Topic: Wacko Backo

[cornykev]

Hi Baccyman,    Just wondering about the whole process, friends at work smoke GV and OH and have asked if I grow any, I just took it as a joke, didn't think you could grow it so could you please  enLIGHTen  me.

[Merry Tiller]

My Grandpa used to grow it in his conservatory, back in the 1950's

[jaggythistle]

    HOW TO GROW TOBACCO

Growing your own tobacco is so easy and not dissimilar to growing tomatoes.

Place commercial seedling compost into a tray and soak the soil with water and allow the excess water to drain off. Sprinkle the tobacco seeds onto the surface of the damp soil. Do not cover the seeds, as they need light for germination. Tobacco seeds are very tiny, so be careful to spread the seeds as evenly as possible. Keep the soil damp being careful not to wash the seeds around when you water; better still use a mist sprayer.

Start the seeds 4-6 weeks before the last frost, making sure they are kept warm during this period and not allowed to dry out. A typical propagator is ideal. At a temperature of 75-80 degrees, seeds typically take a matter of days to germinate; though at this stage they are still rather small. At lower temperatures, the germination simply takes a few days longer.

Plantlets are ready to be transplanted into bigger pots, when the leaves are about 1cm in length. Plant outside after all danger of frost is past. Care should be taken not to disturb the roots. Feed should only be given to established and rapidly growing plants after they have been replanted.Tobacco requires a lot of nitrogen and potash, which can be supplied using standard garden fertiliser. You may want to grow your tobacco using only organic fertilisers.

Ideally, space the tobacco plants about 2 ft. apart in rows 3 ft. apart. Transplant outside in the evening or when it is cloudy and overcast to avoid the youngsters from drying out. Water plants thoroughly after transplanting and water daily until plants become established. Like tomato plants, the branches (suckers, offshoots), should be removed to focus the plants energy on the large leaves.

Tobacco plants require full sun to grow properly; partial shaded areas will produce a more slender leaf (as opposed to a broad one). Tobacco can be ready to harvest for curing about 90 days after germinating.

Typically, the flowers, which appear at the top of the plant towards the end of the plants life, are removed for tobacco production. Contrary to common belief, tobacco can and does grow in the colder regions of the world, including the UK and Europe.

Tobacco Seed customers receive with each purchase a step by step leaflet on how to grow, dry and cure tobacco, together with a "WILL GROW" guarantee. You cannot go wrong. If for any reason your seeds fail to germinate, we promise to replace your order free of charge or hassle.

[saddad]

It was apparently grown as a field crop in the south west in the 18thCentury until the excise men stamped it out!
 ;D

[Baccy Man]

There are a couple of legal points to bear in mind if you grow tobacco.
Anyone can grow & cure as much tobacco as they want (see pic below my username) however as soon as it is made into a smokable state eg: shredded or rolled into cigars it becomes liable for duty but HM customs & excise do not have a collection system in place for revenue from homegrown tobacco so they cant accept any payments so you have to commit tax evasion or whatever they call it but no action will be taken against you as there is no way you could pay the tax even if you wanted to.

If you sell your tobacco or even if you give it away you could end up in prison or at least get a hefty fine because homegrown tobacco can only be smoked by members of the household of the person growing it. Before it can be smoked by someone else it has to have the tar & nicotine levels tested the plants have to be certified disease free everything grown has to be acounted for including all parts of the plant not used and various other reasons I can't be bothered listing.

You get an average of 4oz of finished tobacco (or 100 cigarettes if you use a tube maching to make them) from each plant grown once all the costs are factored in my tobacco works out at less than 2p per ounce to produce so there is a significant saving on shop prices.

Commercially produced tobacco can contain 600 chemicals including 37 proved to be carcinogenic these chemicals can form over 4000 chemical compounds when they are burnt. If you hold a cigarette against a blacklight it will glow with all the radioactive crap in it.
Homegrown tobacco contains whatever you decide you want to put in it, smoking it will still kill you but it will take longer.

