Topic: bed preparation

[Beer_Belly]

I've split my plot into 5 equally sized beds for a 5-year rotation plan and I'm trying to be organic where I can.

Bed 1  Peas & beans
Bed 2  Brassicas
Bed 3  Onions, garlic, leeks sweetcorn
Bed 4  Carrots Parsnip Scorzonera beetroots
bed 5  potatoes

Rotation sequence is Peas followed by brassicas followed by Onions followed by carrots followed by potatoes then start again with beans.

My bed preparation is as follows
Bed 1  Add lime
Bed 2  Add compost
Bed 3  ??
Bed 4  ??
Bed 5  Add pelleted cow muck

I haven't got any well rotted manure otherwise I'd have used this instead of the cow muck pellets (next year hopefully)
What can I add to Beds 3 and 4 (and maybe 1) will bonemeal be the answer ?

All input greatly appreciated.

-B_B-

[The gardener]

You plan>>>>.

Bed 1  Peas & beans
Bed 2  Brassicas
Bed 3  Onions, garlic, leeks sweetcorn
Bed 4  Carrots Parsnip Scorzonera beetroots
bed 5  potatoes

Rotation sequence is Peas followed by brassicas followed by Onions followed by carrots followed by potatoes then start again with beans.

My bed preparation is as follows

If you mean this is first year preparation I would say;

Bed 1  Add lime>>>>>No!>>> Pelleted cow muck
Bed 2  Add compost>>>>>No!>>>add Lime
Bed 3  >>>>>Fish Blood & Bone
Bed 4  >>>>>Fish Blood & Bone
Bed 5  Add pelleted cow muck>>>>agreed


Its possible others might disagree, the nature and pH of the soil will also play a part in your decision.

[aquilegia]

what's a good organic vegetarian option to blood, fish and bone?

Do chicken pellets count as manure or fertiliser?

[gavin]

Hi Beer_Belly

It's another Bob Flowerdew question - one of those things that he says to set you racking your brains!

On Liming

• IF he's using ground limestone/dolomitic limestone (slower release, and adds calcium and magnesium(?)), and IF he doesn't have club-root, then all he has to worry about is putting the lime in immediately after the potatoes, and the liming effect will carry over into the next year.  That is supposed to be the "most organic option".
  
• IF (like me), you have club-root in your soil; and IF the local garden centre only stocks garden lime (a mixture of ground limestone and slaked lime - and much faster acting), then I'd lime for the brassica beds - it's what I do.

Testing the pH of your soil - a good idea.  Practice what I preach?  Nope - but liming is a way to control club-root.

On adding manures etc to your beds.  It's your call!

• Serious about being organic?  Adding loads of compost before the brassica, and horse manure before the potatoes - feeds the heavy feeders, and leaves enough fertility for the following crops.  And as you rotate, the whole plot gets a balanced "feed", but doesn't get "overfed".  Also avoids "over-feeding" the veg with lighter demands of your soil.  Nirvana - no other additives needed.
• Keen - but you know that your soil has not yet reached that beautiful organic balance?  Blood, fish and bone meal (according to HDRA) is (I forget the phrase) "acceptable" for gardens "on the way to being organic".  I'll try to check that out further, just in case I've got it wrong, aquilegia.
• Pelleted manures - ah, let me throw lots of prejudices in ;D ;D ;D - <rant mode on> if I want s..t and straw, I'll get s..t and straw.  The idea of paying grotesque sums of money to a garden centre, for a fancy coloured plastic bag of highly processed s..t and straw sticks in my craw;  that's the MEAN me.  Pay even more money, because bag has got the magic word "Organic" on it?   If I'm really stooopid, pay vaster sums for elephant dung?  Not bloddy likely!  And then - organic me - pay through the bloody nose to help industrial animal farmers get rid of their disgusting waste products - now I'm getting worked up! :) :) :)  Cynical me - the breakfast cereal principle; the bigger the packet, the brighter the colours, the more abused the English language -----> the more I'm getting ripped off!  <rant mode off>

All best - Gavin

PS With ranting, I think I forgot to mention that I still have some blood, fish and bone meal left from last year - and I'm using it on several beds this year.  I probbaly will not do so next year, though - I like the idea of moving "up a level" in being organic, and will give it a go.

[gavin]

For aquilegia - veggie organic alternative to BFB meal?

