It's May already and we're right in the midst of a very busy time in the vegetable growing calendar. There is at last the possibility of sowing beans and cucurbits under cover and soon there will be the rush to plant out tomatoes, peppers, aubergines and so on. As part of this activity, it would be excellent if there's space for thinking ahead as to which crops might be good for seed-saving.
The season so far has been kinder, at least in UK, than the last, with a mild spell recently and not the deluges we experienced in 2024. I'm hoping that the slug population is more moderate this season. So far the signs are encouraging here. For me last year several squash, for example, were nibbled to total extinction. Fingers crossed for this year. Those of us who were part of last year's richly varied Seed Circle will have had the excitement of sowing many of its wonderful varieties. It would be very good to hear more of progress and to share results and experiences.
And so to the next Seed Circle! I hope that last year's enthusiastic band will be willing and able to participate again and it would also be excellent if any new members would like to join us.
For those who haven't participated before, here's some information to help you decide if you would like to join.
The Seed Circle is open to all A4A participants; it's great to have new people join too. The group is all about setting aside a little growing space, and time, to raise some crops for seeds, keeping the group informed as to how the season is going, then at the end of the season, probably in November, sharing some growing information and your saved seeds with the group.
Each person decides what 2 or more crops they will grow and save seed from (we do inc. tubers, bulbs and cuttings, but do make sure they are well wrapped so that they don't dampen any seeds). They will then aim to save enough seed for other Circle members to grow a crop the following year. The group could be up to 12 people but is more often under 10. Recently it has numbered about 7 participants. Varieties will generally need to be heritage or open pollinated so that they will come true from seed (potato seeds won't come exactly true). If you include grown out hybrids please state this clearly.
Some vegetables are easier and more reliable than others to save seed from. But generally peas, French beans, tomatoes, perhaps potatoes and some herbs are the easiest. Chillies, sweet peppers, squash, courgette and to some extent lettuce will need isolating from other varieties to keep seed pure or hand pollinating. Parsnips, onions, leeks, beetroot, carrots, celeriac and many brassicas only go to seed in the second year and need isolation from other varieties and so are more time-consuming and a little trickier.
Real Seeds created the idea for the circles. Their site gives some great seed saving tips as well as being a great seed catalogue http://www.realseeds.co.uk/seedsavinginfo.html.
There is also a brilliant series of shortish videos on seed saving for different vegetables at: https://www.diyseeds.org/en/
For anyone interested, what we shared in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024 can be found with images and donors' notes at https://airtable.com/shryC20nRNmUcgT30. Try Gallery View.
The seeds exchanged from 2017-2019 can be found at https://seedsaverscircle.home.blog/
And for seed exchanging from 2010 to 2016 at http://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/a4a-seed-saver-group-2014/
And some previous threads for the Circles:
Seed Circle 2023 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,83426.0.html
Seed Circle 2022 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,83279.0.html
Seed Circle 2021 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,83047.0.html
Seed Circle 2020 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,82679.0.html
Seed Circle 2024 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf2.1/index.php/topic,83530.0.html
Please could a moderator pin this.
I'm in! :blob7:
Thank you Jan for the time and effort to coordinate the circle.
Yes please, thank you Jan! They are discussing a possible SPS agreement in weeks, which should be very good news for seed exchanges, if it actually happens. Otherwise the usual provisos.
Great to hear from you, juliev and Galina.
And excellent news on the SPS discussion. Good that you have your ear to the ground on that. Do keep us posted.
Thank you for organising this again Jan and count me in please :)
The Chinese Pink Celery I included last year appears to have crossed with a plant of Chinese White Celery, or accidentally mixed. I was sure they flowered at different times and the white seedhead was discarded but must have been mistaken.
Anyway, it's quite fortuitious as the seedlings are a mixture of vivid pink, pure white, pale pink, and pinky green. Selection options!
Oh and it's early days yet but I hope to gather seed from:
Lettuce
Gigant
Goldforellen
Wiener Maidivi
Gustav's Salad
Northern Queen
Loos Tennis Ball
Tomato
Jazz
Orange Jazz
Pinky
Chianti Rose
Primabella
Physalis
Schönbrunner Gold
Cucumber
Shintokiwa
Squash
Honeynut
Gelber Englischer Custard
Duobao (Chinese C. maxima for summer squash, like a vining Zapallito)
Chamomile
Bodegold
Opium poppy
Sokol
Cress
Wrinkled Crinkled Crumpled
Unnamed Leaf Radish (Looks identical to https://www.rareseeds.com/radish-china-jade (https://www.rareseeds.com/radish-china-jade))
Brassica hybrids and turnips (if they go to seed) e.g. Kizuna https://vitalseeds.co.uk/product/asian-greens-kizuna-mix-organic/
Pea
Jeyes (shelling)
Edula (snap) https://dreschflegel-shop.de/knackerbse-edula
Various French and Runner beans
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I do have many other peas that need renewing but it's getting a bit late now and the weather is unfavourable. What are your thoughts for sowing now in the hopes for a modest seed crop? - just enough to perhaps double the amount sown. Risky?
