Topic: Organic

[ACE]

I was listening to news 24 this morning and somebody has now said there are no benefits from eating organic, they say there is no difference between organic and the ordinary stuff you get off the shelfs in a supermarket.

Err, did they taste it for a start, or just put it through laboratory tests?

What about the 'additives' or chemicals that are sprayed on everything?

I think this is the mass producers worrying about the share of the market that is going over to organic. I expect they are trying to influence those that are on the edge, lets hope they do not believe the lies.

I am not strictly organic, but I know what I am eating, and definately what I am tasting.

These very same people tried to tell us that genetic farming would not be harmful.

Profit, profit, profit is all they care about, but very short sighted about it as healthier people tend to live longer which means more cash spent.

Also while I'm on my soapbox, did anybody hear about the amount of food crops ending up in landfill because of the supermarkets cancelling orders or just ordering too much. I know we all grow more than we need to, but I expect, like me you give it away, or compost it for another crop. But just tipping it in landfill makes my blood boil.

[Larkspur]

I didn't hear the report about tipping food into landfill sites ACE but it sounds incredible >:(. How can anyone morally justify such an action?. Can't they give it away, even if it is only for composting?. In a world where there is so much poverty and starvation such an action is depicable :(.

[Merry Tiller]

I wonder if it's possible to taste the difference between organic & non-organic stuff grown side by side, in the same conditions & by the same grower, I have a feeling it would be difficult, if not impossible

[Hyacinth]

MT, there was certainly a difference between my carrots (roughly washed, never peeled) and the carrots I bought from the 'premium' range (ie not Organic status) of a well-known S'market which I gave the same treatment....I definitely suffered from chemical poisoning, and this lack of sprays for me is the biggest benefit. I may be sharing my apple with a little grub who's eating his way out of the thing (cheeky b***er) but I never have to faff around peeling the apple first.

[Spruance]

I think it was our illustrious Environment Secretary David Miliband who put his foot in it and spoke out of turn on the benefits of organic produce. Of all people he should surely know better.

As for supermarkets contributing to landfill with cancelled or over ordered foods, I seem to remember seeing something on TV last year about a charitable organisation - in London I think - that uses this type of surplus to provide meals for homeless people. Surely the supermarkets could organise something along these lines in other parts of the country.

On a personal level, I always seems to have a surplus of - organically grown - tomatoes and runner beans, oh and sweet peas. These are given away to friends and neighbours. I don't ask for anything in return but inevitably receive bags of plums, apples, pears etc. Nothing is wasted.

[Merry Tiller]

MT, there was certainly a difference between my carrots (roughly washed, never peeled) and the carrots I bought from the 'premium' range (ie not Organic status) of a well-known S'market which I gave the same treatment

Yes, there's no doubt about that but what if they were grown by the same person under the same conditions, would they taste different?

[okra]

I try to grow organically as possible and cannot believe eating combinations of chemicals can do us any good. Although each chemical is tested seperately for safety - what about tests for the cocktail of chemicals we injest each day.

Did anybody else read the case of the two identical twins, one child ate a normal diet and the other an organic and addtive/preservative free one. After a period the latter IQ registered higher in tests and there was also  a noticeable difference in behaiviour.

[Hyacinth]

MT, there was certainly a difference between my carrots (roughly washed, never peeled) and the carrots I bought from the 'premium' range (ie not Organic status) of a well-known S'market which I gave the same treatment

Yes, there's no doubt about that but what if they were grown by the same person under the same conditions, would they taste different?

MT I can accept that they might taste the same but the nauseous, headache-y, stomach cramping pains afterwards were quite unique - to the chemical sprayed ones. :(

[Merry Tiller]

Yes, I quite agree about the chemicals but what I'm wondering is wether the veg would taste different

[Garjan]

But MT, when are the circumstances completely similar? As soon as you apply chemical fertilisers and/or pesticides you change the conditions. Same so when you apply organic stuff, by the way, so growing organically or not is growing under different circumstances.

As to taste: I think that it is possible to grow non-organic vegs that taste the same as organic vegs. The problem is, however, that organic crops are less reliable and do not always meet the demand (and waste!) of the mainstream market.
The Netherlands is exporting tomatoes since the sixties and needed industrial production of the fruits. In the long run our tomatoes became red waterbombs without taste. It is only since the Germans boycotted our produce because of taste and chemicals that our growers started to produce on a smaller scale, using less pesticides and growth stimulating chemicals.