Jaggythistle I recognise those instructions if you buy seeds don't use that company they charge £3 for 50 seeds other places only charge £2.50 for 200+ seeds.
There are a few mistakes in those instructions seeds can be sown from Feb-Apr they should be surface sown but they should be covered with a sheet of paper until they germinate that way they will germinate within 48 hours rather than 2-3 weeks the paper should be removed after germination or they will bolt.

Seedlings should be watered from below to encourage root development.

Planted out in June after the last frost.

Tobacco is very adaptable it will grow in any type of soil as long as it is not waterlogged it will pick up flavours from the soil so if you decide to dig in a load of manure for fertiliser then use well rotted manure the autumn before planting otherwise your tobacco will taste of it.

Spacing varies according to the variety you are growing there are over 70 varieties I know of. This year most of my plants will be spaced 18"-24" apart but one variety will have 4' between plants because it has 50" leaves.

Sun or shade makes no difference to the quantity of tobacco you will get, cigar tobacco is often grown in the shade to produce long thin leaves for wrappers.

All tobacco plants are self fertile so you only 1 of each variety needs to be left for seed production the rest should be topped so considerably thicker leaves are produced.

Harvested in Sep-Oct If the frost catches it your crop will be ruined so you want it all in before the frost hits in November.

I will explain the curing process later if there is any interest in the subject. If anyone wants to give it a go I always have seed to spare if you want to do a seed swap I am interested in anything that can be eaten or fermented I don't usually grow plants for decoration.

[cornykev]

Explain on Baccy Man you have got me interested now, I am a non smoker but it interests me because I imagined it grown in very hot countries. ;D ;D ;D ;D

[marestail murderer]

yes..........i too am interested in this................may plant a spare bed up to see how it goes........where do you get the seed from baccy man?

[grogirl]

 :) hi all, my first post! just wanted to ask which variety you would recomend? i grew golden virginia last year for my other half which was very sucessfull in terms of quantity, however my oh wasn't too keen on it as he found it too 'light'? i was wondering if you think that this was down to the strain or how i attempted to dry/cure the leaves?  ??? thank you gg x x x

[bunjies]

i'm interested as i am a dirty filthy rollie smoker ;D
oh the savings i could have :D joy! elation! etc!

[Baccy Man]

Grogirl I suggest you grow either a cigar or pipe variety as well & start experimenting with blending for example 90% virginia + 10% Havana or 60% Virginia 40% Monte Calme Brun will both give a stronger tasting tobacco or you could grow something really strong like Rustica or Knightiana & use about 5% in the mix. As I have already said there are over 70 varieties I know of all can be blended in different proportions to give different flavours. When you start blending write down what you put in each blend so you can repeat it it is easy to forget & can be very hard to recreate something if you don't have it written down. You should also bare in mind that the taste of your tobacco will mature with time a bit like wine does, always grow too much so you can store some away for a few years.

As i've already said I can provide seed if needed if you want to buy them I would reccomend the following companies:

http://www.coffinails.com/order.html
These seeds ship with the best instructions for growing & curing tobacco you will see anywhere on the net, prices include shipping worldwide.

http://www.newhopeseed.com/tobacco/tobacco_seed_varieties.htm
They will be adding a lot of new varieties soon as you can see from the website.

http://www.tabakanbau.de/de/
A good range of seeds but you need to be able to read German to navigate the site.

http://www.edirectory.co.uk/chilternseeds/
Chiltern seeds have 6 varieties of smoking tobacco

There are plenty of other companies if you search around but these I have dealt with personally & would reccommend. There are always seeds on ebay but I would advise caution as there are people selling tobocco growing kits over 20 years out of date & seeds which turn out to be a completely different variety to what they claim I am sure there are genuine sellers as well but I wouldn't take the risk.

http://www.thetobaccoseed.com/
This is the company Jaggythistle copied the growing info from I haven't ordered from them & think they are expensive but they do offer a good selection.
______________________________________________________________

Okay onto curing. This is the bit where people get confused because the word curing can mean lots of different things. It may seem complicated until you have done it for yourself but I will explain the different types of curing first then explain what I do.

