Ah sometimes it can be a trial being on a site!
The site manager had a chat to me yesterday, firstly about the grass that is invading the paths around my plot. I have been trying to control it, by removing the path matter with a pickaxe (totally backbreaking) or cutting painstakingly with grass scissors!!! Well, I think that remarks were made about the grass; but when the manager called the council to ask if they could not send a machine to scrape all the paths free, the answer was that there is nothing wrong with grass and that it was a natural phenomenon! But they may lend us a lawnmower, which would be such a help!!!
Anyway, the main discussion was about my plot. A couple of people (actually I think just one with a loud voice) complain that there is cardboard on the site. I explained to the manager what the cardboard is for, that it is a way to stop weeds growing, facilitate digging and stop the spread of weeds onto other people's plots!!! Also they do not understand why I have piles of rotting weeds at various spots : this is because I let them rot down then either put them in the compost or use them as mulch. I don't work to a "clean soil" policy! The site manager understood this and said that she would explain to them. I use no weedkiller or insecticide, and only natural fertilizers and compost. I work by "what is on the plot stays on the plot".
But it annoys me that that firstly the person does not come and talk to me about it and that secondly they think that an allotment must be perfectly esthetic, with clean soil etc. But a field of crops is not particularly esthetic!! surely what matters is that things grow and we get crops? if a patch is not perfectly weeded at some point, well either it will get a good hoeing or it will get weeded a bit later on. Most of the people on these sites are retired and can spend every day there removing every blade of grass!! they also use methods that do not seem to be to be very "organic" and many still use weedkillers. As I cannot be present every day, I use cardboard to suppress weeds. It may not be pretty but does that matter?
Do you think that it is important for an allotment to look good? Or am I just not fussy enough?
I think above all allotmenteers should not bother themselves with what other allotmenteers do on their plots.
Yes, I think an impressively tidy allotment is a glorious thing, but for me allotments are a place to relax and do your own thing, growing your flowers fruit and veg however it pleases you, within some basic limits.
Grass makes an excellent path, but it does need to be mowed - it's not really a path if it isn't mowed, more like a very thin meadow.
I really like the fact that people use different ways of growing, there is always something new to learn or try...but...as long as their 'experiments' do not affect my plot by blowing weed seeds over it for example. A neat plot looks nice but requires hard work to get it that way and regular time to keep it that way. I work full time and cannot get to the lottie every day, and I don't feel it fair to judge my plot against those who can.
An example is my prolific forget-me-not's which have self seeded all over my plot, and I just pull them up if they try and go somewhere I don't want them. I like them, I leave them in until they finish flowering and then compost them. Two contrasting comments from other plot holders......one saying how pretty my plot looked because of them, another saying I should 'sort those bloody blue weeds out!' Guess which one I ignored........ :tongue3:
:toothy10: exactly Deb!
Well the paths - actually they are supposed to be concrete, or some kind of hard surface but with time, soil moves onto them and inevitably they are invaded by weeds and grass. And if I spend all my time moving soil from the paths I will never dig the garden!!! But as we don't have a mower, it's a pain to sort it out. Our assoc does have money in its kitty, we should just buy a lawnmower! Actually a strimmer too would be ideal, for every one to share. If I could just strim down around my shed etc it would look a million times tidier.
But I try not to let weeds grow that will spread! Which is why I try to cover and mulch!!! Seems like a no brainer!
It seems that men like straight rows, OH keeps asking me where my line is. I don't have one, just plant in spaces, and sometimes plants grow better mixed up with other plants, but it does seem to annoy him that everything is mixed up, so normally leave him at home. Long grass is a problem this year, as OH hasn't been up with the motor mower and I need new shears and a scythette. Luckily the path one side that OH usually cuts isn't my path, so told my allotment neighbour and he is dealing with it, as played the OAP card. The other side is officially mine so I am working on that. I don't use weed killer and find some of the tidy plots do. I have an overgrown plot at the end and on one side, and it is annoying, will show you pictures when I recharge my batteries on camera. Well just off to try and do some weeding. I have 3 big heaps of grass, as can't have a bonfire until October, so am bringing some grass and weeds home every day to put in my Council recycling bin. The grass takes ages to rot down, but am going to mix some of it with the horse manure that has been delivered. I am quite pleased that some of the plots are worse than mine, because it means that I won't get a non-cultivation notice from the Council (I hope). One of my first allotment friends hasn't been up for ages, and he was up every day, so hope he is OK. His very tidy plot has now become very overgrown, it doesn't take long before nature reclaims the land.
