Allotments 4 All

Hi all

Have been lurking for awhile - great site!  Have now decided to take the plunge firstly to post, and secondly to get an allotment.  Was just wondering if anyone had any tips re: choosing an allotment.  The council site where we want an allotment has quite a lot of sites free so was wondering if I should be asking/looking for anything in particular (apart from the obvious like the least jungle looking lottie!).  The council offer to rotavate lotties and was wondering if this was a good idea, esp if there's loads of weeds (will it just chop them up, bury them and consequently help them to multiply??).

Am a complete novice, have bought GYO Veg by Joy Larkcom and Veg Expert by Dr Hessayon.   Will read more on this site re: planting in beds.  Any tips re: what to plant this time of year would be helpful (was thinking salad stuff, peas, beans etc).

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Hi
Welcome to the forum, its a great site.

Can't advise on what to look for on an allotment as was only given a choice of two and decided to take the one with fruit already growing on it. Big jungle mess though.
Don't let the council rotivate it, like you said it will just chop the roots smaller and you will end up with thousands more weeds.

Dig a bit at a time and work with it, you can plant all the salad crops as soon as you have dug a patch, radishes are very fast and you will be more enthusiastic when you have grown something.

I took my son down to my allotment with me yesterday, he has only ever seen us digging and this time he harvested 10 radishes, some spring cabbage and a bag of baby salad leaves, these grow nice and quick as well. My son was well impressed and said he had had a good day with me at the allotment. :)

Good luck to you. :)

I love my allotment

Melanie

Talk to the plot holders - they will know which are the good plots and which aren't.  When I went up I went with the man who runs the association and spoke to a number of other plot holders.  As a result, I chose a completly different plot to the one I had originally applied for and had to have my tenancy agreement amended.  The plot I have is still full oif weeds but when I clear a patch and put something in, it seems to do well.  So I think I had good advice.

Absolutely agree with Melanie  :)

Deal with it a little at a time.  Get some stuff in and growing so you can see some rewards for your hard work. Keep it manageable and you'll keep it fun!

Don't try and do it all at once.  Just do one bit at a time or you'll get fed up and turned off  :)   Plant or sow something asap to keep you motivated.  I've done a little metre square box of mixed lettuces and another with radish.  I got my lotty last year end so I planted some Japanese onion sets and these are just bulbing up   :)

Thanks everyone for the tips!   :)

Am going down to the site on Wednesday to have a look round so hopefully will have my lottie soon (attempts not to panic at thought of having a huge jungle and being complete novice  :o).  Will have to start thinking about getting some seeds!

I'm sure you'll here from me again quite soon  ;)

Another tip that was very helpful when I chose mine....try and get one that isn't too far from the water supply (unless you are very fit  ;)).

Hope this helps - here is how we got our lotty under control -

We did let the council rotavate and in hindsight this may have been an error. However the ground was extremely tough so you pays your money and takes your choice.

Massive amounts of carpet as weed supressant. We could have purchased black plastic but this seemed a v. cheap and effective option. We located local carpet fitters who needed to dispose of old carpet and within several weeks had enough free carpet to cover a third of the allotment (we only took naturally backed carpet, mostly hessian no foam).

As you dig weed - it takes twice as long but it does delay the return of the perennials.

This year I also dropped the gardening nuke - Glyphosate herbicide kills anything green. Can be expensive if bought from garden centres (as Roundup) but if you can locate the generic concentrate this is brilliant and cost effective. Let the weeds grow and develop some leaf then trample over them and spray. 2-3 weeks later no weeds. Obviously needs to be kept away from crops but you can almost start cultivating within a few days of application; once the weed has absorbed the weedkiller from the leaf to the root it is a goner.

Hope this helps

Bodolph

Bodolph  I've just checked my black plastic sheet mulch and it's working a treat.  It was put in place last November and all there's left is a few dandelions and I put a bit of glyphos on those and put the sheeting back.  It will be ready for planting in soon and without having too dig it.  Hey hey  :)

I agree with all of the above.  I got my lottie 18 months ago and it had not been cultivated for years.  The whole thing was lumpy and covered in grass and the soil was like concrete.  One of the other plot holders offered to plough it so I said yes please!  Big mistake.  I ended up with furrows about a foot high the bindweed and couch grass were happy as larry as they now had twice as many roots. I couldn't possibly get it all cultivated in one go so did a bit and the rest is now as bad as before.  This year I was more sensible and have been digging a bit at a time and converting it into edged beds (not really raised).  This means that the only bits I have to work hard on are the beds - the rest can just be strimmed.  Probably lose a bit on yield but as a working mum it is more important to me to not spend hours and hours weeding.

