Topic: Chickens or not / Bird Flu

[B7jac]

I am seriously considering keeping a couple of hens prob only 2-4, my son is a vegitarian (hes only 10) and would like free range eggs, as well as a pet or two, the trouble is I dont know a lot about keeping them, also my hubby is not an animal lover of any kind and is worried about the damage they would do to the lawn/garden.  I've told him that they would be good at getting rid of slugs and small weeds etc., but would they damage my veggies on the veggie patch when running free during the day??? Basically are they worth it ? and what about bird flu ?

[undercarriage plan]

Hey B7jac! We've just been talking bout this in the livestock bit, scroll up to toppish... :) And hellooo  ;D

[jaggythistle]

   If you do as I was suggesting in the livestock section...it lessens the risk
   you could cover your runs with see through corragated plastic.... then you
   don't get wild bird droppings in your run...which is the way it will travel if it
   does travel.

[Paulines7]

I have seen a few posts from people in doubt as to whether they should start to keep chickens given that bird flu has now reached Turkey.   :-\  My own view is that if you haven't already got chickens then don't start until we know what we are dealing with.  Setting up facilities for keeping poultry is very expensive and could be more so if in a year or so if the stock has to be destroyed, not to mention any threat to people who have been in contact with the birds. 

The people who have already got poultry will have to decide what is best for them and I rather think this will depend on how far the virus spreads.  The day when we hear it has arrived in Great Britain will be a very sad day for us all, but I can see it coming.  I have 15 chickens all of whom have been incubated and raised by me.  I look on them as pets and the thought of putting them down is awful but it would be even more horrendous if they got bird flu and it spread to my grandchildren, the rest of the family and to neighbours.

There are difficult choices for those who already have their chickens but for those thinking about it.............. I would say forget it!

[lorna]

Pauline I think that is good advice. Better to wait a while longer than go through trauma that would follow should the bird flu ever reach our shores (God forbid)

[spacehopper]

Yep, that's the conclusion we came to...we are putting off getting chooks til the situation resolves itself.  :-\

[dandelion]

   If you do as I was suggesting in the livestock section...it lessens the risk
   you could cover your runs with see through corragated plastic.... then you
   don't get wild bird droppings in your run...

That's what my mum did.  She lives in Belgium where they made it compulsary to keep chickens under cover a few months ago.

[Svea]

check out http://www.omlet.co.uk
yes, i realise these stylish egg-loos are expensive, but:
their section on keeping chickens and ducks is really very good, i find. well explained to the beginner (you dont have to buy their hen-house ;))

happy reading :)

[Heldi]

I have hens. Fifteen of them now. I have a pen for them which has netting all around it to deter the wild birds getting in and they are soon to be getting a roof. I'm ready to keep them indoors if needs be. I decided to go ahead with getting my chickens because I thought if I waited around for what might happen in the future I'd never  try anything. Yes it's a concern,I read what I can about it...not  the newspapers,from other sources such as chook forums. I'd be down on about 4 months experience too by now , I'm still learning and enjoying it immensely.
 :)

[Jesse]

According to the research I have read and relying on my memory bird flu was first discovered in china in 1997. If you're going to wait until it all goes away you might have a very long wait as each year the migratory birds will pose a risk. From what I understand (this is my understanding and I'm prepared to be corrected on this) bird flu is quite difficult to catch, the virus lives in the birds digestion tract and must be inhaled to infect a new host. When bird poop dries out then the virus can become airborne (unlikely to happen in damp wet weather) and can be inhaled to infect a new host. So my hens would have to inhale the virus from dried wild bird poop from a bird that is infected with the flu, my hen becomes infected, then my hen's poop would have to become dry and be inhaled by me. I would have thought then, that I stand and equal risk of being infected directly from wild birds, for example when I put food out on the bird table in my garden, dried poop on the table, wind blows, I breathe it in. Maybe I'm wrong but at the moment I'm not terribly concerned about the bird flu, I'm more concerned about it mutating and being able to spread from human to human as it would spread much more quickly that way. :)

edit...forgot to say, they will wreck your garden and veg patch if left to free range in a garden that isn't huge. Ours are in the run and get let out when I'm around to supervise and chase them away from the flowers. Depending how big your garden is, they can destroy your lawn as well. Best option would be to have some sort of run and only let them out when you're around to supervise.

[Paulines7]

There is plenty of advice on the DEFRA web page concerning bird flu and the actions that should be taken by those who keep chickens.  I found this useful pamphlet entitled "Preparing for Avian Influenza - Separating flocks from wild birds"  It is dated Dec 2005.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/pdf/separating.pdf

I am lucky enough to have an old chicken shed 370 ft long.  Many years ago, long before we bought our house, the chicken shed was a battery for broilers.  There is no way I would coop my chickens up like that but I could partition part of it off so they have lots of space and maybe have a small door which would allow them access to a netted area on grass. 