The worst thing is when people take on a plot but then never come
to do anything to it. If you are going regularly, it's nobody's business
how you manage your plot.
A few years ago I visited another allotment site and was amazed at
how tidy it was. It was only a small site, but every plot was immaculate
and there were no weeds in sight. I hated it. It was like a house where
you can't relax because it is super-tidy and not a thing is out of place.
It was a relief to come back to Walsall Rd where we have a real mixture
of gardening styles.
Like Deb with her forget me nots, I have Phacelia all over the place and
I just leave it to grow, wherever it comes up.
As for whether it's important for a plot to look good - we all have different
ideas of what looks good and we are never going to make everyone happy.
I have been on our plot for around 25 years and have always tried to keep a tidy plot, in fact one year(about 20 years ago)I won "Best individual plot" and I didn't even realise I was in a competition.
Not until recently has emphasis been put on "general plot tidiness"simply because there is a competitive streak in some of the younger plot holders and they want to win the best " allotment site" something we have done four times out of the last five years ( we were second the other time)
As a consequence of this, some of the plot holders are having a bad time of it, for similar reasons to you.
Personally i don't bother, as I say my plot is as I want it, and if the judges don't like it or indeed other plot holders want to tidy things up then let them help those in need of help rather than giving snide remarks behind peoples back.
I go to my plot for "My Benefit" not to satisfy the ego of the competitive lot.
The irony of it was, the year we came in second the secretaries plot was the worst kept plot on the site but no one commented on that.
A couple of years ago the secretary moved to a well kept plot,complete with a tunnel, and a new tenant ( who has 'work commitment')took on his old plot. the new new tenant is struggling to get the plot up to scratch, and guess who is making the most noise about it.........yes! You have guessed it.....the secretary.
So for me it would suit me better if there was no competition on the site ,but thats not to say the site should become a tip. personally I think it is in human nature to keep areas tidy , trouble is; how do you define.....TIDY?
So you have my sympathy!
As a member of the committee that runs our plot I (we) take the line that everyone gardens in a different way and we have a minimal set of rules to reflect that. We do not like uncultivated plots full of weeds but aside from that we try to stay out of the way. I don't understand why some people want uniformity..
some people only have things growing for 4 months of the year! I try at least to have some things in for every season and it only starts to empty by about November when I start growing... cardboard!!!
But it is hardly uncultivated! There is only a small space free now (covered) and I now have in spuds, alliums (if these wormy things don't eat them all), tomatoes, squash, peppers, beans, broad beans, salad, carrots, chard and a mix of flowers. about 20 of my plot is permanent with fruit, artichokes and herbs and I try to mulch that. But I admit that I often have weeds in between rows, I hoe as much as possible but I do not lift the hoed weeds, I leave them to rot "in situ". maybe that is what annoys them? It must be said that this method is perhaps untidy. But does it really matter?
If I could get hold (for free) of something more attractive than cardboard, say that black agricultural plastic that farmers use on haystacks, I certainly would use that! But I don't, and cardboard is free and effective. When I took off the cardboard yesterday, I simply tidied up the edges, worked some compost and pellets into the ground with the pick, raked over, put in my stake and the climbing beans were sown!!! in a matter of minutes. It's a heck of a lot less work than digging over a patch full of weeds and does not much disturb the ecosystem.
I guess it is a question of attitude. I like to see plots where everything is nicely in rows with labels etc but if they are not, that is fine too with me! But i don't understand why people pass judgment on other people's plots, when it is obvious that they are full of crops (and so evidently being used!!). I think that I would have preferred it if the person had come and asked me about the cardboard directly.
