Topic: When to rotivate a new plot

[Merry Tiller]

Curious to know how many people who disapprove of using a rotorvator have actually used one or are their views based on what they were told by others?
   

    I think so :'(

Yes, a plough has quite a different effect than a rotorvator - turning the soil into the trench left by the ploughshare in front, bit like digging really.

    Aha, Yes, almost exactly like digging, except weed roots are not removed

[bennettsleg]

Curious to know how many people who disapprove of using a rotorvator have actually used one or are their views based on what they were told by others?

My plot was unused for about 18months before I moved in.  It was rotorvated for me - I didn't ask.  It's caused me a few problems weed-wise which have been quite dishartening in my current carefully time-managed life causing me to seriously consider giving up my plot. I wouldn't recommend it to people in a simmilar position and will not have it done again.

[Merry Tiller]

Exactly the wrong way to use a rotorvator once again, I'm not surprised you're disheartened

[keef]

Perhap someone who's taken over a new weed covered plot could rotorvate half and dig half - i bet a score that the dug half will have far less weeds popping up the next year...

[keef]

Exactly the wrong way to use a rotorvator once again, I'm not surprised you're disheartened

Well what is the right way to use a rotorvator ?

[MikeB]

In my own case I did rotorvated half and dig half (approximately) due to the rotorvator breaking down half way through the job. The following spring there were more weeds in the rotorvated area than the other, BUT, the soil was so loose from the rotorvating that the weeds + ROOTS came out just by hand pulling. The dug area had to be re-dug to remove the weeds and roots a much harder job.  The plot is now dug/rotorvate completely so the question of propergating weeds is a thing of the past, I garden in raised beds so my veg growing area is not trod on, but I still rotorvate (new rotorvator) my beds, great tilth, the carrots, parsnips in fact any root veg love it. Great for mixing in manure, fertiliser etc. So to conclude a rotorvator may cause more weeds the FIRST year, but these are easily removed, after that a great labour saving device.

One point, what is the correct way to spell rotorvator? the choice I made is accepted by the internet but comes up as a spelling error on A4A spell check.

[supersprout]

Exactly the wrong way to use a rotorvator once again, I'm not surprised you're disheartened

Well what is the right way to use a rotorvator ?

See MT's expert advice at http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,91/topic,10528.0
some of us have long memories! :o ;D

[keef]

I normally dig late autum / early winter. In early spring i start going over it with my big cultivator (fork with the tines bent 90deg) this stops the soil becoming compacted, breaks up any remaining clods and helps gets it ready for planting, it also deters any weeds. I keep doing this on the unplanted areas every few weeks until its all planted..

I could use a rotorvator to do this, but i find it quicker and more accurate using a cultivator - probably is more hard work in the long run, but it helps keeps my beer gut in check.

To be honest i think were vearing away from the original question, which was basically how to clear a NEW plot - if you've had your allotment for years, and have got rid of most perenial weeds, then using a rotovator is OK (still does'nt actually turn over the soil though  ;D). But for a new weed covered plot - i still say dig it first...

[Merry Tiller]

To be honest i think were vearing away from the original question, which was basically how to clear a NEW plot

I'm fairly sure the original question was "When to rotorvate a new plot" ;)

[keef]

Good point  ::) - but seeing as no one has exactly, specifically answered "when" to rotorvate a new plot - and most people have said simply dont rotorvate a new plot, dig it instead and given advice on when and how to do this. Perhaps you could actually try and answer a question and say exactly when YOU think you should rotorvate a new plot - as you presumably think thats the best way of clearing a new plot... ;D

[Roy Bham UK]

I could use a rotorvator to do this, but i find it quicker and more accurate using a cultivator

What is the difference between a "Rotovator" a "Cultivator" and a "Tiller" please? ???

Please don't say... a rotovator rotovates a cultivator cultivates and a tiller tills ::) ;D

[keef]

Well i would say - but undoubtably some will beg to differ.

a rotorvator (or rotary culivator  ;D)

http://yabba.waffleson.com/media/31/img2t.jpg

a cultivator

http://horizonsltd.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/0-66-780a.jpg

a tiller

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d57/keef30/tiller.jpg

[Barnowl]

How about the slow way using Mexican Marigold (Tagetes minuta)?