Quote from: Vetivert on May 13, 2025, 19:20:16Thank you for organising this again Jan and count me in please :)
The Chinese Pink Celery I included last year appears to have crossed with a plant of Chinese White Celery, or accidentally mixed. I was sure they flowered at different times and the white seedhead was discarded but must have been mistaken.
Anyway, it's quite fortuitious as the seedlings are a mixture of vivid pink, pure white, pale pink, and pinky green. Selection options!
I'm fairly sure my seedlings are all pink but I shall check again today.
Wow, Vetivert. That's an amazing list of possibles. There are so very many varieties there which are completely new to me and which hold such exciting promise! Good luck indeed for a good season of growth and with combating the drought which seems to be settling in for many at the moment.
On the pea question, I guess one factor is how many seeds you have of the varieties in question. If you have enough to hedge your bets and try some seeds now and keep some back, it seems worth having a go. Have you got anywhere half shady to protect against the worst of the summer heat. I imagine plentiful watering would help ward off the worst of summer mildew.
I'm thinking Galina has experience of later growing of peas and will offer a far more informed, experience-based opinion.
Vetivert and Jan, yes but it only worked here. In Rushden not so much, because of bad mildew. Here we do not get that same mildew. I know that some people have done it successfully in England for an autumn harvest with a July sowing. It is worth an experiment, but clearly not with precious peas. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice :) there's a cool(ish) slightly shaded area near some fruit trees that I should perhaps utilise and leave the more open beds for beans?. Or put the peas in pots at home, it's very shady here with some afternoon sun, they might prefer it... the allotment can get very hot. Have you experimented with sprays to keep the mildew at bay? I've read people have success with dilute peroxide and seaweed on sweet peas, apparently the mildew is intolerant of an alkaline environment, though sweet pea foliage is quite different to that of edible peas.
By 'at home' I'm assuming you mean outside at home, rather than indoors, although I've read of someone keeping a single climbing bean plant indoors, out of season, in order to get precious seeds. Personally I'd prefer the at home alternative, outdoors, where you can keep a daily eye on the plant(s).
I have no understanding at all of the likely effects of peroxide but instinctively it doesn't seem to go well with an edible plant, and so much faff!
But it's obviously a question of personal preference and convenience in your precise circumstances. Good luck. Let us know.
Rushden's slightly alkaline soil did not save the peas from extensive mildew problems. I had no sweet pea experience then and neither did I attempt to spray the edible peas against it.
A cool and moist environment is definitely a good idea, as peas can crisp up and perish in the heat of summer quite fast without it. Watering pots might be more difficult than keeping the ground moist. I find that yellow podded peas last quite a bit better in summer heat than green podded ones.
Quote from: galina on May 14, 2025, 13:46:05Vetivert and Jan, yes but it only worked here. In Rushden not so much, because of bad mildew. Here we do not get that same mildew. I know that some people have done it successfully in England for an autumn harvest with a July sowing. It is worth an experiment, but clearly not with precious peas. Good luck.
Galina, do you know what the key difference is between the two environments in terms of their effects on mildew? Temperature, humidity, other?
Humidity, definitely. Lower air moisture content in continental climate. A few small, white puffy clouds or none. Usually here we have bright sunshine, unless it actually rains, not the more usual British overcast weather without direct sun (but without rain). If you see black clouds blocking the sunlight here, take cover! One year in Britain we had six weeks of continuous cloud cover and no sunshine at all. I was tearing my hair out, because the tomatoes and squashes hated it. Britain has a maritime climate with moisture from the sea trapped by much denser cloud cover.
Quote from: JanG on May 14, 2025, 06:08:15Quote from: Vetivert on May 13, 2025, 19:20:16Thank you for organising this again Jan and count me in please :)
The Chinese Pink Celery I included last year appears to have crossed with a plant of Chinese White Celery, or accidentally mixed. I was sure they flowered at different times and the white seedhead was discarded but must have been mistaken.
Anyway, it's quite fortuitious as the seedlings are a mixture of vivid pink, pure white, pale pink, and pinky green. Selection options!
I'm fairly sure my seedlings are all pink but I shall check again today.
I was wrong! My celery seedlings have a mix. About 80% are the deep pink but, as you say, no problem.
Were you growing the excellent Redventure last year? Might they be part of the cross too?
I hope I have mixed celery too! I am planning a relaxed celery mix that I can just scatter in the beds. I have some big healthy pink/reds and greens that overwintered and are going to seed at the moment (much better than the ones I ever planted...). I might lose the bigger stalks, mixing them all that way, but I mainly use it in soups and stews so it's not a problem. Thanks again Vetivert for the seeds! Fingers crossed for your peas...
I am growing both Red Venture and Chinese Pink this year. There are still a lot of Red Venture seeds left from my last seed save, so I hope to save only Chinese Pink. Thank you for telling us that we need to select. Mine are still pretty tiny and I can't really see the different colours in the stems yet.
Quote from: JanG on May 15, 2025, 06:27:02By 'at home' I'm assuming you mean outside at home, rather than indoors, although I've read of someone keeping a single climbing bean plant indoors, out of season, in order to get precious seeds. Personally I'd prefer the at home alternative, outdoors, where you can keep a daily eye on the plant(s).