Now got some weed supressing cover on uncultivated bit with weed killer underneath.

Another tip from me would be to check the soil.  We are on clay (although fairly light) and because my lottie is on slope the soil is really claggy at the bottom end.  If the site is sloping bear this in mind.

Thanks again everyone!   :D

Will not be able to get to the lottie now until Friday  :(  but at least now have more idea of what to look for etc.  Thanks for all the tips - especially re: water supply!!!

Bodolph - is the Glyphosate herbicide organic (sorry!   ???  am complete novice)?  Am hoping to grow organically so was wondering if this was OK or not.  Had heard about the idea of the carpets to surpress weeds but thanks loads for the tips on getting hold of them.

Have also got my Organic Gardening catalogue and am resisting the urge to order loads of stuff until I actually get lottie - and must remember start small and simple.

Another question - anyone know if there is any chance of getting potatoes in (obviously would still be at least quite a few weeks away)?

Cheers
Adele

No herbicide is organis! If you want to go organic you have to do it the hard way. Black plastic works well, but it takes time, and you need to dig it well in round theedges or you get long roots of couch grass and ground elder running underneath it.

Glyphosphate/Roundup not organic but seems like a lot of us use it as does not go into the soil - It just kills the weeds and roots.  I resisted using anything last year but have admitted defeat on the large uncultivated areas of the lottie and sprayed them.  i would not use it any where near the crop plants and hand weed or hoe between them.  That is why I have edged my beds so only have to hand weed small areas!  ;D

They tell you it breaks down on contact with the soil, and fail to tell you what it breaks down into. This made me somewhat suspicious, so I set out to find out. Apparently it ends up as dioxins. No way would I ever use it!

Dioxin is the most toxic poison known to man.  I live by a plant which has been churning out dioxins into the atmos with full support of the authorities for years.  Farmers have had to stop producing their milk as their cows grazed on dioxin polluted grass and it got into their milk and into the food chain.  No blame on the polluter though and no need to compensate the farmers who had gone out of business through something that wasn't their fault.  It has got into the river as well and the water was 1000 times above the legal pollution limit.  They have now gone bust.  Hurrah

So beware of using glyphos if that's what it breaks down to  :(   I've just used some on an area 12 x 4' for a raised bed so I think I'll grow flowers in it now

I too am a newbie and have an allotment for the first time this year.  I chose mine for its shelfter on one side (wire fence rather than bush), the absence shrubs, the interesting brick foundation in the middle and proximity to one of the three taps!  Let us know which one you go for if you haven't decided already! :)

I agree with Robert, don't use Glyphosphate/Roundup.  If you do a bit at a time, like most of the above have said, you won't need weed killers.  Be organic and let nature help you.  I would never ever use anything other than hard graft to get the b***ers out of my lottie.
MM

Hi there - just a thought from somebody else who won't use Roundup/Glyphosate; passion shared, lads and lassies :).

But Greenpeace and PAN both stick very clearly by the following (I hope it's fair, given my own antipathy to anything from Monsanto - the orginal is here http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/glyphosa.htm):-

1.  Glyphosate itself is relatively harmless; it's NOT benign, but less harmful than many competing products.
2.  It CAN be mixed with much more toxic chemicals - there are all sorts of formulations which contain glyphosate as one among many components.
3.  Non-weedkiller surfactants are also added (eg dioxane (not dioxin) - and the cheaper the formulation, the nastier the additives.

But don't take that as me suggesting you use Roundup!  :)

All best - Gavin

Thanks for all the info especially re:  glyphosate.  Am now going down to see lottie tomorrow  :) as was busy today with job interview (which I got so am sooo happy  ;D - 2.5 days a week, plenty of time to work on lottie and some cash to spend on stuff!!!).  Think I will end up doing things the hard way (think the lottie will be a bit of a jungle as was warned by the council!) - bit by bit, and try and get some carpet to put over the areas I can't do for now.

Will let you all know how I get on tomorrow!

Pleased you got the job, well done. 
It's bound to look bad at first but once you've cleared a small area and got something growing it will just encourage you to do a bit more.  Just make sure you enjoy it, rather than making it a chore.  :)

MM

Job 1 - Beg, borrow, rent, buy or steal a petrol strimmer.

 ;D  Cheers Redclanger.  Actually think my mum has one in her shed - I feel a visit is in order!

