Topic: your thoughts.

[Heldi]

Having been watching a bit of the Glastonbury festival on TV I have started to ponder. Someone can tell me whether this is correct as I have not been to Stonehenge. I am given to believe that the stone circle itself is actually not totally accessable. That it is fenced off so people can't actually go and touch the stones etc. I believe this is to preserve the site for our heritage. For future generations. Because of the impact of tourism maybe?  I know that up here in Northumberland you are not allowed to walk on the Roman Wall anymore. A pleasure I had when I was a kiddie. My imagination allowed to run riot with the absolute thrill of standing on something that someone else touched/built/stood upon all those hundreds of years ago. The fact that a Roman soldier may have actually touched the very same part of the wall was mind blowing! Better than a thousand glass cases filled with artifacts,diagrams and pictures in the modern visitor centre.

I've oftened wondered. What about us living here  now? Why can't we have free access to these places? To touch,to feel,to imagine,to even connect, if you believe in that kind of thing.Why do we need to have these controls put upon us? Afterall the very people putting these restrictions on us, surely are the ones wanting the tourism and therefore creating the pressure. If there is pressure. These sites are often thousands of years old. What will we do, with all our awareness's, that will destroy them now? What if in the future they think we are sentimental fools and bulldoze these places?  I have very mixed emotions about this. Is decomposition the natural order of things even if it is man made? Can we save everything? To think that if I travelled to stonehenge that I couldn't even step inside the circle is a rotten thought. To be put on a tourist trail "and here you see the famous stones on the right as we pass by..no photography please...." OK I (hopefully) exaggerate,but....

Sorry about my rambling thoughts. I'd like to know how others FEEL about this. Do others feel uneasy like I do? I kind've feel like I want them back!

[Gardengirl]

I feel much the same as you Heldi.  I was fortunate enough to visit Stonehenge many years ago now and it was an awsome feeling, as you say, to be able to walk amongst and touch the stones that were put in place all those years ago.  Unfortunately nowadays with all the wanton vandalism that takes place in our society, I suppose these places have to be protected to a certain extent from the mindless people who just have to  damage these places, just for the sake of it. 

[Justy]

you are right Heldi - can't go right up to the stones.  We went a few years back and I was so disappointed.  The worst thing about it is that they charge you £6 for the priviledge of standing 50 feet away from them so we said stuff that and stood and looked at the perimeter fence.  They are amazing though.  

I think that the whole idea of these 'preservation' societies started off well meaning but have perhaps lost the plot a bit.  I guess it is because we live in such a throw away society with so little respect for our surroundings that there is a real fear that we will have nothing of history left to learn from if we just run roughshod over these ancient relics.  The problem that I can see with this is that they will be frozen in the 20th Century and not allowed to continue to evolve.  Lets face it Stonehenge is already ' vandalised' either by nature or man probably thousands of years ago so to put it in a time capsule seems a bit sad.

[Wicker]

Yes indeed it is a sad situation but why does everyone concentrate on Stonehenge when there are many, many standing stone circles throughout the UK and Europe?  If you want to commune with the past it is easier and more effective to do this at  quieter, less commercialised locations I am sure.

Check out the undernoted link for sites of circles throughout the UK - good luck! ;)
http://www.megalith.ukf.net/bigmap.htm

[Heldi]

Sorry Wicker, I did mean to ask people to mention other areas known to them and their experiences of them. I mentioned Stonehenge as it came to mind because of what I was watching on TV and the Roman Wall only because I have experience of it.   What if those less well known areas come under the conservation hat? Will the same happen to them as has happened with the more famous sites? When I used to go to the Roman Wall there was nothing much there. No visitor centre,no place to buy a souvenir. You were left with some excavations, a few labels,the sheep and your imagination. And you didn't have to pay! It was great!

[Tulipa]

Not only can you not go close to the stones because of the powers that be but they are now going to move the A303 so that it doesn't spoil the look of the stones.  There has been a lot of discussion over the years about what to so about the road but it will cost millions to do it.  Money that could be well spent on other things.  There must have always been some sort of road there since stonehenge was built!

I used to regularly pass by on my way to Devon to visit my parents but only stopped once, about 20 years ago, and it was fenced off even then.  I think I have seen people going right up to the stones at the summer solstice though on TV, maybe they make an exception for that.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Dunno about Stonehenge but there's been a lot of concern about the erosion that vast numbers of visitors were causing along Hadrian's Wall. That's probably the reason for the restrictions, but I agree it's a pity if you can't walk along the top any more. When I went there years ago the path actually ran along the top for some distance.

