- like about dyes, so may I, about "NINE BRITISH milk farms A DAY" going out of business because the "big 4s" are buying EU unmonitered low welfare, high additive milk BECAUSE OF PUBLIC DEMAND. ??
No way - it's s*d the British producer if we can undercut our competitors!!
What with that, & the fact that the Union Jack can now mean "produced under very non-U & very unwholesome standards in the EU" makes me wonder who you can trust & what quality of life will be left for our progeny.
EEC rules - mutter, mutter......
Supermarkets - MUTTER, MUTTER......
British Consumers not know or caring what they are buying on the whole - MUTTER MUTTER MUTTER
:( :( :( :( :(
Jerry
  Over here the wholesale price of milk for the country is set on an open trading floor that operates in Milwaukee, Wisconsin (the M-W price). I’m not sure why Milwaukee was chosen as being representative of the whole country but it is almost equidistant between the coasts and Wisconsin used to be a major milk producing state. This price is supposed to cover the costs of production, allow a reasonable rate of return on investment and allow the farmers to make a reasonable living.
 When a country covers a continent the inevitable result is that using this system results in huge disparities in net income between those areas where it is cheap to produce crops compared to those where it is more expensive. Here in the North East, where land is seen as being in short supply, farmers have to pay taxes while in the West, where available land far exceeds the needs of the population, farmers are subsidized by the federal government to use the land (including, of course, the indirect subsidy of cheap roads and fuel). Between this and the lower costs of production in the South (Florida is now the third biggest milk producing state) due to the climate the numbers of N. E. farmers, as in the U.K., has declined precipitously in the past few decades.
  With the M-W price exceeding that needed to cover the cost of production in the West there was also a massive increase in production that lead to surpluses. In an attempt to reduce the surplus about 20 years ago the federal government introduced a programme, called the Whole Herd Buy-out, in which farmers voluntarily sold their entire herd to the government and contracted to drop out of farming. The unintended consequence was that farmers who stayed in business simply bought these spare cattle so production levels were not really affected (the cattle couldn’t be sold for slaughter as that would have flooded the beef market, causing more problems).
  Much to the disgust of the rest of the country local federal legislators and others, both Republican and Democrat, then created a programme called the North-east Dairy Compact which all six New England states and the states of New York and Pennsylvania take part in. All milk sold by in these states that exceeds the volume produced by these states has a surcharge placed on it. This surcharge is collected from processor/importer dairy’s that distribute here. This money is then distributed to individual farmers by the states. This has resulted in higher retail milk prices, there was some grumbling initially about that, but is now accepted. What I see now,looking at local dairy farmers, is one who has just bought two new tractors, another who is replacing a big, dilapidated barn and the even the widespread use of winter rye as a cover crop on the corn fields which I never used too see. My point? Things can be changed, especially considering this has taken place in a culture dedicated to the cult of the individual.
Quote from: sandersj89 on February 20, 2005, 00:07:52
EEC rules - mutter, mutter......
Supermarkets - MUTTER, MUTTER......
British Consumers not know or caring what they are buying on the whole - MUTTER MUTTER MUTTER
:( :( :( :( :(
Jerry
Jerry, not all of us! I buy as much as possible from my local farm shop where a large portion of the produce is from local suppliers (many of which are Sussex based). My milk comes from a sussex dairy. If the produce is not labled I ask where it comes from and usually they know, if they don't they find out from the manager and let me know next time I'm there shopping. It's more expensive for most things I buy but then it's worth paying a little extra knowing that I'm not handing that money over to one of the big retailers and foreign suppliers. I can also afford to pay a little extra because I save by producing and selling (a few) of my own eggs, veg and fruit in summer and we eat less meat but better quality and local meat. What they can't source locally (bananas, avocados etc.) they buy in but at least to money is going to a local farm shop than a big retailer - as you can gather I don't like the big retailers!
I also think this organic thing is a problem. Lots of my friends will only buy organic veg and fruit even although it's been transported half way around the world to get here producing enormous amounts of pollution in the process. Maybe someone can answer this question, does organic also automatically mean free range? I'd rather buy meat that was free range and not organic than "factory" reared but eating organic food.
It is a specified precept of certified organic that it is free range.
That's good to know, there's so much ambiguity around food labelling it's difficult to tell what's good and what's not.
Tim :)
Dont you believe it [ Unmonitored Milk] You must be joking.
Do you know how stringent the Rules and Controls are here alone in the Netherlands. 8)
EEC Regulations :
For Cattle: Cows..Pigs..Sheeps.. Deer.. Ostrich..Horses.. Poultry  ???
Then: Food Produce: Eggs Butter Cheese Cream Milk ???
All those Veggies and Apples Tomatoes Bulbs and Cut Flowers........plus a thousand and one things. ???
Everyone has the FREEDOM of Choice were to Shop and What to buy in whatever Country we live in. ;)
NOTHING personal, Tulip - but we all know that the EU welfare standards are so low that our caring growers are steadily being priced out of business after 100s of years, because 'we want the cheapest food that can be produced whatever the pain'??
And who says this? We all know. The big 4. So sad. And for what? Not our survival - just SHAREHOLDERS' MONEY?
I often get my milk from a local diary, its sold in the little post office where my MIL lives and if I really can't get it from there I buy organic. Its always hard choosing local or organic. I get most of our eggs from local producers. We have our veg delivered from riverford, although there is a nearer farm with a box scheme it doesn't run all year round, and I think riverford is fantastic value for money (on the comedy value of the newsletter alone some weeks!!) We don't eat meat often, and when we do it's from the farmers market. We are also lucky to have a great trout farm fairly close by with the yummiest watercress too!
