Topic: Tomatoes - Is it terminal?

[Moggle]

I have browny-black spots on the lower leaves of my tomatoes. They are outside on the sheltered balcony. Will attach photos.

Is it terminal? Will they pull through? Is there anything I can do with them at this point, or should i chuck them and start again  :'( :'( :'(





Haven't used any fleece or cover, cause I thought they would be sheltered enough.

[tim]

Haven't a clue - but, because the rest looks so healthy, I would nip off the offending leaves & see what the future brings. = Tim

[Multiveg]

Just looked in dr hessayon's expert book - purplish brown mould patches appear on underside of the foliage & the upper surface bears yellowish patches - is tomato leaf mould and starts on the lower leaves first - just remove the affected leaves (and according to the book, spray with carbendazim). Says ventilate the greenhouse for prevention.... Brown patches on upper surface could be the dreaded blight.

[tim]

Moggle - as I said, don't know - but, with respect, would have thought it a bit premature to spray??
 = Tim

PS Sorry about the writing - my pen is terminal!! If you can't read it, I'll e-mail it to you?

[Moggle]

Many Thanks Tim and Multiveg.

The spots are more purple brown than brown, but not a different colour on the top.  :-\

Thanks for the extract Tim, I can make out most of it  :)

And it is on the lower leaves only at present. I would think that the balcony is pretty well ventillated, being open on one side, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to prevent any further damage.

So will remove affected leaves, and pray for the best. All leaves on some lower stems seem to be affected. Should I remove those stems altogether?

[tim]

I would! = Tim

If you missed something on the extract, I'll PM it.

[Ceri]

It may be a completely different sort of black dot of course, but I had this on four plants, in separate areas of the house - dots turned to purple bits, other parts of the leaf turned yellow, and mosaic virus looking, edges of the leaves have curled and dried - so I binned them.  One of the trays of basil next to the toms also caught the black spot - almost like a pitting on the leaf surface, I've quarantined these to see what happens - hasn't got worse yet.

[cleo]

I would just take off any dead leaves and see how you get on,it`s probably just that they are not happy to be out so early.

Stephan.

[tim]

 hoo-ray!! = Tim

[ina]

If they were mine, I would cut off all but the top few leaves and bury the stem almost to the top leaves in an upright growbag or as deep as you can, almost to the bottom of the bag (make some holes in the bags about 5 cm above the bottom). Your plants are a bit leggy anyway and the stem in the soil will grow nice new roots.

I sowed my tomatoes a bit early, the ones for the lottie I planted in the soil of the greenhouse last weekend. The ones for the balcony at home I wanted to wait with putting outside in growbags till the weather warmed a bit. Lo and behold, the last ones are starting to bloom on the window sill so I better get them into the growbags and out on the balcony.

[tim]

Not exactly in context - but how do folk get toms to bloom before planting out? This is what the books say.

And WHY, this year, are all of my plants leggy, & some a pale 10" tall?? 6-8", & strong green, yes - but not these wispy things.

Oh, well - they are going out now, anyway. = Tim

[ina]

No idea Tim, I always wondered about that too until I saw the blooms yesterday morning. Probably have to sow them real early and wait long before planting out, eventually they will bloom I guess but what's the use?

[Moggle]

Ok thanks Ina, I'll plant as deeply as I can. Might not be able to manage the half-growbag, but I'll do my best.

You couldn't post a photo of your flowering toms could you? I don't think I've ever seen tomatoes growing before now, and definitely not in flower, and I feel a bit stupid for not even knowing where the flowers form.  :-\

Operation 'Leaf Removal' will start tonight, and I'll post again to update on my progress.

[ina]

Here's a picture (thanks to google), they grow where the leaves join the stem when the plant is mature, with intervals of three leaves (I think).



Ps: Thinking about it, now I'm not sure if they do grow where the leaves join the stem or above it. Somebody will surely know but I just can't remember.

[john_miller]

They grow in between the leaves, Ina. What grows where the leaves join the stem are the side shoots. Just as a point of information for the new gardeners: the shoot that grows in the leaf joint immediately below the trusses is fed by the same vascular 'threads' as feed the trusses. Experiment has shown that if these shoots are not removed (although the others are)  production is decreased by 50%, due to nutrient competition.
Moogle, your plants are very drawn (etiolated) and pale. I would suspect that you have grown them 'soft', being too warm initially, and that your ventilating them outside in too cold air has caused cell death (it is only showing up now though). Also, can you get some nitrogen into them to darken them up?

[Moggle]

So the flowers grow from the main stem between the leaves?

John, I expect that your analysis is fairly right. The spare room that I grew them in was very warm, and I started putting them outside a couple of weeks ago during our warm weather, which has since turned a bit chilly.  :(

To avoid this in future, do I try to keep them cooler as seedlings? Should they have had more time to harden off?  

As to nitrogen, I have miracle grow, which is something like 15:30:10, would that do, or do I really need to go out and buy something else? I'd rather not get anything else unless its essential.

Thanks Ina for the pic. I transplanted 2 de-leafed plants last night in to half grow bags, then got too cold outside, so I'll try to do the others tonight.

...later

I've just had a thought, would it be pointless at this stage to bring a couple back inside? There is one plant that doesn't seem to be affected at all by the spots. I have a couple of larger pots that they could go in to. The only reason I put them outside so early is because they were getting so big, and I didn't have loads of bigger pots. (I really am clueless aren't I?)

[john_miller]

Yes, keep them cooler if you can and they should have had longer to harden off. The problem is that with every year being different there is no fixed rules or guidelines as to when or for how long.
Your Miracle-gro is very high in phosphorous (P). P is needed in high quantities when plants are young (it is mostly used in new tissue formation- as the plant matures and enlarges it is able to access sufficent without heavy additions from you). At the very least you need to switch to a fertiliser high in potassium when you plant outside. Well fertilised ground may be able to supply enough nitrogen, when supplemented by a product such as Tomorite, that you should be able to avoid buying more fertilisers.
Now that they have hardened off I would leave them where they are. Bringing some back inside may well precipitate similar problems taking them back out- especially given the vagaries of the U.K. climate!

[tim]

Left - how it should be done.

Right - too rushed to re-soak the soil, & the hole wouldn't stay deep.

Patience!! = Tim

[ina]

Oh Tim, that looks fan-tas-tic!!!!
Can't wait for the season to get on and get pictures with the tomatoes on.

[Doris_Pinks]

Err Tim, just wondering, what on earth do you do with ALL the tomatoes you get??!!  DP