I would love a strimmer though, I wonder if Father Christmas would bring me one!???
Antipodes...if it makes you feel any better..we have the same battles going over here too.
Of course it is nice to see very tidy plot..but they don't necessary grow any more veg or the plants looking any better than those plants that have more 'companions'.
My growing is on the messy side too... I don't mind letting nature to do its own things by self seeding flowers and I have weed piles all over the place drying out...straw used as mulch etc. I like the seing soil surface covered rather than seeing bare soil.
Most of my neighbours are fine with my way..but there is always one that give me grief and is 'talking loud' and dropping hints with their 'proper ways' when ever I'm nearby. Majority of the gardens weed enough to get crops growing and only few are true 'model' plots.
Everybody to their own..
Theres those in life who will always want something to complain about. I wouldn't mind betting that you get more lb weight per yard than they do and thats whats really rocking their boat. Variety is the spice of life so I'm told, so smile a lot and don't give them another thought.
I would tell them to mind their own fecking business, the site sec or council don't seem to complain, so I don't see it's anyone else's business. For the record I grow in straight rows because its easier to see where the seedlings are coming up, easier to space the plants and easier to walk up and down the rows and water. :icon_cheers:
I don't even use the same methods on my plot/s.
Anyway - if anyone ever asks me about anything on my plot and I know it's a 'dig' I say 'it's a trial'. And then I mumble about when I measured the area and covered it/sowed it with a non-companion plant that is supposed to keep couch grass down/ etc etc and just leave it at that.
As promised, this is not my allotment, but the one on the end from me, and one at the side. Think Council has sent out notices, as was told that they had sprayed the one at the end. I suppose you could call it a meadow. Just got home at 8 pm, so much to do, I really need to get that scythette or whatever. Luckily two nice young men are going to cut the paths for me, not my path, but they didn't know that, so that is good news. What do you think about these two lovely allotments.
Maybe handing the complainer a copy of an article about using cardboard as an organic method would give them pause to consider they don't know everything about everything. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/organic/msg0319362217650.html (http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/organic/msg0319362217650.html) The written word is stronger than the sword!
I've gone completely to no-dig using cardboard/newspaper and covering them with leaf mulch (preferred) or pine needles or, in less visible areas, wads of dried out weeds.
Even the auspicious Royal Horticultural Society recommend cardboard.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/Gardening/Grow-Your-Own/Allotments/All-content/Getting-started/Basic-groundwork
We have about 50 allotments on site and we have 50 different methods. As long as your method does not adversely affect a neighbour I do not think it should matter.
Quote from: Borlotti on June 10, 2013, 21:15:25
As promised, this is not my allotment, but the one on the end from me, and one at the side. What do you think about these two lovely allotments.
Heavens surely that is not a cultivated plot?
Mine does NOT look like that!!!
Last year at same time it looked more or less the same, like this (except I think I had no cardboard down then as the weather was better).
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/antipodes_photo/garden%202012/compost_end_may2012.jpg)
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/antipodes_photo/garden%202012/tenders_may2012.jpg)
(img]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/antipodes_photo/garden%202012/top_end_may2012.jpg(/img]
If there wasn't so much blimmin' grass it would be better!!!!
I don't really think that I get more than others but I suppose I do grow different things - loads of raspberries and gooseberries which always look messy somehow, and I let flowers self seed all over the shop and just hack them out if they get in the way of a real crop. Seems better to let the insects have flowers than a bare row... As I didn't get any straw to mulch this year I have been mulching a lot with dried grass or rotten weeds, which admittedly don't always look great (but a big pile of manure doesn't look terrific either!!! and we all love that!).
Thanks for the comments that cheered me up!
Quote from: BarriedaleNick on June 10, 2013, 15:00:46
As a member of the committee that runs our plot I (we) take the line that everyone gardens in a different way and we have a minimal set of rules to reflect that. We do not like uncultivated plots full of weeds but aside from that we try to stay out of the way. I don't understand why some people want uniformity..
You can come and run ours.
