Allotments 4 All

Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Unwashed on April 18, 2013, 18:56:41

Title: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 18, 2013, 18:56:41
It's that time of year again:  BAK has asked me to collate the rents we pay so that we can keep tabs on how the allotment movement is fairing in the tight economic climate of public spending cuts and real-terms cuts in our wages.

Ideally I would like to know how much a 10 pole plot (== 10 rod == 10 perch == 250 square metres == 300 square yards) would cost to rent on your site for this current growing season.

If you know the all-in cost for a 10 pole plot please tell me that, and if you don't know that please tell me how much you pay yourself and the size of your plot.

So please tell me:

how much to rent a 10 pole plot on your site, or if you don't know that, how much you pay and the size of your plot.
include in the cost any separate water charges and any compulsory association fees, but excluding any optional fees.

Please also say if your site is: private, or council, and if it's council please say if the site committee collect rents, do the site maintenance, and pay the water bill.

Great stuff, thanks very much.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Flighty on April 18, 2013, 19:11:15
My recent yearly rental charge payable to Harrow Council was £20-80 for a half plot.  That's £4-26 per pole, concession of £2-13 per pole and water charge (no concession) £2-13 per pole.
Surprisingly it's the same amount as charged last year.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: manicscousers on April 18, 2013, 19:33:28
still 22 p per square metre but we have a 10.00 per person per year insurance/ NSALG charge now.
Private and all the sites are a different size  :happy7:
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: daveylamp993 on April 18, 2013, 20:07:12
Manicscousers . . you should get your site to join the allotments and gardens council uk,they are much better than N.S.A.L.G and have a very good insurance scheme,discounted seeds,seeds potatoes etc,if you want the contact number please send me a PM on here and i will glady send it too you.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Bill Door on April 18, 2013, 20:33:39
£50 for 10 poles.  We have been told that the cost is going up to £60 for 10 poles in October.

Bill
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: manicscousers on April 18, 2013, 20:45:54
Quote from: daveylamp993 on April 18, 2013, 20:07:12
Manicscousers . . you should get your site to join the allotments and gardens council uk,they are much better than N.S.A.L.G and have a very good insurance scheme,discounted seeds,seeds potatoes etc,if you want the contact number please send me a PM on here and i will glady send it too you.
Thanks but we're ok for this year and will be going with RHS insurance next year  :happy7:
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: bluecar on April 18, 2013, 21:07:04
Hello Unwashed.

£14.00 per 10 poles inclusive of water. Additional compulsory £3.00 Nat Assoc membership inclusive of insurance. Council owned but total self management.

It will be interesting to see a year on year comparison.

Thank you for yet again taking on this task.

Regards

Bluecar
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 18, 2013, 21:35:49
Quote from: Flighty on April 18, 2013, 19:11:15
My recent yearly rental charge payable to Harrow Council was £20-80 for a half plot.  That's £4-26 per pole, concession of £2-13 per pole and water charge (no concession) £2-13 per pole.
Surprisingly it's the same amount as charged last year.
Hi Flighty, thanks for that.  In the finished table I'll list your site without the concession because I want to compares a standard all-int 10 pole rent.

Can you say please if the site committee collects rents, does the site maintenance, and pays the water bill.  I'd like to collect this info to see if there's any correlation of cost with level of self-management.  Thanks.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 18, 2013, 21:39:43
Quote from: daveylamp993 on April 18, 2013, 20:07:12
Manicscousers . . you should get your site to join the allotments and gardens council uk,they are much better than N.S.A.L.G and have a very good insurance scheme,discounted seeds,seeds potatoes etc,if you want the contact number please send me a PM on here and i will glady send it too you.
Hi Daveylamp, can you tell us your plot rent?
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 18, 2013, 21:41:57
Quote from: Bill Door on April 18, 2013, 20:33:39
£50 for 10 poles.  We have been told that the cost is going up to £60 for 10 poles in October.
Hi Bill Door

Can you say please if you're council or private and whether the site committee collects rents, does the site maintenance, and pays the water bill.  I'd like to collect this info to see if there's any correlation of cost with level of self-management.  Thanks.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: squeezyjohn on April 19, 2013, 00:52:56
My allotments are private I think (owned by St. John's College Oxford and administered by a single allotment holder who lives nearest).  There is no water supply on the site - just collect what comes out of the sky!

