I spread fresh stable manure on all beds on my allotment at this time of year. Free from a riding school close by. Sort of wrap eveything up for the winter. I heard on Gardeners' Question Time that you shouldn't do it. Why? I would like to know what the problem is as I have great vegetables of all sorts. Is it hygiene? Or chemical something or other?
I do the same... 4" layer now then dig it in. Sometimes in Spring if I run out of time now.. Brilliant results.
The few issues I can think with it is that..
1. If your ground is prone to flooding...'liquid' manure is not nice stuff having flushing down people's yards etc. though I don't think many on allotments would mind. Though having this stuff going down to drainage systems would not be good.
2. Any 'good stuff' that would contribute for fertilizing your crops would be washed down/off by winter weather so in theory you would have 'only' a 'bulk' left that would help building the soil structure better. You would still end up topping the fertility with added fertilizer.
Obviously you would not be able to do anything about flooding..or very little..but loosing valuable nutrients from manure and 'possibly' contributing adding them into surface water source (which in theory could be classed as pollution) you could stop it by covering the spread manure after it has received good doze of rain. Over winter months worms and other living beings would deal with and come spring you would have well munched down 'good stuff' with most of the fertilizing power still in it.
BUT...saying that, it is easier said and done and by holding my hands up in the air admitting I've never done it myself. I tend to leave everything to elements and letting it weather down. If our area would be prone to flooding, that would be totally different matter and any manure spread before winter would be waste of exercise.
That is all what I can think of why they would advise for not to do it...
ummm...another one came to my mind..
if you add fresh manure on ground that had drainage issues..that wet manure is going to wetter and heavier and add into those drainage issues. Soil activity is very slow during cold winter months so effectively nothing much is going to happen to it. other than just 'sit' on surface...add to that too much moisture and you could be damaging your soil by killing that little bit that is active and able to deal with organic matter. Worst case would be that your soil would turn 'sour'...having ammonia in soil from fresh manure you cannot add lime as there will be chemical reaction and plant life will suffer.
Would you 'suffocate' soil structure, it would slow your progress in spring as you would need to 'remedy' to put it right again. Getting soil 'alive' again is slow progress.
I'm painting now worst possible scenario...but these thins can happen...
Presume it still smells. Not sure you will be very popular with any neighbours.
Thanks for the comments! No flooding as I am on a slight slope! No contamination of water supply as we are surrounded by fields (with horses!) and a kind of common ground where people walk dogs (and horses!)
Luckily most allotment people don't notice the smell, either because they spread stable manure themselves or in winter just come at the weekends. Actually it doesn't smell at all after a day or two.
Re compacting - I'm not on clay and it's been allotments since 1928, so the soil is pretty good!
I am grateful for your comments - any more coming?
Chuck it on mormor,
Dig it in in springtime, the worms will have taken some down by then.
Take a look at my plot blog here and see how I use it and what it produces.. www.gavinconway.net
Thanks GavinJ. I looked, admired, and agree with you, so why does GQT say don't do it? Goodlife came with some good theories so maybe that's what GQT meant?
I would suggest if it has a lot of wood shavings in it that might be a problem.
I thought that fresh manure had too much ammonia which burnt the plants but others say it is too acid. So that does not make any sense. Like you I would like to know the reason.
This site has some suggestions
http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/manure
Perhaps the answer is fat hen. .
to be honest Horse Muck just brings weed / seeds in with it nothing better than a couple of bags of X6 Organic fertilizer,I think the bags are about 15-20Kg and 2 is enough for one of my plots which is 25m by about 22m, No Humping about just a quick spread either Now or a couple of weeks before you are ready to plant , and a lot cheaper for some people as the x6 is about a tenner a bag our local farmer wants 25 quid for 3 tonne, (OF HORSE MUCK)
Yeah I admit 6x or any fertilizer is good but the manure and shavings have made my soil so much better in the 2 years on the plot. previously I used my flat roof and loads of manure/shavings as well each year. Our horse muck is free so i can use as much as I like so I'm lucky there.. If I had to pay it would probably be a different story - but I love free and wouldnt pay - I'd find a free supply!!
Sometimes I get a few grasses growing from the horse poo lumps but one hoeing and they are gone.
Strange how we all have our favourite ways of doing things isn't it?
I prefer to dig my ' muck' in around now, in fact I finished the last bed yesterday!
My slant on it is pretty much the opposite of what the others suggest, not to say that they are wrong.
It's just that over the last thirty to forty years I have tried all sorts of methods and I find that getting all my digging & mucking is best done before Xmas rather than after.
Leaving it till spring is risky if we have a late winter,as this means ii could be a rush to get my beds ready for planting out.