Just a thought - not sure there could be an alternative product;  the only ones I can think of are

• going the other way, down the non-organic road >;( ;
• going straight for the serious organic option - nothing but compost, and well-rotted animal manure

Not a great deal of help?  Sorry! - Gavin

PS  Hey, but going straight for the organic jugular, you wouldn't be over-feeding your veg.  It's cynical me again - the number of books I have, which have incredibly detailed instructions about when to add which product!  I don't have the time (nor do I want the time!) to grow show-bench veggies.  Plus - overfed veggies = "prone-to-pest-and-disease" veggies?  Ignoring the "extras" gives me perfectly adequate and healthy yields on my plot.

Rambling!

[Beer_Belly]

I took my liming advice from Bob Flowerdew he says this ->

"Brassicas like lime but potatoes don't like lime, so it makes a lot of sense to have them well apart in the rotation.  Peas and beans also like lime, so it's common to add the lime when you have peas and beans.   That leaves the soil rich, so then you plant your brassicas.

"After the brassicas the soil is quite firm, which is good for the onions.  You don't even have to dig the soil, you can just put the onions where the brassicas were.

"After the onions, carrots come rather well.  Because carrots are a root vegetable you break the soil up getting them out, which leaves the soil in lovely condition for planting potatoes!

"The potatoes take a lot of goodness out of the soil, so I earth them up with grass clippings, which increases the humus content.  At that point it's good to add lime so it's time for the peas and beans to come back again!"

I have clubroot though so I'll do this
Bed 1  Pelleted cow muck
Bed 2  Add Lime
Bed 3  Bonemeal
Bed 4  Bonemeal
Bed 5  Pelleted cow muck

Now I just need to know what to do with my compost ?

Gavin - I agree heartly with yoyur sentiments on pellets - I've only just started so need to build up a manure pile for later years, in the meantime I'm having to resort to what I can get, thus the pellets

Thanks for your reactions so far
-B_B-

[aquilegia]

• going the other way, down the non-organic road >;( ;
• going straight for the serious organic option - nothing but compost, and well-rotted animal manure

thanks anyway Gavin - I'll just stick to what I've been doing then (compost and manure!) ;)

[The gardener]

For the vegens ...........you could use fertilisers based on 'seaweed' if the 'animal' content is a concern.

But then again thats a long story.................

[The gardener]

Interesting points of view here, particularly with liming.

Let me explan my view...........I lime for 'brassicas' which everyone seems to agree with, but then, assuming I am using a three year rotation programme, I won't lime that ground again until the 'brassicas come around again.

Generally lime is a pH adjustor not a fertiliser, so all it does is keep the ground in a state that allows the plant to take the optimum goodness from fertilisers.

In the intermediate years between liming I will test my pH and if needs be I add a little lime, if not I don't.

Regarding fish blood & bone I always considered this an 'organic' product simply because they are all derrived from natural sources.

The other reason I use it is, it has more nitrogen in it than just bonemeal on its own, which is generally higher in phosphate, and as nitrogen is a plants first requirement this is readily available when required.

Later in the plants growth the slow release bone meal kicks in.

So in effect, like Gavin, I do what needs must,not necessarily what the TV pundits say.

.........and thats is my opinion ::)

[gavin]

Hello Beer_Belly

Looks good - but your bed 2?  For the brassicas,  I'd add lime AND lots of feed material - compost, manure, or pellets - just as long as I do the lime a month or so before the other.  Brassicas are greedy b.....s, much greedier than the crops before and after - that tiny seed needs a lot of nitrogen (+) to produce such a huge ball of green goodness!

And your compost?  Make as much as you can - I suspect I can never have enough!  I spread as much as is usable (and that in itself would horrify purists - if it goes in the barrow and is not actually green?  I'm happy to spread pretty raw compost in vegetable beds - but not permanent fruit beds).  Means you use less of the Blood/Fish/Bone stuff - and really only as a "top-up".

Good luck - Gavin

PS For The Gardener - TV pundits?  Step 1 - switch 'em off!  Step 2 - chuck the telly - best thing I've done in 6 years, and so much fun arguing with the TV License people (my next letter will offer to conduct them on a personally guided tour to the council skip into which my TV was dumped 5 years ago - they want to trace it?  Up to them!)

[Beer_Belly]

Thanks again for the tips - I'll lime bed 2 this week, That'll just about give me enough time before I add compost to it before I plant my brassicas

-B_B-