporate during cooking?

Trevor, yes, never cover my pan, the water content does need to go down.

[jennym]

Also make sure you're using a good quality, thick bottomed pan with no hot spots.  This makes a huge difference to temperature diffusion and control. 

Invest in a sugar thermometer.
Do not try to do other things at the same time.  The stuff that's boiling away is your prioity.
Allow plenty of time, don't turn it off at night and try to start things up again in the morning. If you do do this, don't tell your Mum that you've wasted the pick of her harvest, rush out ,buy more ingredients and try again and keep schtum forever more...  :-[

If pectin is needed, I've always collected the apple peel and core into a muslin bag, tied it with long string (one end for tightly closing the bag, the other for tying to the pan handle/other) and chucked the bag in at the beginning so all the pectin in the skin (where most of it lurks) is incormporated.  You can squash the bag throughout the cooking period and before removing, but I hear this tends to make the jam cloudy. For intermittent jam makers like me, cloudy doesn't matter - set texture does!

Can't argue with any of that bennettsleg  :) 
The temperature diffusion & control bit is dead right, have a good look at the pan Biscombe, I guess that around 8mm min is the thickness you should be looking for to avoid burning and ensure good heat diffusion.
It's easy to wander off when you're busy, but DON'T.
Also, yes, don't tell anyone you wasted what they gave you, least of all dear mother. (But being a nit picky sort of person, I spell  it stumm  ;D )
I make some pectin blocks for use anytime - boil up apple, cores, peel, all, in a saucepan with some water, then rub through a sieve, put the resulting puree into ice cube trays or small tupperware boxes, and freeze. Better fresh, but frozen works ok.

[jennym]

Thanks all! will try again,  anymore tried and tested recipies out there? got a glut of oranges and lemons!

You can follow the instructions in my first post for lemon, orange or grapefuit marmalade. A nice combination I found recently is Ruby grapefruit and lime.

[jennym]

It always tastes vinegary when you first make it - that's why you keep it for a month or three before using it. But it shouldn't be runny as well. Try boiling it up again? ......

Must admit I disagree with the statement about chutney always tasting vinegary when you first make it, if you mean that it tastes acidic, this won't disappear during storage. If you re-boil chutney that tastes vinegary, probably the taste will improve because some of the acid in the vinegar is escaping with the steam.

The best thing of all  to do, in order to avoid runny chutneys, is to reduce the water content in the chutney by cooking the fruit and veg down BEFORE adding vinegar and sugar. This avoids burning of sugar and losing acidity from the vinegar. This may seem contradictory, but you do need to vinegar in the chutney to provide the increased acidity for it to keep well, and avoid bacterial growth - but at the same time have to strike a balance with taste.

[bennettsleg]

But being a nit picky sort of person, I spell  it stumm  ;D )

I had a mild hangover...

On Tuesday morning...

Yes, a Tuesday...

I know, I know....  ::)

I would've tutted and shaken my head, too, if it was possible.  AND a large workload to get through.  Not good.

Feel better now that the drugs have kicked in...!

[jennym]

I had a mild hangover...

On Tuesday morning...

Yes, a Tuesday...

I know, I know....  ::)

You do know it's Wednesday today ??   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

[tim]

Biscombe - do you have a pressure cooker??