My plot, around 300sq Meters. is starting to look like the inside of my head. :drunken_smilie:
All the plants are in straight lines but of varying length, because I want a twisty path. I want people to wonder what is around that corner or this curve.
I want structure that will last all winter to slow the cruel winter winds that come from the Irish Sea we can see a mile or so away.
I also want my shed to be of some real use instead of just somewhere to stuff tools, so I've built (am building) it with a good-sized south-facing green (artificial turf) wall I can possibly grow more tender plants. The north and west sides (Facing the prevailing winds) taper somewhat, to help keep it all from blowing away. (Providing I can get it finished before we have any big storms.) :)
It also has lots of home-made twirly things and pop-bottle windmills to scare the birds, and a small pond full of frogs that will repay me for housing them by chomping as many slugs as their little frog-bellies can hold.
What's not to like? :)
shedMay2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39243143@N03/9027327101/) by Nefariousenator (http://www.flickr.com/people/39243143@N03/), on Flickr
Shed-May (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39243143@N03/9029546064/) by Nefariousenator (http://www.flickr.com/people/39243143@N03/), on Flickr
Wow I really like the look of your allotment Antipodes. Does the shed come as part of the deal?
I can't see nothing wrong with you allotment...it looks like it is tended with love and not with obsession.
Yes..sheds look good. Does each plot come with one or one to share with?
QuoteWhat's not to like? :)
Indeed..and your shed has its own 'personality' :icon_cheers: If it 'works' and fit to purpose..why not...
Love your shed Nigel B!!!
The sheds are there as part of the plot, what you see is a group of four sheds, back to back, each one is about 3 square metres inside. We get one each but some are empty as there are 2 shed for one plot, in case of sharing, so many contain various bits of equipment, bales of straw etc.
You can't really see all the grass round the edges on my photos!!!! LOL, I would love to have everything in straight lines etc but that will only happen when I retire and can spend every day over there! Only another 20 years to go!
If you are not a straight line person, I doubt whether in 20 years this will change, however much time you might thing you will have. :icon_cheers:
I think your plot looks normal for an allotment. I find the people who can't grow are the one's that complain. We always get comments that we plant to close or we plant to much. We just ignore them.
Quote from: antipodes on June 11, 2013, 16:54:16
Quote from: Borlotti on June 10, 2013, 21:15:25
As promised, this is not my allotment, but the one on the end from me, and one at the side. What do you think about these two lovely allotments.
Heavens surely that is not a cultivated plot?
Mine does NOT look like that!!!
Last year at same time it looked more or less the same, like this (except I think I had no cardboard down then as the weather was better).
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/antipodes_photo/garden%202012/compost_end_may2012.jpg)
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/antipodes_photo/garden%202012/tenders_may2012.jpg)
(img]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q319/antipodes_photo/garden%202012/top_end_may2012.jpg(/img]
If there wasn't so much blimmin' grass it would be better!!!!
I don't really think that I get more than others but I suppose I do grow different things - loads of raspberries and gooseberries which always look messy somehow, and I let flowers self seed all over the shop and just hack them out if they get in the way of a real crop. Seems better to let the insects have flowers than a bare row... As I didn't get any straw to mulch this year I have been mulching a lot with dried grass or rotten weeds, which admittedly don't always look great (but a big pile of manure doesn't look terrific either!!! and we all love that!).
Thanks for the comments that cheered me up!
I wish you were my plot neighbour. The 2 neighbours we have are worse than Borlotti's pics.
in fact we have several plots around like Borlotti.
We fight with the d**n weeds from 3 sides. I think cardboard is a perfectly sensible thing to use to control weeds.
If the moaner on your plot had ourneighbours he would have something to moan about!!
It is very odd that in France they seem to be slow to pick up newer methods, especially of organic gardening. I was one of the first on our site to use mulch, and compost my waste, then also the first to use cardboard. I must add that many of the others use a rotovator, and completely empty their plots every February, rotovate the whole lot and start with a completely blank slate. As I have at least 1/4 plot with perennials I cannot do that, also I have it divided into 4 beds so I can rotate the plots. which means I tend to cover 3 beds while I sort out one (onions first), then the spuds and so on.