I have a half-plot which is about 5 poles - the plots seem to be only roughly 10 poles and vary slightly.

My rent is £15 per year plus £5 for the key (returnable) - I don't know if the whole plots pay £30 or whether it's just £15 per person.  I will ask when I'm next up there.

Cheers

Squeezy
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: cornykev on April 19, 2013, 05:44:57
Council site
£9.50 per pole + water £1.35 per pole
My 6 pole = £65.10
10  pole = £108.50
Just paid this week.   
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Squash64 on April 19, 2013, 06:04:38
201 - 400 sq.yds. £75 (£37.50 for over 60s)

Council owned, self-managed.  We collect the rent and keep 60%.

Rent includes water charge, but not Association fee of £5 per year.

Currently, contractors do site maintenance of grass and shrubbery but this will change due to reorganisation of the Allotments Dept.  We are responsible for maintaining buildings, the Council for underground pipes.

Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: BAK on April 19, 2013, 07:40:42
Sunningdale ... we only have one 10 pole plot now. The rent for it is £30 (up from £28 last year). Plots vary in size with the average being around 5 poles (rent £15 up from £14 last year).

This is a parish council-run site. The rent includes water which the council pays for. There is no association or anything else that requires a fee. So no compulsory or optional payments.

Council collects the rent and does some of the site maintenance although the majority is done by plot holders.

Thanks for doing this Unwashed.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: goodlife on April 19, 2013, 08:35:56
Private site, no running water provided but members do have  use of communal wells. We currently pay £6 per year (membership fee), regardless of the size of the plot and that £6 include insurance.
There is one off share purchase price when allotment is been taken over for the members (price depend of the size of the plot) and the same value (or updated value in later date) is returned back when the plot holder is giving up his shares.
It cost me £25 to purchase share for 20 pole size plot 'some years ago'..though we are in process of updating the share values.
Any new members joining from this year are having to pay new share value for the plots, what is about double for the old one.

Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Bill Door on April 19, 2013, 19:00:38
it is Council run and includes everything.

Admittedly the council don't do much on the site.

On another note we have a few plots that are not cultivated well but nothing seems to be done.

Not sure of the waiting list but there are a few plots empty now.

Bill
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 19, 2013, 22:38:22
Thanks all - please keep the data coming.

Not enough samples yet for a clear picture, but looking interesting already:

average £4.45/pole
average council £5.74/pole
average private £2.53/pole
average council-admin £6.31/pole
average self-admin £3.22/pole
average council-maintained £7.44/pole
average self-maintained £2.47/pole

Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Nigel B on April 20, 2013, 08:29:55
Hi Unwashed.

10m * 30m plot (10 poles or thereabouts) basic rent £25. No raise since last year.
Water no charge yet.

The council own it and have appointed a committee to run it. The town clerk sends out the reminders and payments are made to the council although there is supposed to be a treasurer. (shrug)


Site maintainence is yet to happen. I strim around my own plot as it seems to be everyone for themselves so far.

(These fools are renting plots out to non-residents too)
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: handsfull on April 20, 2013, 17:26:02
I have a "full plot" which I think is just under 10 rods. I paid £30 for the plot (half plots are £20), £7 to join the Allotment Association, and £10 deposit for the key. The site is Council Leased (it's in a neighbouring borough) and non-Council managed. There are communal water tanks dotted around. Maintenance is carried out by volunteers every Sunday 10-12pm. I think the site is in pretty good shape.