Here are another few reasons for me doing as I do;
My main thought is this; in spring the surface of the soil is quite cold and to dig it over then means that the cold soil is moved down to a point where newly planted seedlings will be sending out there new roots.
Plus the slightly warmer soil is on the surface depending upon how severe the frost have been over the winter months.
OK it's cutting hairs but it is a fact.
Another thing is; muck generates heat as it rots so here is another benefit for me as this heat is in the soil!
What I found with mulching with muck pre winter is the faeces and urea are are filtered into the soil with the winter rain & snow and basically all you have on the top of the bed is the straw or silage ( animal bedding)
Add to that you have to paddle about in this when digging it in spring.
Then I find that this 'bedding' if dug in in spring pulls out the nitrogen in the soil to rot the muck down, when it is needed most by the new plants!
Whereas by digging it in previously the urea ( nitrogen) rots the compost down over the winter months, and the residue is there for the new plants!
Another thing I have against spring digging is it loosens the soil which is not good for brassicas.
I find that the soil settlement that takes place throughout the winter is just right and I don't have to tread in my brassicas.
Then another factor is personal fitness, at this time of the year my body is quite supple so I have no difficulty digging, whereas in spring after I have over indulged over Xmas it can be hard work.
I also think that unfitness and the cold weather are the right ingredients for developing a bad back.
There are other factors such as the choice of sitting in a centrally heated or digging out in the cold!
No brainier I would say :)
I could mention more but I think you will get the idea from the above why I do what I do! ... Tg
Hello all.
I've found these comments fascinating as they show how individual A4A's apply their own tried and tested methods to gardening and sometimes there is not a right or a wrong way. I compost the farm manure for a year and then apply it on the soil surface October/November time (avoiding beds for parsnips and carrots). In the Spring I still add more composted manure to potato and bean trenches, but not to other planting areas. All I can say is it seems to work for me.
Regards
Bluecar
I have raised beds and been doing it the same way for 40 years dig across the bed remove 18 inches of soil back fill with manure and covering with the soil as I work back then 6 inches on top as a top coat. not had any problems. Yes you get of wood shavings but over a 12 month it all breaks down. Gavin you have worked wonders on that plot of yours if you only came 3rd put a photo up of the plot that won it would love to see it. The best way to answer this what ever works for you do :wave:
Quote from: rugbypost on November 12, 2013, 20:27:53
I have raised beds and been doing it the same way for 40 years dig across the bed remove 18 inches of soil back fill with manure and covering with the soil as I work back then 6 inches on top as a top coat. not had any problems. Yes you get of wood shavings but over a 12 month it all breaks down. Gavin you have worked wonders on that plot of yours if you only came 3rd put a photo up of the plot that won it would love to see it. The best way to answer this what ever works for you do :wave:
Hi Rugbypost - unfortunately my neighbours plot that won was not really "photographable" easily and the owner was a rather strange lady so could not get a pic of it. Mine was as good - if not better but hers had bigger veg in it. I also had far more variety.. The second placed plot was not as good as mine. I believe the judge also hates to see people growing through weed fabric so no hope for me.. Now I grow loads with it so could be a problem - but judging should not be selective.. This year I only got a highly commended along with some really rubbish trash.
I'm not really pleased with the judging as it is and now that i'm on the committee i'm going to try to get a judging "team" and do it on a points system.
Has anyone got any pointers for a point system?
Firstly Gavin send them to Specsavers :glasses9: keep to what you are doing it looks good to me you have resourced , and recycled nearly everything and with work your a winner mate you don't need prizes just show them what you have grown. :wave:
Quote from: rugbypost on November 12, 2013, 21:57:54
Firstly Gavin send them to Specsavers :glasses9: keep to what you are doing it looks good to me you have resourced , and recycled nearly everything and with work your a winner mate you don't need prizes just show them what you have grown. :wave:
Oh yeah - I do it for fun and not for show. I love it and just cant spend enough time as I used to due to a second part time job.. but still managed to grow 580 kg this year!!
Wow! I seem to have got some serious replies and it really shows how different we all are! Thanks!
And I should say that our horse manure is free, and as it can be collected by the wheelbarrow load it's also CO2 correct! I certainly wouldn't pay for it!
Maybe the "well-rotted" has to do with getting rid of grass seeds, etc. I sometimes get a wheat plant - but they are so easy to see and pull up it's not really a problem.
I am beginning to get an idea that "well-rotted" is a gardening myth. Like trimming roots of leeks before planting out - but maybe that should be under another post.
Quote from: gavinjconway on November 12, 2013, 16:51:01
Take a look at my plot blog here and see how I use it and what it produces.. www.gavinconway.net
Your plot transformation pictures are chockful of ideas and very inspiring, Gavin. How many mice did the corn/wire/tub catch do you think? A very clever idea.