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I've just taken all the side shoots and leave off my numerous toms, which now look very bald.

If I have only the main stem and the leaves on the tops of this left, have I been over zealous with my pinching out?

I followed the instructions from Junes Gardeners World which said don't be afraid to be harsh but now I'm wondering if I have been too harsh.

Help!
Jo

Oh, dear, oh, dear!!

There's been a lot on this recently - with excellent photos - but I can't put my finger on it. The main thing is to get in quickly & stop you decimating any more plants!

The only thing you pinch out - & then only on an 'indeterminate' tom - ie not a 'bush' - is the little shoot that emerges from between the main stem & the leaf stem.

You only take main leaves off later, when the lower ones - which will then have done their job, get all grotty.  Further up they are still helping to feed the plant & shade the fruit.


PS Ah, yes - Phil's thing on page 2 under 'Now here it comes...'

Thanks for the info.

I think I may have decimated my strongest contenders then.  :'(

I have Tumbling toms which have been pinched,
Gardeners Delight that I have removed the smallest leaves at the base and another sort, sorry, the name escapes me, that I might have to add to my compost bin then.

I suppose there is nothing I can do with the ones I've been overzealous with.

Nevermind, I'm hoping I won't kill my spuds or runner beans!!

Jo

I'd agree with what Tim said, although I remember Ina saying last year that she took a few bottom leaves off particularly leggy toms in order to plant them very deeply in the grow-bags. So perhaps all is not lost Jo ???

Don't take ANYTHING off tumbling Tom's. I posted a pic about taking out 'robber shoots' from tom's in general...and that's all you need to take out. Extra 'culling' of leaves shouldn't happen until your tom's are well underway. This time of year, take nowt off!
(I'll see if I can find that there pic again.)

Here it is again. And this is the only bit you break (not cut) off your Tom's when you see it. Repeat; Don't take anything off tumblers or 'bush' Tom's.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Kenkew/02Tomato.jpg)

Note that this shoot is exactly where the leaf joins the main stem, any growth NOT in this junction will be a truss....DON'T cut that off!

Kenkew, thanks for these, they're really useful.  My toms aren't yet showing any of these shoots, but I'll be sure to break them off when they do.

Would it be possible to post a picture of a truss when they emerge? This is my first year of growing toms and although I know they'll fruit on a truss, I don't actually know what one looks like!

On the subject of pinching out - my Gardener's Delight are between 10 and 14 inches.  Should I be thinking about pinching them out at the top yet?

Many thanks :)

Ellkebe

Likewise - it's my first go at doing toms and this afternoon I was religiously breaking off the little bits as per the photo. Thanks!  ;)

PINCHING OUT - removing side-shoots as ken describes.

STOPPING - taking the leader out of the top of the plant when you have enough trusses - 3-5 outdoors or 7-10 indoors. DON'T 'stop' them till then!

TRUSSES - you'll soon see the more 'wiry' stems appearing, with buds & then their yellow flowers. Can't miss them!

It was ME asking the same question last year - what does a tomato truss look like.

So I feel quite good being able to supply the answer this year.

(http://ag.arizona.edu/ceac/photolib/pics/flower-fruit/devbud_flwer.jpg)

And I found a whole page 'Stages of Tomato Flower and Fruit Development':

http://ag.arizona.edu/ceac/photolib/flower.htm

Hope this helps  :)

Better than waiting, isn't it?

sorry, but just to clarify - I have repotted all my tom seedlings (all bush/determinate varieties) as deeply as possible to give them strudier roots and a more expansive root system . This has usually meant planting up to, or a little beyond the seed leaf level, so I've removed all the seed leaves. I plan on planting deeper again when planting out to approx. the first set of leaves. Problem is on the variety planted the earliest (balconi), all the leaves are curling and such that the bottom ones (1st true leaves) are now touching the compost and subsequently getting a bit moudly/brown looking. Can I take these off or should I leave them as they're feeding the plant?? Is it okay to replant tom seedlings as deeply as possible, i.e., first set of true leaves, or on bush varities is this too much?  ??? thanks in advance for any advice!

Greenfingers, don't dispair. I take all leaves but the top few off on purpose.
I copied some old messages for you here, if you want to see the illustration just use the search function and type in: Three tomato tips
Scroll down and you'll see it.


Re: three tomato tips
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2005, 09:29:04 »    

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Great Tim, thank you. Short, clear and to the point.

The soil temp in a cold geenhouse is often a stumbling block, especially when seedling are grown in the house, they often end up quit tall. Planting them straight down requires a deep hole into the colder soil.
This is why I use the horizontal planting method I learned from an American book by D. Raymond.

I have posted this here before but with the newbies in mind, here it goes again.