At the moment, they are housed in another old shed and have access to large runs and sometimes the paddock.  Many wild birds especially sparrows, come to share their corn and water.  We also have swallows that nest in their shed every year.  In view of this I think I must move them asp and certainly before the swallows arrive.

What is the alternative?  I would hate to have to destroy them!

[busy_lizzie]

Last year I decided that I would keep a couple of chickens in part of my garden that is fenced off (it used to be my veggie patch before I got an allotment).  The plan was to build a chicken hut etc and to let them run free range around the other part of the land.  However Bird Flu has made me think twice too, so I am glad this topic has arisen.  I didn't know whether I was being a bit paranoid so thanks for the web site on the pamphlet.  It seems such a shame to have to cover them up when for years I have been advocating and buying free range and organic eggs thinking it was the most humane way to keep hens, but if the threat is real there does seem no other choice.  Will be disappointed if I don't go ahead but perhaps It would be safer to build a polytunnel there instead. busy_lizzie

[northener]

Yes it really is a worry especially now its hit Turkey. We haven't let ours 100% free range since the warning signs a couple of months ago. They have the henhouse and a secure outside bit that we covered with old double glazed units, to stop the wild bird poops. I read somewherre that we are protected with us been an island. A sick bird could'nt make it from mainland Europe to here. Lets hope.Pauline you should try to not let your hens share food with the wild birds.

[Paulines7]

Pauline you should try to not let your hens share food with the wild birds.

Impossible with the way I have things set up.  The sparrows fly into the shed and eat the corn.  Hubbie and I have definitely decided to move them into the big shed so at the weekend, we will go and inspect the potential new quarters and decide what we will have to do to set everything up.  What bothers me though is that the big shed doesn't get any sunlight and can be quite dark at times so there may be quite a bit of work and expense involved if we have to start taking some of the asbestos roof off or putting in more windows.

[glow777]

   If you do as I was suggesting in the livestock section...it lessens the risk
   you could cover your runs with see through corragated plastic.... then you
   don't get wild bird droppings in your run...

Covering the run may stop your birds catching flu when it does arrive in the UK but the sad fact is if it gets anywhere near your birds (range unknown but think 10's of miles) I imagine all chickens will have to be culled anyway - indoors or not.

I imagine the only people who will get away without a local cull will be the indoor battery farmers that due to the nature of their intense methods can guarantee that their birds will not be at risk - how ironic is that?

[fluffygrue]

Mm, I'm not allowed chickens at the moment - the other half works quite closely with the hospital's emergency planners / microbiologists, so he's a bit twitched with all the planning they've been doing. So we're going to wait and see what happens.. :(

Might have to get a goat instead.
Or a few sheep.. Hm.

Melanie

[teresa]

It is worring about the bird flu, I have hens and treat them as pets.
but all animals have illiness that cannot be treated.
Many years ago we had something similar with hens, then the foot and mouth, luckly we dont get rabies here and we all know about rabbits.
In humans its aids so everything that has a heart and lungs and breaths can catch something bad which can kill.
By all accounts wild birds drinking from the same water as hens the hens can catch something ( cannot think what it is) but a few drops of cider vinigar in the water will fix it.
Hope this helps some of you. I wish I could remember what sorry.

[Obelixx]

I heard a report on radio 4 this morning (Today) in which some boffin explained that there isn no migratory bird route between China or Vietnam and Turkey.  Whate ther are though are roads and trains.  He suspects the virus is being transmitted through transportation of fowl and inadequate safety precautions and checks - as you would expect in these countries.

Once here it may well spread through wild bird populations and migration but sensible precautions should contain it.  The human victims in Turkey have all handled infected birds or played in poop infested areas without knowing about the risks or the need for extra careful personal hygiene or even basic hand washing.

The UK govt claims to have measures in place to deal with the problem when it arrives.  You need to decide whether or not you trust them - after the foot and mouth fiasco - and whether or not you can find enough information to take sensible precautions yourself.   Somebody somewhere needs to keep a healthy stock of poultry for restocking afterwards.  Can't imagine a world without eggs and Chrsitmas turkeys really.

[teresa]

Check this site out.
It would be  great if the cure was this simple what do you think.

http://p072.ezboard.com/fbackyardchickensfrm8.showMessage?topicID=2351.topic

[Paulines7]

I did a search and these are the results.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=bird+flu+germany+sauerkraut&spell=1

Looks like there could be something in it.