Topic: HELP! I'm new to this

[Laurdan]

Can anyone advise me?  I have decided to take on an allotment with two others.

The plot has not been used for sometime.  It is just wild grass at the moment, how would you recommend we start.  Firstly we have to get rid of the grass, any suggestions?  Should I use roundup?  I have been told to mow the grass and then use roundup, I am concerned that this may not be a good idea for a vegetable plot.  All suggestions greatly appreciated.

[sally_cinnamon]

Hi and welcome to A4A!  Lots of helpful peeps on here to give advice, also use the search function to look for answers on similar posts...

I've just taken on an overgrown lottie so am probably in similar boat - do you have any pics to show us?  My friendly plot neighbours have recently sprayed my grassy plot with roundup, they said its the only one they allow on the site.  It took just over a week to start working and now most of the grass is yellow and dead and ready for raking up.  I would recommend it as otherwise you will be digging for quite a while!  At first I didn't want to have it sprayed but now I have and it will be giving me a great headstart, much needed at this time of year!

 :)

[Laurdan]

Is roundup harmful to the produce that I will hopefully grow on the plot afterwards?

[bumble-dee]

not sure,laurdan, but i thought it became inactive in the soil once it has been taken up by the stuff you want to get rid of, if that makes sense! :)

[Laurdan]

thank you

[Tee Gee]

For all intents and purposes it is safe for what you are planning.

I am led to believe it leaves a small salt deposit, but providing you are not using it continuously this is negligable and does no harm.

I will point out one application is unlikely to kill off the most pernicious weeds eg Dandelion, Dock, Couch & Nettles but it may weaken them.

The best way to get rid of these is to dig them out.

A note on application times, it is best applied when the weeds are young and growing fast. It needs to be applied in dry weather or at least a couple of hours before rain so that the active ingredients have time to dry into the plants system.

[David P]

hello there, it all depends if you want to be a totally organic garden.  Its hard and sometimes demoralising when bugs or diseases get your crops, but knowing that no chemicals etc are being used on them is so so good.  Hard work but get digging

dave P

[onionhead]

Roundup can be appealing to new plot holders (I was tempted!) but it's not as safe as Monsanto would like gardeners to think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/GTARW.php

[jennym]

Roundup can be appealing to new plot holders (I was tempted!) but it's not as safe as Monsanto would like gardeners to think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/GTARW.php

I hope you are aware that neither of the websites shown can be said to be truly objective in their views.
Whilst it can be understood that very few people would choose to use a substance that may be harmful, a balanced decision must be taken. Like all manufactured compounds, there can be danger if manufacturer's instructions are not followed. Similar environmental dangers and dangers to human life can be said to apply to many activities that take place on allotments, like for example, the burning of waste vegetable products and scrap wood, particularly hardwood, the use of plastics as ground coverings, the handling and storage of animal manures, horticultural fleece, etc, etc - the list is endless if you really examine the production processes and carcinogenic effects oif these substances and activities.
I post this only as a balance to the views stated by onionhead, and post it as a holder of a pesticide licence who is reluctant to, and rarely actually uses, any pesticides at all, but who tries to make herself aware of the entire picture of how our activities affect things.

[onionhead]

Yep, fair dos. Slightly missing the point, though, which is this: Monsanto appears to have gone out of its way to suppress concerns about the potential risks of Roundup, not only regarding soil contamination but towards human health as well. (This is, after all, the multi-billion dollar company which brought us agent orange and pioneered terminator seeds and other GM crops.)

It's difficult to make a balanced decision when not all the facts or dangers are known.

[ACE]

I hold a certificate for applying pesticides/weedkillers and such. We used to use some deadly stuff which is now been banned, but anything you buy over the counter should now be okay. Roundup is very safe providing you apply it sensibly. It neutalises when it touches the soil and will only affect the plants, we had to carry a bag of fine soil, just in case we were stupid enough to put it in our mouths then we were supossed to eat the soil to stop it doing any damage.

Please read and understand the instructions, don't add 'one for the pot'. The dilution rates have been worked out very carefully and will work. Tougher weeds might need 'spotting'.

If you are next to other plots. clear it with your neighbours first as they might be fully organic and even the slightest breeze can drift it .

Most important, try and find out if anybody has weedkilled it in the last year, you never know if somebody has used a bit of stuff from the back of their shed, it might not have even worked, but could still be lurking. KEEP A RECORD.

[Laurdan]

Thank you all so much for your help and ideas.

I yesterday sprayed into my allotment 'Roundup'.  I shall now wait 1-2 weeks to see how it goes.  It was a beautiful day and I followed the instructions strictly.

I have arranged to use a rotivator for the next hurdle of banishing the wild grass.

Again any ideas always welcome.

Once again thank you all.  :)

[Tee Gee]

Ahhhhhhhh!! the joys of gardening  ;D

I have enjoyed reading this thread and the various points of view wish such facilities had been about when I started up!

Just think of ; DDT, Paraquat, Temik, Nicotine, Calomel dust, Benlate, Chlorophos just to name a few

Ahhhhh!! these were the days!! 8)

[Jeannine]

Oh Tee Gee , when we bought out the old guy next door to us when he had to give up we actually found Paraquat, fortunately I am not so young and I knew what it was. We had a dickens of job finding someplace to take it. It had to have been 30 years old!!!

 XX Jeannine

[telboy]

Laurdan,
Don't know where you are situated, but support the use of Glyphosate in your position with starting your plot. However, depending on your weather conditions, it may take six weeks for it to be effective - so please be patient.

[Laurdan]

I am in St Albans, Herts.

I went over to the allotment today.  Nothing has changed.   :( :(

The grass is the same colour.  It has not yet been a week but I thought I may have seen a small change.

I know I must be patient, but I thought the grass may have gone slightly yellow?????

[scotch-mist]

my oh used what he called 'gramoxin'(spelling) in the yard,next to my veggie garden a few months ago >:(
      I have now cleared the veggies out and dumped them and refuse to grow anything this year to eat >:(

anybody ever heard of this stuff ???

[kt.]

Not sure about ROUNDUP but for DEEP-ROOT you need to wait 6 weeks before planting. It is a similar product so I would suggest to read the small-print on the packaging. ;)

[jennym]

my oh used what he called 'gramoxin'(spelling) in the yard,next to my veggie garden a few months ago >:(
      I have now cleared the veggies out and dumped them and refuse to grow anything this year to eat >:(

anybody ever heard of this stuff ???

Gramoxone 100 - contains paraquat. It is only legally available for use by those licensed to apply pesticides. Gramoxone is being withdrawn and will be illegal to have stocks of it after 31/12/07.
Here's the manufacturer's product safety guide.
http://www.syngenta-crop.co.uk/PG/GRAMOXONE100/

[jennym]

Not sure about ROUNDUP but for DEEP-ROOT you need to wait 6 weeks before planting. It is a similar product so I would suggest to read the small-print on the packaging. ;)

"Deep Root" comes in many different types, some of which contain glyphosate and some ammonium sulphamate. NO Deep Root product is approved for use on edible plants, so it should not be used where you intend to grow foodstuffs.