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In Rushden where I had two large patches of BL, I tended to cut off the green tops for eating and only occasionally harvest them as whole leeks. I harvested them with secateurs effectively.  Then cut off the tough leaf tips and cook the mostly green foliage, leaving the white 'stumps' to regrow, which they readily did. It is however best to leave a couple of big stems unharvested, because those will flower and make top bulbils. 

BL also has side bulblets hanging off from the base, which mostly break off when the whole plant is pulled, similar to elephant garlic, but these germinate sporadically and sometimes only a year or two later.  Glad you liked the taste, yes definitely stronger than the 'white' leek that comes from a long blanched stem in the ground, but not particularly garlicky, when cooked. 

Just researching how to get the tree peony started.  Is it really as lengthy and difficult as this?  Very mindful that after the more than six months to germination, there will be little time left to grow them before winter.  Are these instructions valid (from Google AI).  Should I start much later in the year, to give the seedlings a better growing chance next year? 

Hope somebody can give us the correct advice. 

To grow tree peonies from seed, you can start the seeds in a warm place, then move them to a cooler location. After the seedlings have developed roots, you can pot them up and grow them on.
Steps
Put seeds in a bag with slightly damp vermiculite or compost
Place the bag in a warm place (around 70°F) for 3 months
Move the bag to a cooler location (around 40°F) for 10–12 weeks
When shoots appear, remove the seeds from the bag and pot them up
Grow the seedlings on in a cool place
Gradually move the seedlings outside
Plant the seedlings in well-drained soil in a sunny or semi-shaded location

Thanks

Quote from: juliev on March 07, 2025, 10:42:02Jan, your coriander and spinach are prime examples of how we already save many seeds in a more relaxed way. We probably save a lot of flower seeds without worrying about crossing (aquilegia, foxgloves, nigella, poppies...). Yet, for vegetables, it just feels wrong, like we need special permission to relax or something terrible is going to happen. In reality, with a bit of education (to be aware of unwanted crosses) we can give easily save seeds for a wider range of crops and add some resilience to our seed saving practices.

My seed saving tends more towards the purist end but with exceptions. I get a great deal of enjoyment out of the whole heritage thing, being aware of the histories of varieties, being part of conserving some, enjoying the diversity but in a discrete way.

I can envisage, though, the two separate activities, interests and endeavours going on side by side with some crops managed for a genetically diverse, robust mix with particular criteria in mind, and other crops managed for the pleasure of collecting and delighting in more expected outcomes.

I don't think I've described two different pleasures clearly but I'm still thinking through what they may be! I was responding to the idea that letting things cross can feel 'wrong' but I do recognise that worrying about, say, broad bean or runner bean crossing is something that hangs over me a little, and probably others.

Quote from: galina on March 07, 2025, 10:19:35Yes indeed Jan, but it disappears on cooking (to my palette anyway, which isn't very sophisticated. 

All leeks have this tendency more or less.  With cultivated leeks rather less, with Minogue (which is technically a leek), rather more.  The famous Welsh perennial leek also rather more.  The perennial leek that Telsing Andrews bred is a cross of Oerprei (which readily multiplies from the base) and a winterhardy leek St Victor, in order to achieve a winter hardy multiplier aka perennial leek for her harsher Canadian winters.   This is what I have. 

https://permaseminka.cz/jedle-trvalky/97-vytrvaly-porek-modrozeleny-grex.html

PS sorry you have to click the translate button, but at the bottom of the page is a button for more information, that tells you everything about how this leek was bred. 

PS2  Here is more information about Minogue Onions  https://backyardlarder.co.uk/shop/minogue-onion/

PS3  More information about Oerprei  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIYEDN0nT0

Thank you for the links, Galina. I have seen/read the material before but good to be reminded and to have such material listed in one place.

Having cooked some Babington yesterday evening, I'd say the stronger taste persists a little and makes for an appealing  result. Even the biggest are smaller than most leeks so you need a good sized patch to provide many good helpings for two.

Thank you Galina for the photo of your multiplier leeks.
I've found my 2023 list: the leeks I planted were Bleu de Solaise, Porbella, Giant Winter, Bandit, Elefant, Musselburgh. I selected the best 2-3 of each variety to go to seed and planted them in mixed groups. So it looks like several of those have a potential to multiply and become perennial.
Interesting note about the taste of Babington leeks.
Oerprei looks like a small elephant garlic (which is closer to a leek than a garlic, if I remember well...)