I hope we can soon borrow a mower or a strimmer, if I had one of those I would be laughing.
We were lucky enough to come across some long handles grass shears from a cheap shop & we also have a little push mower that was reduced in Argos. The path 112'x6' & then we have behind the plot. Ours is only a half plot so really our path is 56'x3' but OH does it all. It wouldn't get done otherwise.
I wish we could embrace each others ways except a spray for every ill. One of our plot neighbours shows his produce so sprays such a lot. Different methods are certainly a great topic for conversation. We have 2 no diggers, an old lady who tootles around & still gets enough for her needs. She has a blackcurrant tree, & yes I do mean tree. It's at least 10'high but very productive. Next door has at least 1/3 of her plot uncultivated, just a rubbish dump. I wish we were a communal type of site that could muck in & help each other out but it just doesn't seem to happen, in fact I think it's frowned on.
We have several who more or less clear their plots once a year. But I have loads of things which are still there. I tend to have to evict something when I need a space.
I do not agree with bare soil. I simply do not have any. Every inch is growing something, even weeds can be fed to the compost bin. I have parsnip plants which are now enormous I like the fact they attract insects.
Our worst plots are 6 ft high in weeds.
Sorry but I need to hijack this for a little rant. OH cut the path last week. He moved 9 bags of rubbish that belonged to our neighbour. He's been told to clean up his plot. His growing space gets smaller each year because he doesn't do any weeding. A lot of his plot is covered in ground elder that is now encroaching on his elderly NDN plot. We went up yesterday as OH wants to keep on top of the grass cutting. The idiot :BangHead:, not OH, has moved the bags of rubbish back onto the path. He does have a car but lives at the back of the site. He has a half plot like us but at least 1/3 is under weeds & rubbish. OH says I shouldn't complain to site rep so I'm hoping he will notice & say something anyway.
Sorry rant over :wave:
Maybe it's the old story about one man's trash, another man's treasure? I do have random bits of wood, or big rocks, mainly to anchor things, and I do have one or two black bags full of weeds nicely rotting in the sun. But I wouldn't leave them all over the place or in front of my neighbour's plot!!! I am lucky that the only invasive weed is bindweed and we all have that. No marestail or such.
I am starting to look pensively at ads for strimmers in the hardware shop catalogues... knowing my luck it would get pinched :-(
His bags of rubbish are bags of grass that he's cut down from his plot, an empty chicken manure tub & his kneeling mat. He's got 5 years worth of raspberry prunings on an 18'x10' bed that he hasn't used in 4 years. We have a 91 year old who doesn't drive so anything that she can't compost she takes home with her.
I've always found allotments fascinating places from being a young child, I remember seeing them from trains & feeling excited. A great place to be even in Winter. We have a show grower & he's always ready to give advice.
Quote from: goodlife on June 13, 2013, 09:18:33
QuoteWhat's not to like? :)
Indeed..and your shed has its own 'personality' :icon_cheers: If it 'works' and fit to purpose..why not...
Sadly, it seems to have failed the nosy-test and must be pulled down...... Also my rabbit-proof fencing, using a plastic mesh instead of chicken-wire, has to go.... on the threat of losing the plot in less than a month!
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,75202.msg775885.html#msg775885
We've only had our plot since Feb and we are struggling to keep it clear, but we are lucky as the neighbours on either side are very understanding. We have a hedge on one side so they can't see over with just a quick glance, but the lady who has it has been there for years and years.. On the other side, the fence has gone (it was only about 18inches high) and the brambles have taken over.. we keep cutting them back and try to keep it tidy so it doesn't go all over our other neighbours plot..
Our plot was left in a pretty shoddy state, the previous tennants didn't even bother removing all of their rubbish.. big plastic kids toys (wendy house, bubble car and plastic crane) as well as not bothering to leave the key for the padlock on the shed.. Until we have the money to hire a skip, we have their rubbish still on our plot.. The shed was literally full of stuff.. old cd player, trainers, old onion sets, and just lots of what could be termed as crap! We had to practically take the shed door off the hinges to put anything in it.. everything got put into bags so we could actually use it for our tools. The rubbish is the most depressing thing on our plot..but we are using it to our advantage now as last night we saw that someone had been over the wall from the adjoining garden (the flattened, dead nettles were a big giveaway).. if the try getting over now, they will be scraping against the old wheelbarrows and stuff.. Not doing it to be mean, I just don't want them on our allotment and I certainly don't want anymore of their cider cans on there either...
