Topic: Decided on a pond...........

[ava_banana]

Right, my first post in this section, so please go easy on me, oh oracle's of aquatics......

We have a spot in the garden which doesn't get a great deal of water due to a conifer on the other side of the fence...(neighbours)...and the soil is very dry...it gets dappled shade during the early morning, some sun, then during the afternoon becomes shady...

There are no over hanging trees (the conifer is in next doors garden and i cut it at the fence line)....

We would like a pond here.......any thoughts...(not that there is any other location in the garden, EJ has filled it up!)...anything we should look out for.

I have seen someone on ebay selling Butyl liners.....0.75mm thick..........is this good...we have read up a little, so will be lining the hole (possibly with carpet and sand)......

....our garden has more of a woody theme than a stone theme....any thoughts on wood surrounds....old logs....or old sleepers (or do they contain chemicals that could wash into the water).....

....we will also have a little waterfall.....anyone any advice on what "power" pump.....raising to a head of about a foot, a 1 inch deep x 7 inch type thing.....or maybe a very small pool at the top with water running over a lip....

Any thoughts....? ;D

p.s...............non-formal.......with fish.......and marginals.......going for that jungly feel........

[ava_banana]

p.s.

....you don't have to answer all or any of the questions......

....any opinions.....?

[Margaret]

Hi,Ava.Everyone avoiding you? Well i'm not,i was just thinking about all you were asking! firstly it sounds an ideal spot,but wherever you site a pond you will always have a few leaves and stuff blow in so obviously it occasionally needs the bottom of it scooping along with a net.Especially if you intend keeping fish.Butyl is the best liner you can get and is worth the extra you pay to protect from accidental damage.Yes ,carpet and sand make ideal liners.Always go for the maximum depth you can.Fish grow at an alarming rate,and the more depth you have,the more they will be safe in winter.

The waterfall can be powered with various pumps,it depends ,as you rightly state,on the head you require.So don't buy till you have built and filled up.Difficult to get the surrounding area natural.i would go to different sites about ponds,search facility will help there,but i always use a local company to me,water gardening direct.They are reasonably priced and very helpful .You can use the wood on a roll so long as it has not been treated,obviously.You could also buy or get out of the library a book on constructing ponds,they will give you lots of advice.When we built out first pond it seemed like a lot of hard work and looked big but within 5 years we had to build another one to house the fish in while we extended the original.I now have over 100 fish ,so beware.Start off with just a few.If you can ,house a filter as well, so much better for the fish.Mine are mainly hidden with ferns,as you can half bury them in the ground if you want.though they do have to be above the level of the waterfall unless they are the pressurised type.

A lot to think about but best to get it right first off.I speak from experience!!Plants you have a wide choice,but build in to the pond some shelves and best to keep them in pots or they take over.A truly natural pond for amphibians is the most natural looking but then you can't have a pump and fish with them.

i know you have young children so the safety factor will come into it.or are they old enough to understand? I have a net on my ground pond to prevent the heron getting my fish.I also have a raised  pond ,safer but not very natural  !!

i'm rambling on now but do come back and ask if you need any more help!!

[ava_banana]

Hurrah, .........thanks Margaret...... ;D ;D ;D

....EJ is visiting the mobile library today, so may find a couple of books.......

...we are looking at the safety aspect, and may try to put some sort of grill "removable for the future" in/on the pond surface..........or just below it if possible.....

...we really want to encourage the wildlife, and have a "natural" looking pond with lots of slug-eating amphibians....is that something you can't have as well as fish......or can we have a trickling waterfall at one end, and a "still-water" other end..

....sorry for all the questions, but I am one of those people (and I am sure EJ will add her comments  ::)) who like to get things worked out in my head prior to doing it....

...thanks.... ;D

[rdak]

not an expert, but wondered whether the conifer roots might cause a problem for the liner?

[aquilegia]

As you're having a waterfall, you won't be able to have a water lilly as they hate moving water.

Make sure you have a slopping beach so frogs and any creatures that have accidentally fallen in can get out easily. We're putting pebbles on ours to hide the liner and, hopefully, make small rock pools for the birds to use as baths.

For the surrounding (I hope this works!) I'm using upsidedown turf to make the banks a little more stable until the plants have established. The theory is that you turn the turf over (roots up, grass down) lay it on the banks, partly into the water to cover the liner. Then cut holes into the turf to plant through (as if using landscape fabric). I'm planting a selection of marginal, bog and wet-soil loving plants around. Will also scatter some nice, large stones around. I hope this'll look more natural than paving or wood. fingerscrossed anyway!

We'll have to compare notes after the weekend!

