Topic: Newbies...please help with set up.

[willywinki]

Hi, we've FINALLY got our long awaited and dreamed of allotment  ;D  ;D

Problem is, now we've got it we don't know quite where to begin!!  ??? We have a half plot which is plenty to keep us fed, fingers crossed.  We're still waiting for the boundaries to be pegged out, but i'd guess it's about 25ft x 45ft. Half of it has been worked this year and the other half is completely overgrown.

So i guess the qeustion is where to start??? We need to dig it all over right? Single or double digging? (who'd have thought digging could be so complicated!). Should we be adding organic matter/compost/muck?

I've read mixed advice on the use of rotavators for the heavily grown over area. Some people say it can increase weeds growth?

Also, i'd like bordered beds if that makes sense. By my calculation we need 5. One for things that won't move (fruit bushes etc),  1 legumes, 1 brassicas, 1alliums & roots and 1 potatos....does that seem right?

Sorry for all the questions, we just really want to get as much as we can out of our new lottie!!  :-*

[Robert_Brenchley]

Don't double dig without a specific reason. It can be worthwhile if you have a hardpan (most unlikely), but otherwise it's a total waste of a vast amount of energy. You don't really have to dig at all; the only reason I've ever done it is to get rid of perennial weeds, and I've got an ever-growing area now which is never dug.

If you don't have the energy to tackle all the overgrown bit at once, put down black plastic, and dig what you can. If you like garlic, put some in, but make sure you get really big bulbs with big cloves. I don't know how local garden centres round here have the nerve to sell the garlic they do, it's just widgy little bulbs with tiny cloves that never produce anything worthwhile.

[manicscousers]

congratulations on getting your plot,
when we started, we drew(well, sort of) our plot with sizes etc,
from the beginning, we know we couldn't dig so it was cover with whatever we could get hold of, plastic, cardboard, carpets,
we marked out the paths with old compost bags cut and covered with ash from the local hospital, then we raised the beds as it's heavy clay, very wet and weed covered,
 ray built 3 boards high, we put cardboard down and filled them with soil, leaf mould, old manure, depending on the crops we were going to grow, we did very well as it was the first year
have a wonderful time on your plot, don't worry about getting everything right first time, like we did !!

[Mrs Ava]

I couldn't double dig as I didn't want to bring up the orange clay subsoil, but what I did do was single dig, but broke up the bottom of the trench and the subsoil.  I also add as much organic matter as I can lay my hands on, rotted manure, leaf mould, straw, compost, etc.  I don't have permanent beds, apart from for fruit and asparagus, but have moveable paths as I tend to get carried away and never have enough room so have to dig over paths and plant in them!
I wouldn't use a rotavator on the weedy area as anything like couch, ground elder, dandelions, mares tail will just be multiplied tenfold by the chopping up of its roots into perfect little cuttings.  I would start by cutting it down, then slowely work away at it, clearing it.  The are that has recently been worked I would fork over roughly to let the weather break it down and kill any slug and snails eggs, and then thing about covering it with a chunky rotted compost.
Are you going to have room for a compost heap? 

[Barnowl]

Two pages of debate on rotavating!

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,91/topic,15848.0

It seems a lot depends in the type of soil and type of weeds.

We dug because we had a lot of couch grass and you have to get the roots up.

I hope you have as much enjoyment from your plot as we have (we started this spring)

[willywinki]

Thanks for all the advice, just wish i could go down now and start pulling up the weeds!

We've kind of planned a layout (i'm already a bit obsessed with it!). We're going to split the plot in two, we can get one half up and running for 2007, giving us space to have a go at growing a bit of everything and work the rest a bed at a time.

Phase 1 - fork over already worked half and put on lots of compost from home. Was thinking of getting the layout of this half set up at this point, making the paths, beds, would that be OK??

Phase 2 - pull out all big weeds of messy half and cover with anything we can get our hands on. Dig it as and when we can.

We should have space for 10 beds, shed, greenhouse, compost and muck heaps and water butts. Is there anything i forgot ???

Can you post pictures in reply's?

[Barnowl]

Of course there is the no dig lasagne method ... but I could be opening a can of worms here.

It looks as if you are allowing enough beds for rotation, but you might want to designate a spot for runner beans rather than moving them every year. 

Our plot is about the same size as yours and we just went for as many 4ft wide raised beds as we could fit in, with a couple  of smaller seed beds and a long thin one along one side for flowers, herbs etc (half of which ended up with leeks in).

Having discovered this site and "sat on the shoulders of giants", I think the flexibility of just using paths to mark out the beds (created with anti weed fabric, straw, carpet cardboard etc) could have been a better starting point. If you like raised beds they can be introduced as and when you are happy with the layout.

[supersprout]

hi willywinki, loads more info in the wiki - the A4a encyclopaedia, middle button in the array at the top of the page
if you go for beds, make sure you can reach to the middle - mine are 3 ft for ickle arms
agree with barnowl - marking out beds and using them for a couple of seasons will help you adjust to the layout that suits you before you consider anything permanent. Get lots of string! ;D
cultivate how it suits you - if you enjoy digging, dig - if you prefer sowing and harvesting, you can avoid digging altogether.
either way will give you good veg
Remember to enjoy yourself as you experiment and learn, if you don't enjoy a job, think of a way around it that suits you better
oh and welcome to A4a by the way! :)

you asked for photos (sorry to those who've seen them before) - no-dig plot, divided into beds, straw mulch and path cover - long paths cardboard covered in THICK woodchip provided by Council.