Yes, outdoors at home in a north facing courtyard. Unless the weather shifts significantly and this is projected for a long period, I agree that home is the best option. Will keep you updated!
Quote from: JanG on May 16, 2025, 05:27:11Were you growing the excellent Redventure last year? Might they be part of the cross too?
Only Chinese Pink and White, and no other celery around.
galina you'll have trouble seeing the difference on the littlest seedlings but mine here are still pretty small. As they grow and get UV exposure the colours will be more clear. I'll be potting mine on soon so will take some photos of what I've found there. I'm sure that they'll thrive in your care.
Quote from: juliev on May 16, 2025, 07:38:45I hope I have mixed celery too! I am planning a relaxed celery mix that I can just scatter in the beds. I have some big healthy pink/reds and greens that overwintered and are going to seed at the moment (much better than the ones I ever planted...). I might lose the bigger stalks, mixing them all that way, but I mainly use it in soups and stews so it's not a problem. Thanks again Vetivert for the seeds! Fingers crossed for your peas...
I'm delighted too to have celery self-seeding and coming up in all sorts of odd spots, never a nuisance as it's so upright. It's always red, probably a descendant of Redventure, although I've also had Solid Pink from HSL, which I grew for a couple of years and might have contributed.
Many years ago I fretted because the celery I grew was relatively tough and stringy and I was hoping for the kind you used to dip in salt and eat raw for Sunday tea! I'm not sure how that is achieved commercially but it's not happened for me. But like you, juliev, it's significant use is for soups and stews and very much valued for those.
A not very clear photo of my Chinese Pink seedlings before planting out. IMG_5440.jpeg[attach id=50194]IMG
They look so pretty! A fantastic addition to your celery mix, JanG!
Not sure how they do it commercially... some kind of blanching method with abundant irrigation? Definitely not happening in my garden :tongue3:
Gosh they look pretty Jan. My Red Venture was at this stage and I planted them out yesterday, but they were started a lot earlier than the Chinese Pink. Really looking forward to this.
Yes, celery is a marsh plant and if our gardens are dry and the soil is cracking, this is difficult to achieve. Has never stopped me cutting them into smaller bits and adding to salads. And there are also cooked celery recipes to try other than soups and stews. https://www.riverford.co.uk/recipes/celery-baked-in-ham-cheese?srsltid=AfmBOoohLWvmov96DpX4itqwpGyxHFuLouYgOU-A4d0xr-G2xRb0-geW
Yes, juliev, as well as plentiful watering, you've reminded me of reading in old traditional veg gardening books of very labour-intensive ways of tying up celery stalks for the blanching effect.
And interesting on the marsh plant background. I have a magnificent plant of deep red celery growing right on the edge of the side of my polytunnel which I haven't watered since last season. The soil is as dry as dust although perhaps some external water has seeped under the plastic at a deeper level. In fact, as I write, I'm deciding it's not so surprising! But I imagine it's pretty tough.
Yes, but the poly will also have rain concentrating and flowing down at the edge when it does rain, or condensation collecting on the inside of the cover and eventually running down to the edges. Maybe it's time to give a stalk a try and see. May not be that stringy after all, despite very dry soil.
Quote from: galina on May 19, 2025, 07:25:28Yes, but the poly will also have rain concentrating and flowing down at the edge when it does rain, or condensation collecting on the inside of the cover and eventually running down to the edges. Maybe it's time to give a stalk a try and see. May not be that stringy after all, despite very dry soil.
I will indeed. The first of your options is possibly unlikely as this poly has the old fashioned design of a trench where the polythene is kept firm in a trench which means it will be wet but only quite far beneath the surface. I think it's time to dig the plant up and investigate.
If all goes well, I hope to be joining the circle, fingers crossed.
I'm hoping to join in again this year too. My provisional list:
Tomatoes -
Sergeant Pepper's (red/blue medium heart)
Malachite Box (green medium)
Tiny Tim - bush red cherry
Climbing french beans for drying -
Coco Bicolour
Deb's Creek
Dwarf french beans:
Merveille de Piemonte, yellow pods with purple markings
Purple Queen, purple pods
Jacob's Cattle Gold, golden yellow version for drying
Flowers:
Tithonia (Mexican sunflower)
Nicotiana mutabilis Marshmallow
Sunflower Yellow Pygmy
Great to hear from you markfield rover and garrett, and look forward to your participation.
I have a personal reason for specially welcoming your bean offerings, Garrett, as I grew Coco Bicolor many years ago and was looking through my seeds to grow it again. They were nowhere to be found and I was frustrated to think I'd lost them somehow. And I've never grown Deb's Creek though I've read about it, so another one to look forward to.
Tomatoes and flowers great too. Tithonia is a stunner
Mangetout Born. Goodness, what a fine brute of a pea. Ok it is growing in a very fertile part of the garden, but these are huge and loaded with delish peas. Thank you MR. A great pea to have.
I agree that Born is a great mangetout variety. It's very hardy as well as productive.
I sowed it early last year - on 2nd Feb - and it was producing really good pods by the middle of May. It's one to hang onto I think.