[Svea]

sorry to bring this in but this has reminded me on an old classic

[offtopic]

What's this then? You're not going to put up these ugly stone blocks here, are you? You can't do that, I've got ancient lights on my cave. Well, what is it anyway? A henge? Well, what's a henge? You may call it megalithic culture, I call it vandalism. You realise this is about the last nesting place for mammoths in the whole of Wessex? What, with them building up the long barrows and the round barrows and the bell-shaped barrows, they've started cutting out these white horses in the hillside now, have you seen that? I dunno, it's some sort of ad. for mead, I think. They don't call 'em the beaker folk for nothing. And then you come along dragging these great pre-fabricated dominoes all over the roads. They're not meant for that sort of traffic. Every fine weekend it's the same story, ox-carts nose-to-tail all the way from here to the coast. I don't know where you get that stone from anyway. It's not local stone; I can tell. Where? The Preselli mountains? In Wales? I know it's in Wales, I've been abroad. What do you want to bring it all that way - you're bringing it the wrong way anyway. You want to bring it on the Chantebury ring road, avoiding earthworks at Avebury.
What a horrible looking thing. Well, that's all there is to it, just two up and one across the top? Well, if that's modern architecture, roll on the ice age, that's what I say. Well, you'll never get a roof on it for a start. Never get twigs big enough. We had a woodhenge here once, but it rotted. These big picture-windows you've got all round the bottom. Well, they look very nice, I grant you, but what about the draughts? What about the lack of privacy? Who wants to live in a thing like that? Well, you tell me when they start moving in, will you? We get quite a pretty rowdy crowd in some of these new developments. I don't want to end up under the alter stone in a crouching position. It's not going to be lived in? Well, that's something anyway. What is it then? It's a what? You're pulling my... A calendar? Well, it's a bit big for a calendar, isn't it? I mean, you'd look a bit silly with that on your desk, wouldn't you? Well, how d'you work it, then? You come up here every morning before dawn - well better you than me, mate, yes. And when the rising sun throws a shadow of that big stone onto this flat one here, then we shall know if it's summer. Well, that will be very helpful, I must say. Is it summer? You can't tell. Well, I had better come and help you shovel the snow off it then, hadn't I.
Flanders & Swann, 'Built up Area'
[/offtopic]

;D

[Roy Bham UK]

 ;D That was a comical read ;D It reminded me of the telephone conversation between Sir Walter Rally and his mate, as he was telling him of his potato and baccy find ;D

Anyone have a copy of the text? ;D

[moonbells]

If you want to go and see a) what bad things people can do to an old monument and b) what good things people can do to an old monument then go to Avebury. You'll see both the remains of the stones that were broken or destroyed a few hundred years ago and the modern policy of keeping them open for folk to see and touch.

Now I'm a Christian who just finds the whole place fascinating (I would love to know how they built it all, and why, and where did the stones come from, and...?), but I have some pagan friends who adore the place for completely different reasons, probably the same as I felt upon going to Jerusalem.  It seems to be a good use of a monument that speaks to people on several levels.

moonbells

ps you can still go into Stonehenge if you're part of an official visit by a historical society. I went with some friends who had connections with an Oxford society, all after hours, and had a fantastic evening wandering about. They look a lot more impressive close-up!

[beejay]

Hi Heldi. Interesting thoughts. I think the problem with many of these historical sites is that people can now get around so much more easily than they could even 50 years ago. That means that as we learn about places we want to visit them, we can & we do in our thousands. Inevitably this just causes wear & tear to an enormous degree on the most popular places. I believe that the paths to Machu Pichu(?) are being eroded at a frightening rate. Therefore there has to be some sort of balance between allowing people access to these places & ensuring that they actually survive in something approaching their original state. I know that last bit causes its own arguments as nothing is "original" anymore but I suppose some sort of concensus has to be reached. I remember walking round stonehenge as a child & climbing on the stones - no doubt causing my own little bit of erosion!

[Heldi]

I can't help but think of the hundreds or even thousands of years these places have withstood weather, plunder, out and out vandalism etc. Now in this day, we seem to be the biggest threat of all, just by wanting to go and look at these things! 

What do you think the tourist industry does for these places? It draws attention to them and probably is the life blood of many a small business. Surely the very same industry has a massive impact on the degrading of these areas? If I go to look at them I'll be a tourist!

These are "heritage" sites. They are our heritage yet we can't go up and touch them anymore. I still have very mixed emotions about this! I'm going to look out for less famous sites as Wicker suggests. There is a small piece of Roman Wall in Newcastle sticking up in the middle of a green in front of some houses. The kids are regularly scrambling over it. If you see a grown up woman jumping up and down on it in the future...that'll be me!!

Svea your piece cracked me up!  Thanks everyone for having a chat about this,I've enjoyed reading your thoughts.

[Robert_Brenchley]

There are plenty of places you can touch Roman walls; there's a chunk next to the Tower of London and a large section of bath-house wall in Leicester, just to name two.

[redimp]

Newport (Roman) Arch in Lincoln!

[Carol]

Well, I got part of Hadrians Wall in my garden, which forms part of the main rockery.   How?    Well my brother in law lays pipelines for whoever and when a pipe line was coming up through Cumbria and through Hadrians wall there was spare stone left over and dear Bro. in law shipped a load up to his house and we got some!!!  I suppose he shouldnt have done it but you are all welcome to come and look and touch part of the Roman Wall.   Oh heck, what have I done, will I get locked up now.

 :o :o :o :o :o :o

[Deeds]

Visit Avebury instead of Stonehenge, much more impressive.