1. Colour curing,  Tobacco farmers refer to the drying of the leaf as curing. Just hanging it on canes or galvanised wire to dry gradually. It does not involve any fermenting or sweating of the leaf. This could be done with individual leaves or you could hang the complete plant it will just take longer if you hang the whole plant.

1a. Sweating to colour cure, This process is a risky one, it involves making a heap of the leaf placing the end of the stem to the outside edge. Never use this method if you have already slit the leaf for cane hanging or with damaged leaves, as the sap will act like acid on the good leaves & you'll end up with compost.
You build up a pile of leaves and wrap in a cloth and leave for 24 hours, open the stack and allow any moisture to dry off. Now rebuild the stack with the previous inner ones now on the outer, the heat from the natural fermentation will gradually remove the green and speed up the colour change in the leaf.
Repeat the process over 5 days until all leaves are yellow and then hang to dry.

2. Fermenting also called sweating, This is the process by which ammonia is released from the leaf to make it smokable.  It can be done by heaping the (already colour cured) tobacco into large piles called pilones that raise the temperature and humidity or by use of a kiln (curing chamber) with a heater and humidifier.  Under the raised temperature and humidity enzymes in the leaf cause it to ferment.  It is not necessary to spray a fermenting solution on the leaf as some suggest.  The enzymes will do it naturally. Sometimes this is also refered to as curing.

3. Air curing,  This is simply drying (curing) the leaf by hanging it in the open air, usually in a barn.  It usually takes about two months.  It produces a brown, tan or red leaf with almost no sugars in it.

4. Flue curing,  This is drying a leaf quickly after the leaf has turned yellow and before it can turn brown.  The temperatures of the flue curing barn are slowly raised and can go as high as 170 degrees F.  It takes about one week.  It produces a leaf that is yellow or orange and is high in sugars.  It is possible that the small home made kilns used by home growers could flue cure a leaf if you could safely raise the temperature high enough and vent the humidity from the drying leaf out of the kiln.

I personally prefer method 1a (stacking the leaves) to colour cure as it is faster and always works but it does need very careful monitoring.
I then dry the leaves on galvanised wire strung between the rafters in the attic then leave them until I am ready to ferment the leaves in my homemade curing chamber.
My curing chamber is basically the one described in the instructions you get when you order seeds from coffinails it is a box 6'x4'x4' made of 2" polystyrene flooring insulation which I paid  £5.25 per 8x4 sheet from the local builders merchants taped together with double sided carpet tape, for the heat source I use a 2KW (2000w) oil filled radiator on which i have replaced the thermostat with a hot water cylinder thermostat so I can get it up to 120°F-130°F I have a Bionaire Warm Mist Humidifier BWM5700 £25 on ebay to add moisture and a comination digital thermometer/hygrometer to monitor the temperature & humidity & there is a 2" pipe sticking out the top to allow the excess moisture escape. There are a load of canes inside which I hang the tobacco from I keep an eye on it topping up the water in the humidifier as needed then after it has been in the chamber at around 120°F with 70% humidity for about 4-5 weeks the smell of the tobacco changes from an unpleasant (kinda like grass clippings) to a sweet smell. This means it is ready so it comes out of the chamber is hung up to dry completely then stored until I need to cut some up to smoke it.


I have looked at alternatives to the oil heater for the curing chamber, industrial heaters which are designed to operate in a humid environment specifically, & the most promising I have come up with so far is:
A silicone mat heater approximately 900mm x 900mm x 0.8mm
230 Volts 1000 Watts with a thermocouple attached to the heater mat. This heater would be laid in the bottom of your chamber on insulation so as not to have the floor absorb the heat. The power cable and thermocouple could be terminated to a temperature controller & you may want to have a second thermocouple located in the middle of the chamber so as to sense the air temperature and not the heater mat.
Unfortunately the cheapest quote I have had so far is in the region of £500 & I would have to buy it as parts then wire it up myself which is simple enough for me but as some people struggle to replace a thermostat this may be a problem for others. If anyone else has any suggestions for a heater which would be suitable then let me know your ideas basically the rule is is no flames no fumes & anything electrical needs to be sealed.

