I'm new all of to this allotment business and a question sprang to my mind today during planning for next year. I'm interested in growing veg that are are maybe not especially "run of the mill"- for example the "Beginner Gardener" selection from The Real Seed Company http://www.realseeds.co.uk/giftcollections.html (http://www.realseeds.co.uk/giftcollections.html) rather than "F1" this or "Exhibition Variety" that. I like the idea of food supply diversity and the ethos of this company in particular.
Although I intend to grow veg to feed the family rather than win prizes, an interesting offshoot (excuse the pun) would be to enter some of my produce (if worthy) to a vegetable show. If the varieties are not "recognised", is this a problem? Or, is it all simply about the quality of the final veg?
Thanks,
Dr John
Quote from: DrJohnH on September 03, 2017, 16:58:55
I'm new all of to this allotment business and a question sprang to my mind today during planning for next year. I'm interested in growing veg that are are maybe not especially "run of the mill"- for example the "Beginner Gardener" selection from The Real Seed Company http://www.realseeds.co.uk/giftcollections.html (http://www.realseeds.co.uk/giftcollections.html) rather than "F1" this or "Exhibition Variety" that. I like the idea of food supply diversity and the ethos of this company in particular.
Although I intend to grow veg to feed the family rather than win prizes, an interesting offshoot (excuse the pun) would be to enter some of my produce (if worthy) to a vegetable show. If the varieties are not "recognised", is this a problem? Or, is it all simply about the quality of the final veg?
Thanks,
Dr John
can only speak for our allotment show where its the quality of the veg on offer however saying that there are varieties of veg that win more than their fair share many of which taste fantastic others not so hope this helps one thing i will say about this showing thing is a thing tg told me a few years ago if you want to show say runners beans for instance you are best to grow a lot of them you may get 1 perfect bean in 10 plants and if you need five the rest speaks for itself hope this helps
QuoteOr, is it all simply about the quality of the final veg?
Basically YES!
Having said that in my hey day I firstly grew for the table and if it was good enough for a show I entered it, then I went on from there!
Then there are the type of shows and this is not meant to demeaning but there are the "Village Shows" and the "National Shows" and these are often like chalk and cheese.
The judging standards between the two are much different simply because at the National shows there is a book of rules whereas at the Village Show these usually only have some basic rules (or should have) which are generally not as stringent.
What is common to both is the " Will to Win"
I could go on and say more but my tea is ready (lots of vegetables)
Quote from: Tee Gee on September 03, 2017, 17:39:13
QuoteOr, is it all simply about the quality of the final veg?
Basically YES!
Having said that in my hey day I firstly grew for the table and if it was good enough for a show I entered it, then I went on from there!
Then there are the type of shows and this is not meant to demeaning but there are the "Village Shows" and the "National Shows" and these are often like chalk and cheese.
The judging standards between the two are much different simply because at the National shows there is a book of rules whereas at the Village Show these usually only have some basic rules (or should have) which are generally not as stringent.
What is common to both is the " Will to Win"
I could go on and say more but my tea is ready (lots of vegetables)
Thanks again. Food first- I will maybe try a show one day. When I finally get a plot that is...
Dr. John
While I have no show experience whatever, I am a devotee of the aforementioned seed supplier and can assure you that they deliver exceptional seeds, which are very reliable. I have no problems in solitary sowing in 60 hole modules and can report almost a "full house" on most occasions. The varieties I select meet my needs, are prolific and tasty. Whether you choose a "gift pack" would obviously be your decision ,my query would revolve around whether the inflexibility will get you your preference, of course this may be adjusted in subsequent years.My experience of the selection is restricted to the beetroot, Junos pea ,carrot and chard. all were entirely satisfactory.
Quote from: ancellsfarmer on September 04, 2017, 15:42:55
While I have no show experience whatever, I am a devotee of the aforementioned seed supplier and can assure you that they deliver exceptional seeds, which are very reliable. I have no problems in solitary sowing in 60 hole modules and can report almost a "full house" on most occasions. The varieties I select meet my needs, are prolific and tasty. Whether you choose a "gift pack" would obviously be your decision ,my query would revolve around whether the inflexibility will get you your preference, of course this may be adjusted in subsequent years.My experience of the selection is restricted to the beetroot, Junos pea ,carrot and chard. all were entirely satisfactory.
