Topic: Flowerdew's really lost it this time

[Squashfan]

We have a small tree in a pot that we have dragged inside and decorated for the past couple of years. Much easier than a) assembling a tree or b) buying a new cut one every year. But it is kinda small. The other issue is keeping the cats from sitting on the dirt and then tracking that everywhere. 
As for keeping with the original Biblical story, if we all did that, we'd decorate the Christmas palm tree!  ;D And I have no access to myrrh or frankincense.  :P

[Merry Tiller]

£50 for a tree Froglegs ???

[saddad]

The Polytheistic Romans pasted their gods over the pagan celebrations that they found in conquered lands... and Saturnalia was a good midwinter festival. Once Christian they found that they couldn't get rid of the older festivals so the Christian church pasted Christmas and Easter over exisiting festivals of Mid winter and spring / fertility. Christmas Trees and Easter eggs are hangovers from this. I am with you Rob that the whole thing is now an excuse for commercialism!

The date of Christ's birth is largely irrelevant to the early church as the whole thing is based on Easter, the death and Resurrection. If you look at the internal evidence like the Annunciation Jesus was probably born in Late July/ early August.
 :-\

[Froglegs]

I kid you not £50 ish.........ok £49.99......including balls......and lights....still £49.99 for a bloody xmas tree!!! ;D

[Froglegs]

ya could grow one for less than that ::)

[Garden Manager]

On the subject of 'growing your own', does anyone keep theirs outside even at christmas? (ie and outdoor christmas tree). If so how do you decorate it to make it look christmassy outdoors? Lights? What other decorations could you put on an outdoor tree?

I am just thinking it would be nice to have a tree on the patio out back to make the garden look a bit seasonal (seeing as we dont get snow for christmas these days, and the garden just looks a bit dull in midwinter).

Thanks

[froglets]

Hi GC,

Have mine outside the kitchen window - it's pot grown & on a pot trolley as it gets moved about when I put out washings.  I don't do outdoor lights, but it's got tinsel on it held on by wash line pegs.  I may invest in some cheap plastic baubels for it but I suspect the chav sparrows or the fat mouse will attempt something nefarious.

[Garden Manager]

.....but I suspect the chav sparrows or the fat mouse will attempt something nefarious.

Chav Sparrows? New one on me. I wouldnt exactly call my spadgies 'Chavs', More like 'Scarlet Pimpernels' at the moment. Elusive and ungratefull little blighters. Now the magpies, they definetly ARE chavs! Thanks for reply. :-)


By the way in case anyone hasnt seen my own thread on this subject, i thought i ;'agreed with Mr Flowerdew (for once). But now i am not so sure.....(?)

[redimp]

...If they're going to celebrate his birth, they have to pick a day somewhere, and the old Midwinter Festival is probably as good as any other date. It's the way it's all hijacked by commercial interests that gets me.

Ah, but Robert, the fact that they hijacked the Winter Solstice was a purely commercial decision too - they did it to sell Christianity to the pagans.


PS - just seen that saddad has made a similar point :-[

[Robert_Brenchley]

That could well be true in the case of Christmas; as far as I know, nobody ever wrote down their reasons for supporting it, or if they did, it wasn't preserved.

[moonbells]

Yes, but though the name Easter is pagan, the actual date is still calculated pretty much to fall at the same time as Passover, which is when we know the events of Christ's crucifixion actually happened. Because we don't know exactly which year the crucifixion happened, we can't calculate back to the precise date, and we still follow the "first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox" rule.

Occasionally Passover and Easter differ, usually because of the definition of a full moon. Same way that the start dates of Ramadan can vary between Shia and Sunni, because with one (Shia I think) the new moon crescent actually has to be seen at a certain place before it starts. Must talk to my boss to remind myself.

The original oestre was celebrated on the vernal equinox.

moonbells

[Robert_Brenchley]

Easter was originally a passover story, with Jesus apparently getting crucified on Passover Eve. Then as Judaism and the church evolved in different directions, the date of Easter was changed slightly. Where they found pagan festivals at about the right time of year they took them over and changed the dates.

[Merry Tiller]

Amazing isn't it? You never know where a thread is going to end up :o

[Trixiebelle]

Pagan festivals usually (always) surround what the moon is doing!

And 'what the moon is doing' is very significant when it comes to gardening/planting.

I think I've mentioned this before, but Dario (an 80yr old Italian plot-holder on our site) has been gardening for about 50yrs. He's an Italian Catholic but he plants by the moon. And his onions are always bigger than mine!

[saddad]

Apparently, according to the radio Christmas was first celebrated by the church in AD440... at the midwinter festival.
 ::)

[Robert_Brenchley]

The idea of celebrating December 25 as Jesus' birthday was put forward by Julius Africanus in 221; at the time, it was thought that March 25 was the date. The earliest mention of the celebration of Christmas comes from the Calendar of Filocalus in 354. By then, the Eastern Church was celebrating the birth on Jan 6th. Over time, the festival was introduced in one city after another, and eventually became accepted. It's probably no coincidence that Dec 25th was also the date of the Natalis Solis Invicti; the birthday of the Unconquerable Sun, who demonstrates his invincibility by regaining his strength every year. Constantine I, who fully legalised Christianity, was a sun worshipper who proclaimed Sol Invictus as his 'Companion' on his coinage for years after his supposed conversion to Christianity, and in the 5th Century, Pope Leo the Great complained vociferously about people doing devotions to the Sun on the steps of St. Peter's, before going into mass. It seems that at the time, the two beliefs were often combined.