I shall leave it here for now if you have any more questions then ask.

[Baccy Man]

I forgot to add that tobacco is related to tomatoes & potatoes bear that in mind when you are working out crop rotations, tobacco can be grown in the same bed for 2 years running if needed but definitely no more than that or there will be a risk of disease setting in & the nutrients in the soil will be depleted.

Merry Tiller the reason your Grandpa grew it in the 50's was probably because during the first & second world wars people were actively encouraged to do so as it was difficult to get things imported many people carried on after the war ended once they found out how easy it was to produce.

To cut your tobacco I would suggest you get a tobacco press from the company below I have one & it is very simple to use, you will need a 6" vice not 10" as they say you can use a clamp but it is difficult to get the blocks in straight. Then once you press your tobacco you just need a sharp knife & a bit of practice to cut it as fine as GV or any other hand rolling tobacco. The press is about £28 & the price includes 1lb of tobacco to practice with postage is reasonable & you can always order some extra tobacco to keep you going until your crop is ready prices start at about £6.50 per lb or if you order more than 5lbs you get a 20% discount on that taking it to about £5.20 per lb.

http://grandadtobacco.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23&osCsid=baea75cd04cbd7323103b329cf91cc36

You may also see the "Cuthof tobacco shredder" advertised do not buy it the bearings are plastic & they melt after a very short time it is a complete waste of money.

I also have a couple of tobacco shredders made in the 40's or 50's they come up from time to time on ebay & are usually still in working order as things were built to last then.

[baggieboy]

Hi,

 When kids and GF are asleep i take time out and go on balcony for one of my jamaican woodbines. I now i can't grow this type of baccy on my allotment but would love to grow some bacca...Me also thought it was only grown in hot countries

[fluffygrue]

If I smoked I'd certainly grow my own.. Surely organically-grown tobacco must be slightly better for you than the heavily sprayed commercially-grown stuff?

[Baccy Man]

If I smoked I'd certainly grow my own.. Surely organically-grown tobacco must be slightly better for you than the heavily sprayed commercially-grown stuff?

Organic tobacco doesn't glow under a blacklight as most of the radiation in commercial cigarettes is from the fertiliser build up, most tobacco farmers don't rotate their crops they just use tons of chemical fertiliser to attempt to replenish the soil. Additive free is another good thing to look out for as you just get the tobacco not all the chemicals normally put in it you can get 'American Spirit' additive free tobacco in most places now it tastes very similar to homegrown.

[cornykev]

Thanks for that Baccy Man most interesting, like fluff said if I was a smoker I would give it a go but it sounds complected but thanks for the info, I just had visions of it only being able to grow in countries like Cuba.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

If it's related to potatoes and toms, does it get blight?

[Baccy Man]

If it's related to potatoes and toms, does it get blight?

It is possible Tobacco Mosaic Virus as well  but I have never had any kind of problem with diseased plants.

[grogirl]

thank you for that very informative post! i will take some time to look over those links and have a think which varieties for next year. thank you gg x x

[supersprout]

Additive free is another good thing to look out for as you just get the tobacco not all the chemicals normally put in it you can get 'American Spirit' additive free tobacco in most places now it tastes very similar to homegrown.

I'm going to give them a try Baccyman, thank you for the tip

[Baccy Man]

I thought I bring this up again to remind those people that are giving it a go this year it is time to get your seeds started mine are already germinated.
There is an article in Kitchen Garden magazine out tomorrow by Bob Flowerdew describing how to grow your own tobacco if you want to read someone elses ideas on the subject.