[ava_banana]

I wondered that too Ross.....but it is well established, and i thought the roots were more fibrous.....(aside from the huge ones).....

aquilegia.........I was sort of hoping to have two "areas" to the pond, one still water at one end, and a trickling waterfall at the other.......I had heard about the lillies not liking moving water...but thought that they didn't mind a bit of a ripple... ::)

....good luck this weekend...we are still thinking about what we are going to do round the edge....

[Mrs Ava]

I believe that water lillies don't mind gently moving water, they don't like a torrent, and they don't like their foliage getting constantly wet.  We will have to have some sort of grill just under the waters surface for the time being, one thing I love about our garden is that the kids can play and I can be doing whatever, and I know they are safe, I don't want that to change.  I have dug quite deeply in that area and haven't come across any conifer roots so I don't think they will be a problem, as Ava says, the tree has been there for 10 years or more so I think it should be okay.  Is it okay to bury the edge of the liner?  What I mean is, have it over the edge, and then a couple of inches from the edge of the pond make a slit and sink the liner into the ground, then plant ferns and use big hunks of wood to soften the edges?  Now I am rambling, but as a couple we have never 'done' a pond before, altho my parents and Avas parents have ponds, but they are not the style I really fancy, they are not natural.  Thanks for the advice everyone. ;D

[ava_banana]

they are not natural.

.......the ponds that is........not the parents........... ::)

[Gardengirl]

Far be it for me to disagree with the experts here ;) but I have found that my fish and frogs live happily side by side.  The fish however probably do devour many of the taddies but we still get quite a few baby frogs hopping around in the summer so some must survive.  I also have a water lily but it is sited close to the edge of the pond away from the stream and fountain.  One word of warning regarding marginal plants.  I had a marsh marigold, in a pot, but it still grew so large I had to discard it as it got so tall and flopped over when it rained and looked very untidy.  I am not sure if you can get smaller varieties. If so it is well worth getting as it gives a lovely splash of colour in the pond.  Good luck with it, sounds as if it is going to be great if all goes to plan. :D :)

[teresa]

Hi I can only add a few bits I have frogs with fish and they spawn had a bucket full last year and saw 5 frogs in the pool the other day the fish do eat the babies but if they all survived I would have a moving lawn.
Marsh marigolds will grow happy in a garden mine must have seeded and water splashed over the water fall now its growing and flowering at the bottom of the waterfall its quite dry there.
My water lillies were growing well untill the Koi saw them and eat them be warned Koi eat anything. I have a large pump which runs two gentle waterfalls and a seal fountain with diverter.
A margenal shelf is a must for the frogs to get out of the water mine is at the back of the pool. The birds will love a waterfall our birds perfer a shower in the water fall instead of using the birdbath. I have a flowerborder around the pool so children that visit dont go near the edge but can still see and feed the fish this is the cheap option and it works.
Ferns and hosta'a would look good around
thats my 2p worth. but most of all have fun with it the kids will love it.

[Anthony]

Just a couple of other things to add if you are intending on keeping fish:

Once finished building the pond, it is important that you calculate, write down, and keep safe the volume of water that it actually holds.  This is essential if things go wrong and you need to treat the water for any reason.  (and don't I know this!!!) For irregular shaped ponds the easiest way to do this is by timing how long it takes to fill a bucket of water from the hose pipe upto a certain level i.e. 10 litres. Once you have timed this you should then be able to calculate how much water has gone into the pond by simply timing how long it takes to fill.  

***Here is the maths bit***

If the bucket takes 1 minute to fill to 10L and the pond has taken 1 hour to fill then volume = 60x10= 600L

***The only thing to remember is that you ensure the water flow into the bucket is the same rate as the flow into the pond***

If you are taking water straight from the hose you will also need to treat it with a "waterlife" type product.  A small drop of this will remove all the chemicals/heay metals which are added to the water which are harmfull to the fish e.g. flouride, chlorine.

Once filled and treated it is best to leave the water for a week or two to let it settle down/mature.  Check the PH/Nitrate levels (You can get pond starter kits for a few quid) - Provided the levels are reading as okay, you can then start adding fish a couple at a time.  You may also need to add a filter start treatment which will help to mature the filter (if you intend to get one.)

And lastly if a couple of the fish die then don't worry, mortality rates in new ponds are generally quite high (n.b. buy cheap fish to begin with) after a number of months the water should settle down and unless you are me :( you should lose very few fish.

good luck

Tony

[ava_banana]

Thanks for the advice tony........

.......am hoping for some fish from my mother and father whose small pond is a little over stocked.

....good idea regarding the filling a bucket to check flow rate.......nice one......

.....and I'll have a look for the water treatment

thanks everyone