Hope that helps! Very interesting to compare. By the way I think that the cost for plots in the site opposite ours, which is run by a different Council, is £90, but I don't have any other details. 
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: macmac on April 20, 2013, 18:07:25
:We are council owned,self-managed. Our plots are measured front to back linear measure only.                    $1 per metre ( sorry no pound sign on this flippin'kindle :BangHead:) we have two plots one is 26 metres and the other is 28 meters strange but they seem to be the same length but one is a little wider.  :dontknow:
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Tee Gee on April 20, 2013, 19:15:06
Council owned!

Rates include water supply (approx  1 tap per two plots)

Plot size 60ft x 30 ft (20 yds x 10 yds)

Annual rent £21-28*

*  pensioners are charged 50% of full rate

So I get my two for the price of one.

I will leave you to do the maths on poles, rods & perches I am not a very good fisherman!

I would end up with the proverbial answer......it was this big <........................................>
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 20, 2013, 21:05:01
Quote from: macmac on April 20, 2013, 18:07:25
:We are council owned,self-managed. Our plots are measured front to back linear measure only.                    $1 per metre ( sorry no pound sign on this flippin'kindle :BangHead:) we have two plots one is 26 metres and the other is 28 meters strange but they seem to be the same length but one is a little wider.  :dontknow:
Thanks macmac

To allow me to make a comparable cost per area I'm going to assume a typical plot is 5m wide - let me know if that is wildly out.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: macmac on April 20, 2013, 21:59:58
I'll measure on our next visit  :happy7:
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Digeroo on April 21, 2013, 06:36:02
No increase in price so whatever you had for me last year.  Private site,  includes water, and path mowing and hedge maintenance and use of communal shed, but no security fencing.     No concessions.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: French-Dream on April 21, 2013, 13:26:52
We've only just started in Feb this year,  our site is owned by the diocese of Warwick.  We pay by Feb/March, for our plot which is classed as half a plot...around 50 yards by 5 yards (that's me stepping it out) £24 which includes all the water we what.
We have a committee that runs the site & collects rents, the site is full with no unattended plots and we have a short waiting list of 3 folks...(as stated at our AGM)

We are also having an open day in July, can't wait for it. :sunny:
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Tee Gee on April 21, 2013, 13:57:49
QuoteWe are also having an open day in July, can't wait for it. :sunny:


This comment reminded me of ours in 2012.....needless to say ...."it rained"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tee_gee/sets/72157630359326768/show/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tee_gee/sets/72157630359326768/show/)

and this was the year before;

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/tgalmanac/slideshow/Open%20day%202011?sort=4

Sorry for high jacking the thread but it does show you what we get for our £21-28
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: French-Dream on April 21, 2013, 16:28:27
Thanks Tee Gee for the photos...we enjoyed looking through them....this open day is part of the National garden scheme.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: kt. on April 21, 2013, 18:42:30
Our site is governed by the town council but self managed and includes water.

Rent:
£24 full plot,  (£14 pensioner)
£13 half plots (£8 Pensioner)

We are subsidised with £5000 that is split between us and public areas,  flower pots and seating / garden areas around the town.  At a guess, around £2500 of this subsides us directly.  If this goes then discretionary rates may cease because on current calculations, concessions are about £750 and our total rent collected is approximately £2200 and that would still leave a shortfall of around £2050...... But we will see.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 21, 2013, 19:16:16
Digeroo prompted me to dig out last year's survey, and here it is:  http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,71968.msg735922.html#msg735922

And here's the 2011 review: http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,66485.0.html
And the 2010 review: http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,57122.0.html
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 21, 2013, 20:25:13
Please keep them coming, the more samples we get the more accurate the picture.

Here's the latest:

Rates in £/pole
average   £4.11
average council   £4.57
average private   £2.60
average council-admin   £5.09
average self-admin   £3.28
average council-maintained   £6.59
average self-maintained   £2.76
                     
Number of Sites:
Council sites   11
Private sites   5
Self-administered   10
Council administered   6
Self-maintained   11
Council-maintained   5
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: pumkinlover on April 21, 2013, 20:46:24
£30 per 10 pole, council owned self admin.
Weary secretary.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 23, 2013, 09:39:47
*boing*

Any more for any more?
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: katynewbie on April 24, 2013, 07:01:58
Council owned site, managed by a committee. I have a half plot, total for the year £29.50. That is broken down as 15.50 for the plot, 4 for nsalg and our site committee, 10 for facilities, that is water, toilets, kitchen, shop. This is the same price as last year and I don't get any benefits, it is reduced if you do.

