Is it possible to grow good, big veg without manure ?
I have tried this in the past but found that the yield of vegetables went down each year. There again perhaps I didn't use any fertiliser either.
We have access to some compost via household waste and grass cuttings from paths around the allotment as well as some comfrey leaves and have about two plastic bins of compost ready each year.
Please advise.
As you seem to be aware it is better if you use some.
However when in short supply I tend to use it to suit my rotation programme which is basically;
Year 1 Potatoes / Year 2 Brassicas / year 3 Others
So I muck the bed as heavilly as I can for potatoes, then the following year I put some in for the brassicas if I have it, and none for the others, then it is back to heavy mucking again.
So in your case use most of what you have in the potato bed and if you have any left put it in the brassica bed!
I add 2-3oz / sq yd of FB & B at planting out time! ( all beds mucked or otherwise)
That about all I can suggest...Tg
You certainly need something. There are various alternatives to manure but for me nothing is not one of them. But if your veg are getting gradually smaller they sound as if they are hungry and need feeding.
Quote from: davee52uk on December 10, 2012, 11:53:01
Is it possible to grow good, big veg without manure ?
I have tried this in the past but found that the yield of vegetables went down each year. There again perhaps I didn't use any fertiliser either.
I think you have answered you own question... Tried no manure and forgot to fertilize... = small veg..
I don`t use manure but I use hm compost, rock dust and bocking 14 comfrey. My veg are really good, probably the best on site. I rotate religiously, don`t use any grass in my compost and make sure I have the right % of brown matter from shredded cardboard. My compost heaps are treated carefully and I tip them over after emptying one. I don`t make compost in plastic, just in cardboard lined slatted wooden frames
Quote from: strawberry1 on December 12, 2012, 15:57:50
I don`t use manure but I use hm compost, rock dust and bocking 14 comfrey. My veg are really good, probably the best on site. I rotate religiously, don`t use any grass in my compost and make sure I have the right % of brown matter from shredded cardboard. My compost heaps are treated carefully and I tip them over after emptying one. I don`t make compost in plastic, just in cardboard lined slatted wooden frames
Thank you for this - some questions however:
1. Why don't you use grass cuttings ?
2. I have wild comfrey growing in various parts of the allotment, would it be worthwhile growing a bed of this ?
3. What's wrong with using a plastic compost bin ?
I have a load most years. Three weeks ago I had a really big load tipped at one end of the garden. Problem is I store it at the other end in a special double pallet bin that I have made and it always rains on the day/s that I move it i.e. as soon as possible after delivery.
I could not imagine having an allotment without manure it puts the goodness back in. I have improved my soil a terrific amount over the last 6 years. I hasten to add that I have 3 more pallet bins as well as the Manure one. Two for garden waste and grass clippings and one for leaves which I leave for at least a year before using. The leaves and clippings come from my home where I have a very big garden. All in all you will get very poor crops if you do not put something back into the soil. Most but not all of my colleagues at the allotment have at least one load every two years. The ones that don't get a poor harvest but that's up to them. I have a big family to feed.
I've got wild comfrey round my plot. Some say it seeds everywhere, but I haven't had any problem. The only drawback is that it's next to impossible to kill it.
I`m a bit wary of horse muck since I had bad experience with Aminopyralid so I now use compost - a lot of compost. At the moment I`m on my leaf patrol getting in as much as I can. together with kitchen waste, grass, bracken in fact anything that rots down. I made a three slatted wooden binned compost area holding a over a ton of the stuff in each bin. The finished compost I used where it is needed mixed in with chicken pellets and well rotted pigeon manure.
Also I have a couple of gallons of Comfrey liquid for feeding.
I always say that you only get out of the soil what you put back into it. Put nothing back and you end up getting nothing.
Dave there is a very good gardening rule which should ALWAYS be adhered to, and that is, never take out more than you put in. Assuming you are using a 3 year rotation system you should, manure 1 third of the plot, for gross feeders such as the onion family, peas and beans and potatoes. The 2nd third should be limed, for the Brassica family, ( which includes swedes, turnips and Kohl Rabi ) The 3rd section should be left untreated, this for your rootcrops, such as carrots parsnips and beetroot.
This year I just physically could not get manure in. I have decided that for one year it will probably be OK. I will compost-trench the beans and squash, and put in as much compost and other organic stuff as I can. I might be able to get some stable waste in to mulch with and that will probably do it for the next season. Manure is important I think, but I think that occasionally you can skip a season, without it :)
Antipodes the important thing is you are still applying lots of humus. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I have steered clear of manure recently because of the aminopyralid problem which still looks like it is not resolved http://www.dowagro.com/uk/aminopyralidsuspension.htm (http://www.dowagro.com/uk/aminopyralidsuspension.htm)!
It's difficult to ensure that you haven't got aminopyralid (or one of its structurally simliar compounds) contaminating the manure you get. Once you get it in it you have trouble for several years.
If you aren't organic you can use artificial fertilisers but you have to get the balance right.
If you want to be organic you can use commercial manure concentrates (like 6X etc) that (I presume) have been tested and are free of aminopyrallids.
My raised beds will have to do without manure this coming year. Everything too wet and I was not fit enough to fetch any or spread it either. I have very friable dark soil - no dig - so I'm thinking a year with maybe just chicken pellets and spreading the contents of one compost bin in the Spring will be okay.
Tricia
The constant rain will have leeched the soil very badly. So I will need something. I have access to a huge pile of manure but I am still very wary about using it. I am hoping the rain may have taken the last of the AP with it. The trouble with AP is that since we could not find how we got the problem in the first place, we cannot be sure that it has gone away.
One of the problems seems to be that the soil level of many of the plots on our site is sinking. The grass dividing paths are higher than the plots.
What do we think of straw? Barley straw I think.
I am unable to dig or carry a lot of water so I've been using a deep straw mulch on my plot, particularly on the spuds.
I would then give them the occasional liquid feed and compost tea drench through the growing season, and eventually rotavate the straw into the soil after cropping.
I had five bales of straw mulching my potatoes last year, and with good results, which is now all rotavated into about 1/5th to 1/4tr of the plot.
I have planted the area with some garlic, onions and broad bean seeds. I can see the garlic and onion sprouts, but nothing from the Broad Beans yet....
Will the use of straw cause problems down the line somewhere?