This is a bit off track, but what I want to say is that non-organic food is for mass production. And I would condone that, if these vegs were eaten and no one had to go hungry. But as it is, we mass produce and feed it to the pigs or dump it in landfills. Mass production of food at this moment is to keep prices low and demands high, but only in our part of the world.

[emmy1978]

I totally agree ace, tipping food on landfill a disgusting thing to do. Also does anyone know why supermarkets feel the need to overpackage their organic ranges? You can buy normal apples loose but the organic are always packaged up in bags or polystyrene trays. This to me is so strange.
I buy all my fruit and veg from my local grocer and his organic are truly knobbly lumpy and dirty but taste great. Can't wait to get lottie going so we can eat all our own produce.
Although a lot of the time allotment grown produce not wholly organic but 'naturally' grown it  tastes amazing. When we had little garden I grew spuds and any given away always came back with comments of wow!real potato taste!!

[Merry Tiller]

But MT, when are the circumstances completely similar? As soon as you apply chemical fertilisers and/or pesticides you change the conditions. Same so when you apply organic stuff, by the way, so growing organically or not is growing under different circumstances.

Yes but that's how scientific experiments work surely.
If I grow one row of tomatoes using manure & comfrey liquid, the next row using growmore & tomorite and the next using nothing at all, would the tomatoes taste different or would they all assimilate what you give them in the same way?

[kitten]

I totally agree ace, tipping food on landfill a disgusting thing to do. Also does anyone know why supermarkets feel the need to overpackage their organic ranges? You can buy normal apples loose but the organic are always packaged up in bags or polystyrene trays. This to me is so strange.

I agree emmy.  We intended to buy organic fruit & veg for Christmas from our local supermarket (not having taken over our lottie until january 1st 07) however when i inspected the packaging it specifically said 'not recyclable' - I couldn't believe it!  Needless to say we didn't buy it.  I can't wait to be digging up our own fresh, naturally grown produce with no blinking packaging! x

[norfolklass]

I totally agree ace, tipping food on landfill a disgusting thing to do. Also does anyone know why supermarkets feel the need to overpackage their organic ranges? You can buy normal apples loose but the organic are always packaged up in bags or polystyrene trays. This to me is so strange.

I agree emmy.  We intended to buy organic fruit & veg for Christmas from our local supermarket (not having taken over our lottie until january 1st 07) however when i inspected the packaging it specifically said 'not recyclable' - I couldn't believe it!  Needless to say we didn't buy it.  I can't wait to be digging up our own fresh, naturally grown produce with no blinking packaging! x

Morrison's now sell their organic veg range in recyclable packaging, which is great, but if the organic produce can be wrapped in recyclable packaging, why can't the rest?? presumably the organic range is bought already packaged but when recyclable packaging exists supermarkets should be made to use it whenever possible on everything they sell.

[Garjan]

Yes but that's how scientific experiments work surely.
If I grow one row of tomatoes using manure & comfrey liquid, the next row using growmore & tomorite and the next using nothing at all, would the tomatoes taste different or would they all assimilate what you give them in the same way?

I think that it is possible to grow non-organic tomatoes that taste like organic ones. I think that you could reproduce the boost plants get from organic fertilisers with chemicals, but you would need substantial knowledge of plant chemistry. To assimilate the stuff you give them in the same way, you would need an almost individual approach as soils, light and pest attacks are never the same for each plant.
The tomatoes that are given nothing at all will be the odd ones out in this experiment, as they get nothing to assimilate.

At this moment, someone is looking up an article for me about an experiment in the Netherlands in which people were given vegetables to see if they could recognise the organically grown ones by taste. They could not.

To me taste is not the main reason to grow without chemicals. I'm concerned about enviromental issues.

[kitten]

To me taste is not the main reason to grow without chemicals. I'm concerned about enviromental issues.

And the potential effects they have on the human body?  :-\

[Garjan]

Those too. But I tend to forget these as I am personally not prone to allergic reactions other than from pollen and lactose. That is: as far as I know.