It's the best value hobby I know!
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Digeroo on April 24, 2013, 08:00:39
Thanks for doing this again.  I always enjoy the results. 

I still think I get very good value.  Last year I think I matched the rent in raspberries, though I would not have bought that amount.  At the moment I am easily saving the rent for the month with parsnips, rhubarb, cabbage spring greens and purple sprouting.   :blob7:

Not sure it is covering my seedoholic tendancy yet.  :BangHead:

Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 24, 2013, 08:54:40
Quote from: katynewbie on April 24, 2013, 07:01:58
Council owned site, managed by a committee. I have a half plot, total for the year £29.50. That is broken down as 15.50 for the plot, 4 for nsalg and our site committee, 10 for facilities, that is water, toilets, kitchen, shop. This is the same price as last year and I don't get any benefits, it is reduced if you do.

It's the best value hobby I know!
Thanks katynewbie

If I were to have a 10 pole plot on your site would that be a full plot?  Would I pay £59.00 for it, or woud it be £31.00 for the plot and a flat rate £14.00 for NSALG, committee, and facilities?
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: katynewbie on April 24, 2013, 08:58:46
Unwashed: £59 for full plot and £14 flat rate for other stuff, I think
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 24, 2013, 10:57:08
Quote from: katynewbie on April 24, 2013, 08:58:46
Unwashed: £59 for full plot and £14 flat rate for other stuff, I think
If it's a flat rate of £14 for the committee and facilities (and that seems natural) then I'm guessing it's £31 for the plot plus £14 for the flat rate stuff, so a total charge of £45 rather than £59.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Unwashed on April 24, 2013, 11:46:48
The analysis so far:  This is what our survey has suggested over the last four years.

With a statistical confidence of 90%

  average pole rate somewhere between    and most likely
2010 season                  £3.88 and £5.39                  £4.64
2011 season                  £2.94 and £4.30                  £3.62
2012 season                  £4.57 and £5.98                  £5.27
2013 season                  £3.33 and £5.27                  £4.30


What this demonstrates is that it's quite difficult to get an accurate picture of plot rates nationally from a relatively small number of samples when the rates from one site to another vary so wildly.  It seems unlikely that the average rate has actually reduced since last year or that rates are lower than they were four years ago, yet that's currently what this year's survey is suggesting.  Statistics allows us to quantify this uncertainty and that's how I've been able to say that with a confidence of 90% the national is within the given range, and 90% is not a particularly high degree of confidence.  A bigger sample would narrow that range but it would have to be very much bigger to make any real difference, like several hundred sites, because site rates do genuinely vary enormously - from less than £1/pole to more than £10/pole.

What this year's analysis has thrown up though is that there is a statistically significant difference in the rate for self-management, or specifically self-maintained sites as against council sites where the council do the maintenance.  This is what it looks like:


            average pole rate somewhere between    and most likely
average council-maintained      £4.47 and £8.71                  £6.59
average self-maintained           £2.62 and £4.21                  £3.42


And because those ranges don't overlap we can say with a statistical confidence of 90% that self-maintained is cheaper than council maintained.  You'd expect that of course, but it's nice to see that coming through from the survey.  How much cheaper is difficult to say because those ranges are still quite broad, but the best estimate is that the average self-maintained site charges £34.20 for a ten pole plot, and the average on a council-maintained site is £65.90.
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: carroteater on April 26, 2013, 13:01:55
300Sq Yards £38 (Leeds council are talking about increasing to £160 next year) + £18 water + £7 insurance + £5 association fee
Title: Re: The Big A4A Annual Rent Review - 2013 Season
Post by: Plot No.69 on April 26, 2013, 22:48:09
£30 per yr for 10 poles in Radlett, Herts. Includes water.