Great- thanks for the feedback. I was using what they have for a selection as a starting point as I am still drawing up plans. I'm thinking of tweaking the selection - e.g. perpetual spinach vs. chard for example and have already added a few others... plans are still fluid between now and when I order the seed early next year. Also- one other key consideration (not to be overlooked). I still don't have my plot :toothy10: so am working to a "virtual layout/design".
" I still don't have my plot , so am working to a "virtual layout/design".
If you are awaiting a council plot, I have shared your feelings. So much so, in the N E Hants area, that one is literally awaiting" dead mens shoes"!.I have have been fortunate in 'borrowing' land ,3 successive plots around the home area, on agricultural land, and within a large walled garden, since 2009. These have been on a "share cropper" basis, the owner 'licenced' to help themselves.(which fortunately ,they rarely do!). The first plot-three years then sold, second, 2 years then sadly deceased, and now entering the third year on a third plot. Makes crop rotation notional but do it anyway.
In each case, needed to fence against resident livestock/ deer, so some capital investment.
However, local manure supply and water on site comes for the asking. Where there's a will ,there's a way.Good Luck, rule nothing out.
Quote from: ancellsfarmer on September 04, 2017, 17:38:59
" I still don't have my plot , so am working to a "virtual layout/design".
If you are awaiting a council plot, I have shared your feelings.
Wow- I am number 4 on the list of a site of 26 plots with apparently difficult growing conditions, so I hope I'm not too far off....
Dr. John
Depending on the "difficulty", widen your options. Needn't make a hard task difficult, to start with!
Particularly if growing for show purposes. You will find all knowledge here, opinions readily given: and after that ,you pick the one you like!!
I have shown flowers and veg since 1960 but aim at growing good veg and show the best. Some varieties will produce good specimens whilst others will never give a good shape etc. Saving your own seed is a good idea provided you can avoid cross-pollination. If you care to look at my blog spot you may find some help. I did win 15 trophies one year so I do have some experience. I look to help anyone as there is a lot of fun to be had.
Quote from: laurieuk on September 07, 2017, 11:24:17
I have shown flowers and veg since 1960 but aim at growing good veg and show the best. Some varieties will produce good specimens whilst others will never give a good shape etc. Saving your own seed is a good idea provided you can avoid cross-pollination. If you care to look at my blog spot you may find some help. I did win 15 trophies one year so I do have some experience. I look to help anyone as there is a lot of fun to be had.
Thanks- I look forward to it- but the main thing I think first off is to get some skills built up...and a good soil to grow in. As ancellsfarmer says- there is wealth of experience here!
As a rule of thumb in exhibiting produce 'size' is not always considered as the most important attribute, unless it is a " biggest veg" class.
What the judge is looking for is that each flower or veg in the exhibit is of high quality,and each item is uniform in colour shape and size, if they are big into the bargain, then that can be a bonus.
So growing F1 hybrids goes a long way to success as many of these have been bred to mature at the same time and are usually uniform in colour and size so then it is up to the grower to get the quality.
So let me wish you the best of luck with your venture.
Regarding varieties this is a difficult one to answer simply because some varieties will grow in one area but not so well in an other.
So perhaps as as an exercise you could put up a list of what you plan on growing then we can all have a go at saying ( without guarantees) which varieties we think will give you the quality you are after.
How does that sound?
Here you go- remember the first aim is to feed the family rather than win any prizes in the village show....
Onion Sturon
Garlic Solent Wight
Lettuce Morton's Secret Mix
Carrot Giant Red
Beetroot Sanguina
Squash Burgess Vine Buttercup
Tomato Stupice
Bush Bean Cupidon
Pea Oskar
Broad Bean Liesde Hangdown
Spinach Perpetual
Runner Beans Gigantes
Red Cabbage Lodero F1
Cauliflower Clapton F1
However, I would be interested in your thoughts.