I agree with the strimmer bit.  We are just in process of buying one coz the grass and weeds are knee high.  I think that makes it look much worse and daunting than it is.  If it is all strimmed back at least it just looks like nice grass (even though I know it is all  buttercup, thistle, couch grass and bindweed and their nasty little roots are spreading ever onwards........)  Also makes it easier to dig!

p.s congrats on the job - I've just got new one too so know how you feel!

I use a battery-powered one. I have a hedge trimmer which uses the same power pack, and between the two packs, I can go for about an hour with either tool. That's as much as I'm likely to want to do in a day.

I have had 2 bits of advice that i have found interesting, one was not to dig for more than 30 minutes as you will get bored and disheartened. Better to dig a bit then go and do something else. The other bit of advice which i am a bit sceptical about is not to water the plants too much as it makes their roots spread outwards and not downwards looking for the moisture.
I also think petrol tools are the future, id be lost without my petrol strimmer and mower.

Quote from: North Country Boy on May 20, 2005, 23:06:44
I have had 2 bits of advice that i have found interesting, one was not to dig for more than 30 minutes as you will get bored and disheartened. Better to dig a bit then go and do something else. The other bit of advice which i am a bit sceptical about is not to water the plants too much as it makes their roots spread outwards and not downwards looking for the moisture.

Hi NCB ;D I agree with your advice about digging and I have been following it for a while, but still long for a tiller :'( I think you may have a good point about watering too as Emma J (where has she gone again?) hardly ever waters her Lottie and it's as green as grass in dry Essex 8)

I tend to dig for 20-30 minutes and then have a break, which may well be nothing more than a walk round the site. I can carry on all day like that quite happily.

I didn't water much last year as no water supply nearby the lottie so it meant using a watering can which took forever and I think everything did ok.

good luck with your new job
good luck with your lottie
i agree with all the other comments as me and my wife have done about 3/4 of the plot this year as you can get carried away and it is to late to plant owt if you aint care ful so i have some more to do next year
i will put spuds in that new ground to get it working
i have lots of black plastic and thats works a treat
matt and helen
;D ;D ;D ;D

Appreciate all the good lucks (will need it) and thanks for all the advice.  Have been to see lottie today - jungle springs to mind!  Am going to take the plunge and take lottie on, and have posted another thread called "At least its got a shed" for advice on where to begin etc.

Thanks again all!

Adele

PS: Feel like a proper participant of the forum now!  Thanks for making me feel so welcome  ;D

Quote from: North Country Boy on May 20, 2005, 23:06:44
The other bit of advice which i am a bit sceptical about is not to water the plants too much as it makes their roots spread outwards and not downwards looking for the moisture.

It's true NCB.  In the garden I water all my plants in pots and the greenhouse.  At the lottie I water when I transplant and then leave them even if we don't get much rain.  Makes them stronger in the long run I think.   I would water lettuces if they looked as though they needed a drink.  Good thing really as we only have rainwater on site. :)
MM

Piglottie   Have pulled back my black sheet mulch put down last November ish and it's cleared the weeds a treat and there's nothing left on the surface just a couple of wizened dandelions.  I put a thick newspaper over each and put the mulch back in place.  On the other hand the bit I put glyphos on had killed the weeds sort of but they are now just a dead thatch so between the two I'd choose the sheet mulch.  I've got thick cardboard down too.  The mulch takes longer than weedkiller but at least it does get rid of everything.  I thought I'd plant cabbages etc in it and use a bulb planter so I don't have to dig it

Have you got a water butt yet?  Best thing you'll ever get on the plot  :)

Wardy  No butt yet  ;D but will keep an eye out for one - have little shed that needs doing up so hoping to put some guttering along it to help catch rain water.

Definitely going to go with the black sheet mulch.  Plot is 250 m2 so no chance I will be able to dig it all over in the near future anyway (dicky back and there's only sooo much digging hubbie will do!).  So have decided to cover about half to two thirds of lottie with sheet and grow my courgettes and squashes through the plastic.  Have some lovely courgette plants in pots on the windowsill at the moment.  Will dig over rest of plot and weed it (the hard way  ::)) and plant my salads, peas, beans etc and other bits and bobs.  Hopefully by early next year weeds will have died back and I can start clearing and using rest of lottie.

Bit at a time really - but its sooooo addictive!   ;D

yeah it's great.  there was a time when I'd be thinking what can we do this weekend but now all I want is to be up the lottie  ;D

MM

aaaaahh.thats good to know mm-i hope the church let you stay.. ;) :)