[manicscousers]

different approach, no dig method though




I think if you click n the pic it will go larger  :)

[saddad]

Even a quick hour with a strimmer (petrol) can make it look a lot better, rake up the mowings for compost or mulch!
 ;D

[timelady]

Congrats on your new space! :) I'm a newbie too. I just started working bed by bed. first I had to chop down the bramble on my less overgrown half. Then I've dug and cleared about a 5' square for my flower bulbs. Just finished clearing a space for the shed. I have couch grass and bramble roots to dig out, so I'm just doing one area at a time rather than worry about say 5-6 beds. The rest I now have covered with black plastic stuff. Some people have even recommended planting through this - making holes and just planting in the holes so the weeds elsewhere can die off.

Tina.

[vee]

Congratulations on getting a plot.

I would mark out the beds with string and dig over the previously worked beds to keep them tidy and then rough dig the overgrown beds this autumn and then dig again and weed them in the spring when the frost will have weakened the roots.

If you can get hold of a strimmer  cutting the grass on the paths between the beds will make an enormous difference to how it looks.

This website was invaluable to me especially when I first started.
http://www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk/diary/default.html

Good luck with the digging and definitely take photos.

[artichoke]

I'm slowly clearing a new plot which started as rough meadow grass and weeds in May (I have another plot elsewhere, up and running). I have found a petrol strimmer perfect for giving a feeling of being in control.

Like many people here, I am plastering the ground in newspaper and cardboard thickly enough to stifle the weeds, and have dug out a strip 1m wide by 7m long,  plus making a lasagna garden 1m x 7m to complete the long 15m strip (divided by a path). The outside of this long strip is protected by Mypex laid over newspaper to keep the meadow back. The inside is a path of coarse woodchips (free) laid on cardboard.

Inside the path I am setting off on digging another long thin parallel strip, and making another long thin lasagna garden by putting greenery on top of the already existing newspaper and cardboard layers. It's slow but steady progress. Perhaps too slow for some, but when I look around at the invaded, abandoned plots of people who have obviously put an immense amount of work in at one time, I am making a priority of holding the meadow at bay. I strim around the area I am working on, and luckily the council has just roughly mown the rest, so it looks quite encouraging.

Even though it is slow, I have had lots of summer veg from the first two strips, which are now almost full of broad beans, kale, leeks and peas (the last possibly over optimistic). Like others, I use miles of string and pegs to mark out the beds and paths as I go.

The main drawback of lasagna gardening is the weight and expense of the bags and bags of compost, manure etc I have to lug from car to plot, but I really enjoyed being able to sow and plant quite a good area within only a few days of making a start. The area I have actually dug was slower to get going, especially as the digging coincided with heat and drought, but I like digging, even though it took me from May to November to fully  complete the same area as the lasagna part.

I imagine the whole area covered by 1m x 7m strips, eventually! No hurry, as my old allotment is very productive after about five or six years.

[willywinki]

Thanks, so much for all the advice. Plenty to keep us occupied as soon as we can get our eager hands on it.

Supersprout, as they say, pictures say a thousand words...but i do have one question, sorry! You said it was no-dig, but on the bottom picture it there's appears to be 2 dug areas. So i didg abit then mulch with straw, then I can plant?

Vee, i found that link too, lots of great info and advice :D

Here's a pic of how it is now!!!!!!!! We'll keep you posted  ;)

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o161/willywinki/allotmentnov2006.jpg

[supersprout]

crikey that's one challenge and a half ww :o :P but like everyone is saying, tackle one lil bit at a time and cover the rest if you can. You'll get there!

appearances are deceptive - those two beds have piles of spent hops on them - I grew tomatoes in ring culture in the greenhouse in bags of spent hops last year, then emptied the used bags on top of undug beds 8) the beds have been covered in black plastic for six months with squash growing through them, so I whipped off the black plastic and mulched straight away with the spent hops. Now covering those with compost!

If you like to dig, dig - it's faster ::)

I'd suggest plant, then mulch lightly (2" or so) with straw or mowings, then mulch more between the rows when the sprouts pop up :D

[Pigface51]

Welcome & Good-luck!

I choose to break my back, sorry, double dig when I first got my plot (April this year, just over a halfd a traditional plot size, so similar to yours).  That was because my plot was covered in Couch Grass, which is the work of the Devil.

I marked my plot into three large (main) beds, and the rest have been marked out for raised beds.

I dug the first bed and got the potatoes in.  I then dug the second bed and, whilst digging third bed, got stuff growing in second bed. Once third bed was dug, started to dig over & install raised beds.

The raised beds are for the smaller stuff - spring oinions, lettuce, pak choi, carrot (and garlic  & onions over winter).

There was no need initially to add manure, but I have just finished spreading 2 tonnes of well rotted cow product, based on the recommendation from my plot neighbour (an Italian who has been there >40 years) and also the fact he was getting a load delivered and it made sense to get some.

2007 will (hopefully) be a better year as I won't have to spend teh best part of the year digging and trying to reclaim the plot from the weeds.

Good luck to you.

[manicscousers]

but, once you've done it, you don't have to do the same amount of work to get it fit to grow  :D

[liam]

Good luck, let us know how you go. I'm just looking for a plot now, really interesting seeing what others are going through!

All the best,
L

[windygale]

hi, most of the advise is great new, this is how i set out my allotment every year when i can work it (with crop rotation-- moving crops up two beds)
  just click onto the picture for a bigger view. this is what i do around winter time i get my son to double dig the areas for potatoes & legums, and add as much compost-leafmould -farmyard manure- etc, etc, what ever i have or can get my hands on, he then rotavate's the rest, (plots-beds-growing areas) and cover them in black plastic untill i want to plant my seeds or young plants
works for me- yes i have some weeds -but hey thats what a hoe for and an excuse for popping down the plot,
hope this helps
windy