Topic: Beekeeping

[Robert_Brenchley]

Hi Moonbells.

It looks as though you need somewhere else to keep bees; the local Beekeepers' Association may be able to help. Don't worry too much about Varroa; it's not necessary to use persistent poisons, though many people do. I use thymol and oxalic acid, which are natural and non-persistent. It's been shown that bees can be bred for resistance, though we're not at that stage yet. My own bees are showing signs of resistance. You're obviously aware of it and that's the main thing. You can't do organic beekeeping in the UK anyway; you have to be six miles from anyone using pesticides, and how many places are there where you can claim that?

I can't help with oilseed rape; I've no experience of the stuff. I believe people cope with it by cutting out comb and melting it. Again, the BKA should be able to offer advice.

Is the restrictive covenant enforceable? Many houses in the part of Cornwall I used to live in had old restrictive covenants about things like a ban on putting washing or growing veg in the front garden, which weren't worth the paper that were written on.

[moonbells]

Unfortunately the covenant is enforceable as the builders are still in existence after 40-odd years and keep tabs!

Mind you, garden's not really big enough to cope with hives.  I suspect that it's another thing (together with the observatory and greenhouse) that will come when I have a long south-facing garden and bigger house!

(Dream on...)

I do know that you can come to some agreement with local farmers to put hives in fields where the crops are bee-pollinated, so that's always an idea.  I guess if it progresses beyond an idea I'll be joining a local group and learning as much as I can first!

How do bees know the difference between the honeycombs and the brood ones for new bees? Is it just position?

moonbells

[Robert_Brenchley]

You put broodcomb in a big box at the bottom, and supers for honey, which are shallower and lighter, at the top. The honey inhibits the queen from going up, but to be sure you need an excluder. It's a slotted sheet which lets workers through but not queens or drones. In theory at any rate; I have known queens get through. If you're no good at lifting heavy weights, you need to have a couple of spare boxes, and shift one frame at a time; it's OK if you only have a few hives.

Do join the local BKA.

[moonbells]

Ah - so that's the trick. Simple when you know how! (Have to admit I did wonder what on earth a Queen excluder was for - sounded a bit like a draft excluder and I kept wondering why you'd want to keep a queen out of the hive!)

Trouble with joining the local group now is time - what with work, existing hobbies and allotment, I need a TARDIS to keep up!  ;D  Something would have to give big time if I decided to get bees at some point.  But my husband adores mead and honey, I like making candles in my copious spare time (!) and I am a lottie grower so it makes sense.  Never been stung (least not by a bee) so no idea if I'm allergic but the wasp ones weren't too bad.

I suppose asking how much time it takes up at the peak season is a piece-of-string daft question...

moonbells

[Robert_Brenchley]

Not much time at all really. Honey extraction is the only labour intensive job once you've knocked up the hives, which is pretty straightforward. Don't try to keep just one, always have two at least. That way if you ever get queen problems you've got something to fall back on. During the season, all you really need to do is go through them once a week or ten days to check whether they're swarming; if you get a low-swarming strain this won't happen too often, but you do need to be ready for it. With a bit of practice you can go through a hive in a few minutes. Mostly they look after themselves.

[moonbells]

So how on earth do you tell if they're going to swarm?  This wasn't clear from the websites I read...  is is simply more queen cells being produced? More drones?

The thought of faking a swarm to stop them actually doing it was quite daunting!

moonbells

[Robert_Brenchley]

The first obvious sign is queen cells; by that time they've probably decided that they're going no matter what. The traditional tactic of breaking down the cells is a waste of time; I did it with one hive last year as I was too unwell to manage anything else and it was a disaster. First they swarmed anyway, and I had to sneak in to a neighbour's garden to recover a massive swarm hanging in an apple tree (wish I'd had the camera with me, it was a classic), then the queen disappeared, leaving them with neither swarm nor young enough brood to make another. I eventually found the queen in the next door hive, which had been requeening itself, but I lost that hive, simply because I was too unwell to look after it as it deserved.

If you don't have space for en extra hive the best way to deal with it is by demareeing, which involves setting up a hive with two broodboxes separated by queen excluders and a super. The top one has 90% of the brood, the bottom one has the queen, foundation or empty comb, and a little brood to keep the bees in there. The top one raises a new queen (and needs its own entrance), and you recombine them later. It's quite simple, though unless you fancy hoisting 40-50lbs of broodbox (or 70-80lb if you use12x14's like I do) to chest level it needs planning. This is where you need spare gear, but if you get a couple of nucs to start with, you waon't have to worry about anything like that till your second season. If you get hives in Thorne's winter sale (on now) they're quite reasoonable, though any other time Thorne's is a ripoff.

