Topic: Feeding Runner Beans

[Nigella]

My seed packet suggests a weekly liquid feed during flowering / bean period .... would chicken manure pellets be ok (soaked to make a liquid feed ?)
 ;)

Thanks

[kenkew]

Don't see why not.

[Merry Tiller]

Yes, they make a decent liquid feed

[Kepouros]

If you are growing your runner beans on a properly prepared trench they shouldn`t need any fertilizer at all - simply adequate supplies of water once they start flowering.  However, if you really wish to feed them you should use a high potash feed such as a good quality tomato fertilizer after flowering has started.  Alternatively a comfrey or nettle brew is just as good.

All beans (and peas) `fix` nitrogen from the atmosphere, and they certainly don`t need any more nitrogen added in the form of fertilizer.

[Merry Tiller]

Most of the compost in my properly prepared bean trenches consists of a supply of nitrogen ???.
Beans do assimilate nitrogen from the atmosphere but it's not really true to say that you shouldn't give them any as a feed

[flowerlady]

How deep should a properly prepared trench be?  Spit deep or more?

[Kepouros]

Merry Tiller, my posting specifically commenced with the words "if you are growing your runner beans on a properly prepared trench".  Any properly prepared bean trench is bound to include a certain amount of nitrogen releasing material, although for best results at least some of this should be in the form of slow release material (such as wool shoddy, which goes on working for years).

Assuming this to be the case, no further addition of nitrogen is necessary.  I have been growing top class runner beans for 60 years, and I`ve never added nitrogen yet.

However, in case further authority is required, a quick check in my library reveals two authorities (Lawrence D. Hills & Witham Fogg) who recommend only a dressing of lime (but obviously not where manure has been recently applied), and others (Louis N. Flawn, R.P. Faulkner, James Gunston, & Lovell Hill) advocate sulphate of potash at varying rates., while Flawn and Faulkner also advocate an addition of Superphosphate (I prefer to dig in 4 ozs per sq. yd of bonemeal in the autumn which obviates the need for superphosphate)

Both Witham Fogg and R.P.Faulkner also consider that where failure to set flowers is not due to dryness or lack of pollinating insects it is likely to be due to excess of nitrogen - to be corrected by addition of further potassium.

I would add that these remarks apply equally to french beans.

Flowerlady, a proper runner bean trench should be at least 2 spits deep - my own, made over 30 years ago, is 3 feet deep.  The bottom 2 feet were backfilled with a mixture of half-decayed leaves, the contents of 2 wool flock mattresses, half rotted compost, old newspapers, old woollen blankets, my old (woollen) army uniforms and greatcoats (motheaten, but I removed the buttons), and all sorts of other vegetable matter, all interspersed with layers of top soil.  The top foot was a mixture of topsoil and rotted manure with the bonemeal dug in.  The top foot is `topped up` every November with more rotted manure and bonemeal.  I never add (or need to add) any other form of fertilizer except an odd dose of comfrey brew (potash) when the plants are in full production.

[Merry Tiller]

Kepouros

The question was to the effect that, would chicken pellets make a good feed for runner beans?
Not, would chicken pellets make a good feed for runner beans growing in a properly constructed trench which has been filled with good organic material for years on end?

I think that whilst you've displayed your undoubted wide knowledge you've missed the point slightly. On my allotment site, which is admittedly small (40 plots) I know of only one person who grows their beans in a dedicated bean trench, me, all the others stick some canes in where they have space and feed with whatever they generally use, chicken pellets, growmore etc. Most of them have lovely beans most years so what the heck?

Though I welcome and respect the scientific approach that someone with your high standard of horticultural knowhow uses, this message board is for most people just a place to swap moans, sadness, enthusiasm, joy and advice. Some of the advice is dreadful granted but that's not the what matters, it's the support of other people who find themselves in similar situations that is important. Most of the questions or problems posted on here could be solved far more accurately by reading a good book on the subject, but we all need a bit of encouragement from each other now and again.

That's my opinion anyway, for what it's worth. Sorry if this comes across as a bit of a rant, all the best, AH

[Kepouros]

Merry Tiller,

My re-iterated reference to a properly prepared bean trench was merely due to the fact that you referred to the nitrogen content of your own dedicated bean trench.  The information that I gave regarding my own trench was in response to flowerlady`s question and not to the original posting.

In fact, of the authorities I subsequently quoted only Lovell Hill (who was a Show grower) referred to a prepared trench.  All the other 5 authorities that I quoted were referring to the system adopted by your fellow allotmenteers of setting up a row or wigwam of canes on any reasonably prepared piece of ground.  As none of these advocate the addition of either nitrogen or of any form of general fertilizer in such circumstances I stick to my original advice that no such addition is necessary.

All legumes extract nitrogen from the atmosphere and store this in their roots in the form of nodules, from which the nitrogen is released in to the soil when the plant decays.  They simply do not need any added nitrogen, whether from dissolved chicken pellets or from any other source.  Their only real need is for added potassium once flowering commences, and what the plant doesn`t need can never be a good fertilizer for it.

I must confess that I find your other remarks somewhat perplexing.  I thought that the reason that members asked for advice on these boards was to obtain it, but you seem to be suggesting that the possession of a modicum of what you call `horticultural knowhow`, or a scientific approach, are unwelcome on these message boards and that members do not want information that they could find in a book.

  Ah well, we`re all entitled to our own opinions.

[Val]

I agree we with Merry Tiller we aren't ...well most of us proffessionals..so just need the simple standard answer not blinded with science...anyway on the subject of beans...my first year ever in not being able to germinate them. Has anyone else had this trouble?..well I know of one other person...but anyone else here? I tried inside and out manage to get 3 plants germinated or was we just unlucky with dodgy batches?

[moonbells]

I agree we with Merry Tiller we aren't ...well most of us proffessionals..so just need the simple standard answer not blinded with science...anyway on the subject of beans...my first year ever in not being able to germinate them. Has anyone else had this trouble?..well I know of one other person...but anyone else here? I tried inside and out manage to get 3 plants germinated or was we just unlucky with dodgy batches?

I have had terrible trouble this year getting beans to germinate, even in the heated propagator.  Soyas rotted off, French came up patchy, ditto Runners. Sweetcorn dreadful.  Ended up chitting second batches on kitchen paper in a takeaway box and planting them when they got going!

moonbells

[Val]

Maybe last years beans weren't too good. I wonder what happened that they wouldn't germinate though.

[Merry Tiller]

Ah well, we`re all entitled to our own opinions.

And practise beats theory every time, sorry to hear about your perplexity

[Kepouros]

Ah well, we`re all entitled to our own opinions.

And practise beats theory every time,

And when one has had over 60 years of practise one begins to realise that perhaps theory is important after all.

[Merry Tiller]

After 60 years of experience you still resort to book theory, not a fast learner then?

By the way, if you're so experienced in theory and practice, what exactly do you get out of this message board?

[redimp]

Calm down both.  Civilised disputes are one thing but this is starting to descend.

[Merry Tiller]

Quite

[petemac]

I'm with you all the way Merry Tiller.
my first post on here and I'm all for feisty talk but I'n here to learn and take any advice i can get.

[rosebud]

Now  now boys settle down ,  MT, yes of course you are correct in that we all joined here for pleasure of learning from each other with all things, both sad and glad. Lets all grow our beans as we see fit, and yes chicken poo is fine i use it all the time and my beans are good if i say it myself. ;D

[Merry Tiller]

My point entirely

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong

Now I think it's time to draw this subject to a close  ;)