Per Sarah Raven's Cutting Garden

"Not a looker, but an extraordinary plant - its roots kill perennial weeds. Its cleared a whole bed of bindweed at Perch Hill. Give it a try."

[Little Weed]

Thanks so much for the advice - I was hoping you wouldn't tell me I'd have give up thoughts of machinery and dig, but somehow I knew deep down that that's what the answer would be! You've all been so useful that I'm going to ask you another question now - see new post!

[Kepouros]

Curious to know how many people who disapprove of using a rotorvator have actually used one or are their views based on what they were told by others?

I used one for ten years or so.  I stopped using it when I became convinced of just how much its use damaged the soil structure.

Two years use of a rotavator does more damage to the soil than four years with a plough & harrow and five years with a spade, fork and hoe, resulting in the loss through oxidation of humus, and the reduction in the number of collloids in the soil, and a resultant loss of crumb formation.

The figures I have quoted were the results of six years of tests carried out at the Rothamstead Agricultural Research Station many years ago and were freely published at the time.

[Roy Bham UK]

That's interesting Kepouros, where did you find that information? if there is any evidence in that statement I wonder how the makers of these tools would respond?

Would love to hear from the makers of spades forks and hoes.

[Merry Tiller]

Kepouros, what machine/which attachments were used and how often was the plot rotorvated in this 2 year experiment?

Perhaps you could actually try and answer a question and say exactly when YOU think you should rotorvate a new plot

Ooh you're lucky I'm in a good mood................ since you ask so nicely :-* May, June, June & July at 3 week intervals.

This is not in fact the best way to clear a plot,though it will do the job. The best way IMFFHO is to apply glyphosate at double strength mixed with a touch of washing up liquid twice and to do this around a month before tackling it with the rotorvator...........it works..........but I'm not recommending the method to anyone, understand?.........UNDERSTAND?

[Kepouros]

Roy, The Report was published in the late 1950s or very early 1960s.  It was discussed in one of the horticultural magazines of the day, and I sent my postal order to Rothamstead and obtained a summary. The findings were complete and unequivocal, and also explained to me why my own heavy clay was heavier and stickier than before I started using the machine. Unfortunately I lent it my copy to a nurseryman of my acquaintance several years later and never saw it again.

Merrytiller,  I believe it was a Howard Gem with 6hp JAP engine - the same type that I and many market gardeners used at the time.  If you read my posting more carefully you will see that I referred to 6 years of tests, not 2. The tests were carried out on more than one plot for each method, and the rotavator tests were repeated.  The rotavation was done once deeply with a second shallow pass to produce a tilth similar to that obtained by the other 2 methods. As far as I am aware no attachments were used.  Prior to commencement of the tests the soil in each plot was tested as to humus content and crumb structure and was tested again each year throughout the experiment.

It all, of course, happened before you were born.

[keef]

Perhaps you could actually try and answer a question and say exactly when YOU think you should rotorvate a new plot

Ooh you're lucky I'm in a good mood................ since you ask so nicely :-* May, June, June & July at 3 week intervals.

This is not in fact the best way to clear a plot,though it will do the job. The best way IMFFHO is to apply glyphosate at double strength mixed with a touch of washing up liquid twice and to do this around a month before tackling it with the rotorvator...........it works..........but I'm not recommending the method to anyone, understand?.........UNDERSTAND?

well done for answering my post - although May, June and July ?? and glyphosate at double strength and washing up liquid - i take it your not organic then ?

[bennettsleg]

How about the slow way using Mexican Marigold (Tagetes minuta)?

Per Sarah Raven's Cutting Garden

"Not a looker, but an extraordinary plant - its roots kill perennial weeds. Its cleared a whole bed of bindweed at Perch Hill. Give it a try."

Have you or anyone you know used this? I've looked at Sarah Raven's site and there's not much in the way of: how easy is it to grow, manage and get rid of? What are it's growing habits and can you plant/sow it between veg? Will it attract the good wildlife or the bad crop-munching variety etc?
 :)