As you both pointed out, the groupings for grow outs and distribution will need to be quite specific as they will be aimed at the "general public", schools, seed libraries etc.
ps: Galina, your edible podded pea mix would look amazing and totally unique! Imagine such a mix growing in school gardens!

It's a bit more complicated for the seed swap... This is aimed at seed savers/hobby breeders. Some of them keep things together, have unstable material etc. Yes, I would prefer to have everything in its correct category (indeterminate cherry tomato, indeterminate slicer tomato, bush bean for fresh eating, bush bean for drying etc). But it would be a shame not to accept something because it's mixed up. I'd rather keep it separate and list it as such. For example, some people keep all their peas together (all sizes and types).  I wouldn't want to mix them with the distinct types but would happily grow them out to untangle them. I can then add them to their rightful categories. I know several people who would do the same, for certain crops and not others, depending of our own projects and interests. Labeling clearly will be crucial!

Jan, your coriander and spinach are prime examples of how we already save many seeds in a more relaxed way. We probably save a lot of flower seeds without worrying about crossing (aquilegia, foxgloves, nigella, poppies...). Yet, for vegetables, it just feels wrong, like we need special permission to relax or something terrible is going to happen. In reality, with a bit of education (to be aware of unwanted crosses) we can give easily save seeds for a wider range of crops and add some resilience to our seed saving practices.

Yes indeed Jan, but it disappears on cooking (to my palette anyway, which isn't very sophisticated. 

All leeks have this tendency more or less.  With cultivated leeks rather less, with Minogue (which is technically a leek), rather more.  The famous Welsh perennial leek also rather more.  The perennial leek that Telsing Andrews bred is a cross of Oerprei (which readily multiplies from the base) and a winterhardy leek St Victor, in order to achieve a winter hardy multiplier aka perennial leek for her harsher Canadian winters.   This is what I have. 

https://permaseminka.cz/jedle-trvalky/97-vytrvaly-porek-modrozeleny-grex.html

PS sorry you have to click the translate button, but at the bottom of the page is a button for more information, that tells you everything about how this leek was bred. 

PS2  Here is more information about Minogue Onions  https://backyardlarder.co.uk/shop/minogue-onion/

PS3  More information about Oerprei  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIYEDN0nT0

Having grown Babington leek for quite a few years now, I've never eaten it because I was waiting for it to bulk up. I took a bite of raw leaf yesterday and realised what a strong taste of garlic it has. I assume this is specific to Babington rather than other multiplier leeks.

I shall try cooking some today and see whether the strong taste remains.

What seems unusual perhaps about Juliev's leek is that it has evolved from an annual (biennial) leek like Musselburgh.

My multiplier leek.   I should have put the camera on the ground like you have, but I think you can see the leek babies ok. 

Oh I get it now Juliev.  Sow one packet of radish, harvest a great variety of radishes and at different ripening times.  Sow one packet of edible podded peas, get a variety of green, yellow, purple and possibly red podded peas, both mangetouts and snaps.  If they save seeds from the radish mix, they will get a landrace, the peas not so much.  It is like the Morton's lettuce mixes.  Good luck for the project.

Yes indeed height is a very important category for gardeners Jan, as not everybody wants to deal with having to stake tall crops, especially for disabled or elderly gardeners in raised beds.   

As a bit of a purist (till now) in terms of seed-saving, there are one or two crops which I have for some time saved without worrying about varieties. Originally I tried out some different varieties of coriander, for bigger leaves, bigger seeds etc. Now I simply harvest coriander seeds and both cook with them and grow them on. Spinach is another crop I save generic seeds for and I no longer distinguish between flat leaved and curly parsley. So I suppose in those small ways it makes very good sense to abandon ruthless sorting.

I'm not sure in those cases whether I have a mixture or some kind of middling version. I guess it depends upon how prone to interbreeding the crop is.


In your community project would it be a good idea to specify some of the groupings which make sense either for growing or for cooking? In your previously attached summary you mention pea categories such as snap peas, soup peas, etc. Height seems to be another helpful grouping for both peas and beans. Habit of growth for tomatoes? Or do you prefer to let such categorisation evolve?