Quote from: DrJohnH on September 08, 2017, 07:35:50
Here you go- remember the first aim is to feed the family rather than win any prizes in the village show....
Onion Sturon
Garlic Solent Wight
Lettuce Morton's Secret Mix
Carrot Giant Red
Beetroot Sanguina
Squash Burgess Vine Buttercup
Tomato Stupice
Bush Bean Cupidon
Pea Oskar
Broad Bean Liesde Hangdown
Spinach Perpetual
Runner Beans Gigantes
Red Cabbage Lodero F1
Cauliflower Clapton F1
However, I would be interested in your thoughts.
OK, yes but:
You may prefer a different runner bean, Gigantes, which I am growing this year for the first time, is aimed at growing "butter" beans for use as a bean seed in soups, stews etc. Its very vigorous, coarse regarding pods and not the "slicing green bean" you may expect.Mine have gone up 7feet, across 4feet and are now heading towards Farnham!!
As TeeGee has mentioned regarding F1 varieties, they will mature as a crop, sequential sowings may help, although mainseason often catch up with earlies.... The same pattern for lettuce.
Regarding the rest, I have grown most of them at one time or another and they are good.
'Gigantes' on the way over the fence, cucumber on left of picture
Quote from: ancellsfarmer on September 08, 2017, 09:00:40
Quote from: DrJohnH on September 08, 2017, 07:35:50
Here you go- remember the first aim is to feed the family rather than win any prizes in the village show....
Onion Sturon
Garlic Solent Wight
Lettuce Morton's Secret Mix
Carrot Giant Red
Beetroot Sanguina
Squash Burgess Vine Buttercup
Tomato Stupice
Bush Bean Cupidon
Pea Oskar
Broad Bean Liesde Hangdown
Spinach Perpetual
Runner Beans Gigantes
Red Cabbage Lodero F1
Cauliflower Clapton F1
However, I would be interested in your thoughts.
OK, yes but:
You may prefer a different runner bean, Gigantes, which I am growing this year for the first time, is aimed at growing "butter" beans for use as a bean seed in soups, stews etc. Its very vigorous, coarse regarding pods and not the "slicing green bean" you may expect.Mine have gone up 7feet, across 4feet and are now heading towards Farnham!!
As TeeGee has mentioned regarding F1 varieties, they will mature as a crop, sequential sowings may help, although mainseason often catch up with earlies.... The same pattern for lettuce.
Regarding the rest, I have grown most of them at one time or another and they are good.
Thanks for the info- I was going to grow Gigantes for dried beans. I believe they are good for this, but will definitely bear in mind the size of the plants! How many seeds did you put in?
Quote from: laurieuk on September 07, 2017, 11:24:17
I have shown flowers and veg since 1960 but aim at growing good veg and show the best. Some varieties will produce good specimens whilst others will never give a good shape etc. Saving your own seed is a good idea provided you can avoid cross-pollination. If you care to look at my blog spot you may find some help. I did win 15 trophies one year so I do have some experience. I look to help anyone as there is a lot of fun to be had.
I just looked at your blog and it is very informative. Thanks!
Quote from: DrJohnH on September 08, 2017, 09:23:43
Quote from: ancellsfarmer on September 08, 2017, 09:00:40
Quote from: DrJohnH on September 08, 2017, 07:35:50
Here you go- remember the first aim is to feed the family rather than win any prizes in the village show....
Onion Sturon
Garlic Solent Wight
Lettuce Morton's Secret Mix
Carrot Giant Red
Beetroot Sanguina
Squash Burgess Vine Buttercup
Tomato Stupice
Bush Bean Cupidon
Pea Oskar
Broad Bean Liesde Hangdown
Spinach Perpetual
Runner Beans Gigantes
Red Cabbage Lodero F1
Cauliflower Clapton F1
However, I would be interested in your thoughts.