I start off with replanting the seedlings deeper each time, removing the leaves except the top few and planting them up to those top leaves.
When they go into the greenhouse, I again remove the leaves up to the top few and lay the plant in a ditch about 10 cm deep, slightly angled down, with only the top sticking out at the shallower end.
The top of the plant I bend slightly upwards and support it with some soil. In no time the plant will be growing straight up an you should see the extent of the rootsystem at the end of the season. This way the warmth of the sun reaches the stem of the plant and it grows roots along the whole burried stem.


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northener
Full Member

Posts: 112



   Re: three tomato tips
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 18:36:24 »  

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Ina can you explain a bit more about planting in the greenhouse i'm a bit fick. What sort of angle are we talking 45 degrees?I'm interested because the plants are going straight into the ground in the greenhouse with it been our first year.  

 

   Re: three tomato tips
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 20:16:28 »    

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Not 45 degrees, much less. Just a shallow ditch, the side where the top of the plant goes a little shallower so the stem doesn't have to make such a sharp angle to grow up, that's all.
Here is another old posting on this subject: (sorry, the illustration mentioned is gone)

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A few posts back Moggle mentioned that you can plant tomato seedlings deep, almost up to the seed leaves. I go much further than that and remove all leaves except the top few. After the normal pot I plant them deep in a tall 1 liter yoghurt container. You'll be amazed at the root system you get this way.

Months ago we were discussing this here and I posted a page out of an old gardening book. I have used this method with success ever since I started growing tomatoes. For those interested, I'll show it here again.



Part of the following is text from the book.

Let me tell you about my own method for planting tomatoes. because our northeren growing season is so short, and because this particular crop takes such a long time to mature. I have to start my tomatoes indoors about six to eight weeks before the last killing frost. The seeds are planted in shallow pans called flats.

...........I always transplant them deeper than they were growing ..................I leave only the top leaves showing above the soil. All but these uppermost leaves are picked off before transplanting. The buried section of stem begins to grow tiny root hairs. Before long, the stem will have become a tangle of healthy roots capable of supporting a rugged plant. ............again, I take off all exept the very top leaves and set the plant in a two-queart milk carton, putting the ends of the roots right at the very bottom of the carton. By the time these plants are ready to be set out in the garden, they have a stem the size of my little finger and a root structure as deep as the milk carton is tall...........

He goes on explaining that after planting in the garden the roots are only two and a half inches below the soil surface, the heat-loving tomato plant gets extra warmth early in the season. It will grow faster than having it's roots deep in the cold earth. Don't mulch until they have been in the ground for about four or five weeks because mulch insulates the soil so it stays cold longer and hinders the growth of the plant.  

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Quote from: Rox on May 13, 2005, 11:36:32
sorry, but just to clarify - I have repotted all my tom seedlings (all bush/determinate varieties) as deeply as possible to give them strudier roots and a more expansive root system . This has usually meant planting up to, or a little beyond the seed leaf level, so I've removed all the seed leaves. I plan on planting deeper again when planting out to approx. the first set of leaves. Problem is on the variety planted the earliest (balconi), all the leaves are curling and such that the bottom ones (1st true leaves) are now touching the compost and subsequently getting a bit moudly/brown looking. Can I take these off or should I leave them as they're feeding the plant?? Is it okay to replant tom seedlings as deeply as possible, i.e., first set of true leaves, or on bush varities is this too much?  ??? thanks in advance for any advice!

Please folks, give the plants a chance, they're just starting to grow - don't pinch anything off except the sideshoots from cordons. Leaves are where plants get their energy from!!!

As deep as possible means up to the lowest leaf, don't take leaves off seedlings you take energy from the plant, wound it and then hlaf bury it (would you like that done to you?  ;))

The time to take off leaves, if at all, is much later in the summer when the bottom leaves (full grown by then) are gowing yellow or brown

If they touch the soil and go brown or mouldy, provided your compost is not waterlogged it won't harm the plant

Please be kind to plants  :)

Phil

Is this advice or an order Phil?

It's a request - as I say, put ourself in the plants' place

You must be kidding.

Just to take this a little further for the 'newtotomatoes' people -

BEWARE!! -

It's comparatively easy to recognise a side-shoot on most of the stem with the help of Phil & Ken.

BUT - at the top end it gets more difficult. In fact, you can get 2 identical leading shoots, each with its own flower truss, & you have to decide which to keep. Whenever you think 'how lush my toms are looking', that's the time to double check.

Meanwhile, take time at the top to check that there is always a flower truss above the shoot that you intend to remove.

Not a brilliant picture - I find it difficult on my knees! - but showing
1. A flower truss.
2. A side-shoot (with a truss above it) close to the leader.