[Toadspawn]

Moonbells
Where do you live to keep bees? Oilseed rape (OSR) is not grown everywhere so is not always a problem. In parts of E Anglia the hives are rarely more than 2 miles from rape and rape honey is often the major honey crop. It is a case of being smart and trying to extract it before it sets in the comb or after it has set scraping back to the midrib and then melting the wax/honey mixture and removing the wax when cold.
In the West OSR is less commonly grown so honey setting in the frames is less common.
One of the problems with OSR honey is that any left in the comb will 'seed' the next crop which may be encouraged to set aswell.
If you know you will get OSR honey it is possible to work with it. Don't let this put you off.

I would also recommend contacting the local beekeepers association for help and advice. Beekeepers are very helpful and friendly and you may be able to buy a stock and/or equipment secondhand or at a reduced price.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Do I gather you have bees as well, Toadspawn?

[moonbells]

Toadspawn: Chilterns.  Fields of the stuff everywhere to set off my hayfever...

Robert  - yikes - 70-80lbs? I have a duff back and can only lift 10-20lbs at most without putting myself in bed for a week.

I hoped you could lift everything in sections... or is this what you mean by needing two - so you can shift bit by bit?

Is it a new queen that goes with the swarm or the old one?

moonbells (sorry for all the annoying questions)

[Robert_Brenchley]

It's not annoying at all. That's what I mean - if you get a couple of nucs, you won't need much gear the first year, but if you knock up extra over the winter you can move everything one frame at a time and avoid the heavy lifting. It's obviously slower, but with only a few hives you'll be OK. It's the old queen which goes with the first swarm. Some (undesirable) strains throw a series of swarms with later ones obviously headed by newly mated queens or virgins.

[blight]

@#1

I can't help with oilseed rape; I've no experience of the stuff. I believe people cope with it by cutting out comb and melting it.

what was the question to this answer please and where would i find it?

[moonbells]

@#1

I can't help with oilseed rape; I've no experience of the stuff. I believe people cope with it by cutting out comb and melting it.

what was the question to this answer please and where would i find it?

Ah - it was in the Well done Dan thread - here quoted for clarity.

This should be an interesting addition; thanks, Dan. I've been planning to post pics of the bees through the season, but at the moment they're warmly clustered in the depths of the hives and there's nothing to show.

I'd love to keep bees, but it doesn't seem terribly straight forward any more with varroa. I don't suppose there will ever again be such as thing as organic honey thanks to the varroacides: the mesh method of getting rid of the things doesn't seem to be 100% effective. Poor bees. 

(It's a very frightening thought that without the capability to make these pesticides, honey bees in Europe may well die out and then there would be a complete and utter farming disaster. )

Sadly I can't have them on the lottie and the house has a restrictive covenant against all forms of livestock so despite the house opposite (different builder) having chickens, we never can... (That and we're absolutely *surrounded* with oilseed rape, and I can do without needing a road drill to get at the honey! ;D)

I guess if you want to reply to me then we ought to start a proper thread! :)

moonbells

Oilseed rape tends to produce a honey with the texture of concrete if you're not careful and leave it too long in the combs.  I'd read this on various beekeeping websites.

moonbells

[blight]

and i don´t think it is very good to eat. it smells of cabbage too.

[Toadspawn]

Actually oilseed rape honey does not smell of cabbage. It is very pale and has quite a bland taste which a lot of people like. It does set very hard very quickly but with careful warming can be softened or melted back to liquid.

[blight]

actually it does.
could be though that you have got a different variey of oil rape in the uk to us in germany, a land flowing with cabbagy rape honey.

[Svea]

never noticed a cabbage smell on the 'ordinary' honey which i assume is mostly rapeseed honey in germany. mind you, that was before i trained my tastebuds for the finer things in life ;)

[Robert_Brenchley]

By 'ordinary' honey, do you mean the commercial stuff? It's processed to the point where everything which distinguishes honey from invert syrup has vanished. Rape honey is bland and hard; it's usually blended with other honeys, but it's certainly not unpleasant to the taste. Loads of people do cope with it successfully, but as I'm in the middle of a large conurbation, I've never had to cope with it.

[moonbells]

hmmm .... the last pot of honey we bought has gone solid quite amazingly over the last 2-3 weeks.  Started off with a few crystals in the bottom and it's now completely crystallized.

I can't help wondering if it's indeed rape honey.  Must ask the stallholder next time I see them at the farmers' market...

moonbells

[Robert_Brenchley]

Sounds as though it could well be. The other pale fast-setting honey that springs to mind is ivy, which has been becoming commoner over the last few years. But rape is by far the most likely.