OK, yes but:
You may prefer a different runner bean, Gigantes, which I am growing this year for the first time, is aimed at growing "butter" beans for use as a bean seed in soups, stews etc. Its very vigorous, coarse regarding pods and not the "slicing green bean" you may expect.Mine have gone up 7feet, across 4feet and are now heading towards Farnham!!
As TeeGee has mentioned regarding F1 varieties, they will mature as a crop, sequential sowings may help, although mainseason often catch up with earlies.... The same pattern for lettuce.
Regarding the rest, I have grown most of them at one time or another and they are good.
Thanks for the info- I was going to grow Gigantes for dried beans. I believe they are good for this, but will definitely bear in mind the size of the plants! How many seeds did you put in?
The packet- about 20 @2 per stick
The far side of the row in picture is of Trail of tears. Be interesting to see if they have cross pollinated?
Picture does not show many beanpods but they are in there somewhere!! Harvesting in 4-6 weeks subject to climate
I have only ever grown three of these so I won't be of much use to you
Onion Sturon.....I discussed my preference the other day see: https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,81379.0.html
Garlic Solent Wight...As good as any for eating but have never ever exhibited any.
Lettuce Morton's Secret Mix.... never heard of it personally I would just go for Kings Mixed leaves and get ten different varieties.
Carrot Giant Red...Sweet Candle is a good eater and certainly a good one for the show bench.
Beetroot Sanguina I would probably go for Red Ace!
Squash Burgess Vine Buttercup....I would probably go for Hunter!
Tomato Stupice.....I would probably go for Stonors Exhibition!although in my day it was Shirley and it is still a good un for the table and the bench.
Bush Bean Cupidon...No nothing about them.
Pea Oskar....I still say Hurst's Greenshaft is as good as any....very prolific and good pea count.
Broad Bean Liesde Hangdown......I tend to grow Bunyard's Exhibition!
Spinach Perpetual...Don't grow it ....Can't say I have ever seen it on the showbench.
Runner Beans Gigantes....Don't grow these anymore but when I did I grew Enorma
Red Cabbage Lodero F1....I have grown Red Drumhead this year and they are performing well so a good one for the table.
For the showbench I used to get selected seed from a friend and they were reliable for size and usually passed the test when cut!
Cauliflower Clapton F1 I can see why you have gone for this one (club root resistance) but my favourite is Candid Charm simply with the right timing I can get a couple of crops each year. It wasn't around in my show days but grown right I think I would try it on the bench. Apparently Atalaya is the new kid on the block.
I am going to Harrogate Show next Friday so will try to look out for the varieties the National Champions are exhibiting these days.
So there you have it...'my choice' but choose whatever you end up with .......getting them ready on the day is the difficult bit.
When I exhibited Dahlias I had an expression I often use and that was " I have too many Wednesday Flowers"
What this meant was; the show is Saturday/Sunday but my flowers are ready the Wednesday before or the Wednesday after the show so they were usually no good for the show I wanted them for.
However! There are ways of pushing them on and holding them back but that's another story!
TeeGee- thanks for the feedback. Lots of info- also good news is that my mum has given me a propagator she found at the back of her shed. I hope it works. I wonder what else there is in there?
UPDATE:
Entered the village show yesterday. Won 1st prize for potatoes, second prizes for shallots and garlic, 3rd prizes for cabbage and beetroot. :icon_cheers:
Thanks for all the help from all of you in getting my allotment set up....
Congratulations!
That's great news!
The bad news is that no-one will speak to you for the next 20 years ...
QuoteThe bad news is that no-one will speak to you for the next 20 years ...
I am sure you are kidding Paul!
When I was exhibiting I found the opposite was quite common! In fact if anything, many people would approach "the winners" and ask for advice on what they should do to improve their growing methods.
In fact in my case the interest was so intense people asked me to form a gardening club something I had never considered. After talking the idea over with a few of my ' fellow exhibitors' we decided to give it a try.........the club lasted around 25 years before it folded through lack of new members.
So congratulations John milk the feeling while you can!