They have even attacked our waterbutt :(
]http://www.flickr.com/photos/99520482@N05/9389561629/] (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99520482@N05/9389561629/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99520482@N05/9389562779/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99520482@N05/9389562779/)
Sorry.. just had to rant.. it is getting me down
It's disgraceful that they were allowed to leave it in that condition! As ours is an association, the person must come back and clear the plot, at least from all of their belongings, and leave the shed empty (unless I guess they wish to leave tools etc for the next person).
Ours is an association too, and we were told that they would be contacting them to come and clear it.. but nothing was done. So now we are saving every spare penny we can to hire a skip to get rid of it. If we ever give the plot up (not likely as we're both loving having some outdoor space) we will make sure we leave it in a tidy condition with nothing left for them to have to clear.
As said it shouldn't be your responsibility to clear the crap, there could be some good wood/branches to there for reuse, I'm not a bonfire person but as a one off you should be able to clear a lot of it and sprinkle the ashes around your plot. If it's anything like where I live, take home the kids toys, a quick wash and leave them out the front and someone will take them, or just stick them on freecycle/freegle. Soil looks OK though, happy digging. :wave:
Unfortunately we couldn't do that with the toys as they all had splits in them and with it being that hard, rigid plastic designed for outside. We had to take care when dismantling the house due to some of the jagged edges.
We have done one big bonfire so far, found 2 metal dustbins which we use at the moment for burning the stuff we cut down. We'd rather have a compost heap but until we've cleared the rubbish and flattened the heaps of soil ((which I'm sure is from the dug out pond) behind the bench, we don't have anywhere to start one (only place at the moment would be slap bang in the middle of a potential bed).. I'm sure we will get there............................eventually!
I do not think that you should have to deal with all that rubbish. It is a good case for requiring a deposit, so there is money in the kitty to clear things up. Though our £25 deposit is just not enough to clean up that sort of a mess.
I do not think it is fair for someone to leave you to have to pay to clear up their mess. I think I would contact the council and ask them for advice.
Can you take it a bit at a time to the tip. (Household recycling centre)
Quote from: lady_bug on July 29, 2013, 11:10:19
We've only had our plot since Feb and we are struggling to keep it clear, but we are lucky as the neighbours on either side are very understanding. We have a hedge on one side so they can't see over with just a quick glance, but the lady who has it has been there for years and years.. On the other side, the fence has gone (it was only about 18inches high) and the brambles have taken over.. we keep cutting them back and try to keep it tidy so it doesn't go all over our other neighbours plot..
Our plot was left in a pretty shoddy state, the previous tennants didn't even bother removing all of their rubbish.. big plastic kids toys (wendy house, bubble car and plastic crane) as well as not bothering to leave the key for the padlock on the shed.. Until we have the money to hire a skip, we have their rubbish still on our plot.. The shed was literally full of stuff.. old cd player, trainers, old onion sets, and just lots of what could be termed as crap! We had to practically take the shed door off the hinges to put anything in it.. everything got put into bags so we could actually use it for our tools. The rubbish is the most depressing thing on our plot..but we are using it to our advantage now as last night we saw that someone had been over the wall from the adjoining garden (the flattened, dead nettles were a big giveaway).. if the try getting over now, they will be scraping against the old wheelbarrows and stuff.. Not doing it to be mean, I just don't want them on our allotment and I certainly don't want anymore of their cider cans on there either...
They have even attacked our waterbutt :(
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3794/9389561629_7b02f42e8e_k.jpg)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2821/9389562779_2e79ca0327_k.jpg)
Sorry.. just had to rant.. it is getting me down
Changed your image code for you, thats an appalling mess to inherit. Good luck with it and your intruders