It is very sad what has been done to our attitudes to food, and how ignorant some people are, especially when it comes to supermarkets. They think they are doing the best for them and their families by simply buying organic from the shelves of ASDA. Its unfortunate that because of the takeover of the 4 giants it is actually quite difficult to survive without them. It was my new-years resolution to give up ASDA, but with two toddlers I've found it really difficult and given up :/ I must do something about it.
Of course it doesn't help when food labling is so ambiguous and standards vary accross the world.
Quote
Another contentious areas is that in the UK all organic animals must be born on the farm, whilst elsewhere animals can be from conventional origin and merely spend the final part of their lives on an organic farm. In the UK free range the requirements on free range poultry are interpreted more strictly than in most other EU countries.
from http://www.organic-consultancy.com/articles/OGLIFE/1001.shtml
You can do a bit locally by pressuring your local supermarket. I kept going into my local Somerfield and was totally p*****d off that the only tomatoes, bacon, you name it I could buy were Dutch! I resent this as most of the Dutch produce is tasteless be it bacon or tomatoes (no offence I'm sure). I want to buy British bacon and tomatoes so I got in touch with head office at Somerfield and told them. I kept banging on about it and now on the bacon counter there are British flags all over it. I need to buy and serve British bacon at my B & B and try and source very locally produced stuff but the supermarkets need to gear up to this fact and take the blinkers off about the centralised way of doing things. Rant over. I am quite myself again ;D
Wardy
Great going!! I'll remuster my energy.
But bear in mind my first point about the use of the flag?? Designed to deceive.
It's not so much the flavour of imported food - it's animal welfare that I'm hot about - &, through the avoidance of that, in the name of always cheaper meat, 'because the public demand it', the loss of our own, small ethical producers.
Tim ;)
I think there's a lot to do with the EEC subs.
In respect of all Growers Respective of what Land or Country. Fruit..Veg...or Food Stuffs
I will agree its certainly not a Level Playing field Tim!!!! ::)
I'm hot on animal welfare as well Tim and I took this up with Somerfield as I was concerned that they only had Dutch bacon on sale on their chilled meat counter and that it was probably produced from crated pigs. Anyway they assured me it wasn't and all their meat had to be reared humanely. I'm not convinced though so I kept pushing and got them to get British in. I'm still not sure though that they aren't just sticking British flags on any bacon. That would be illegal though wouldn't it?
Wardy don't quote me on this, but its to do with how much time the animal has been in the country and where it's packaged. I'm sure I read if it's packaged here you can call it british!!
If in any doubt buy from a local farmer.
www.themeatrix.com (http://www.themeatrix.com)
Wardy ;D
Nothing wrong with Dutch Bacon I can tell you!! ;)
Except from the animals' point of view??
And Wardy - no, it is NOT illegal - that's my point.
Not really Tim!!!!!!!!! ;)
Hi
One of the main reasons we are having problems (and not just with food) is the buying power of the large conglomerate companies.
They tend to dictate what price they are prepared to pay to the supplier who then has a choice....do I supply at that price (this often means cutting production/manufacturing costs) or loose the business to someone who will meet the price thereby putting your own workforce at risk of unemployment.
The result is a reduction in quality
Derek
Bought some free range bacon from my local deli. £7.69 for 8 slices! Delicious, huge slices but very expensive as I was buying from the middle man. There is a pig farm near here and I think I'll give him a call as I use lots of bacon at my gaff. The farm has a beautiful garden and the pigs are kept in the fields surrounding it. One field, nearest the garden, is their wallow, then they have a grassy field with lots of shelters in it and then they have a massive field on a slope with trees and all sorts of woodland where they rootle and tootle. They are lovely spotted sorts and look very happy. They are very curious and come and say hello and it's unbearable to know that not all pigs are cared for in this way. I understand that intensive pig rearing crates are illegal in the UK
Wardy :)
Having worked with them [Pigs] I mean.
Installation of Feeding Systems. I lasted Six Months at the Job .
Could.nt stand the Smell...the Heat... the Constant Pellet Feeding.
NEVER going out side from the Day they are Born, smelling the Fresh Air or eating the Grass...................thats
INTENTSIVE FARMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???
Pass my hanky, please!!
PS There are alternatives to the 'wallow' - hopefully sympathetic. Richard Woodall supplies The Queen.
" We also feel that freedom of movement is important for the animals and accordingly they are not confined in stalls or crates but are housed in straw filled barns with natural light and fresh air. The breeding sows have permanent access to a large outdoor exercise area. Much of the pork imported into this country is from animals which have been kept in cramped stalls and crates. These conditions are being phased out in the UK but new units are still being built abroad to these inhumane, but cost effective, specifications."
Wardy, those pigs sound so happy! We used to pigsit for friends who kept just two, they were lovely animals and so inquisitive, they are so different from what I had imagined. They loved having their backs tickled. I would love to keep some if I had the space.
Tim
One thing or the other!!!![ These conditions are being phased out in the UK.............but new units are being built
abroad..........and in the UK. Dont kid yourself its not
happening over there also TIm
Let's just keep making noises about it - maybe it'll go away??
I wish!
Best thing to do is vote with your mouth, and only eat meat reared in an acceptable way, try to avoid the supermarkets, as using them even if not for meat is still encouraging them to flourish, AND keep making the noises!
Just been to buy a few things at my farm shop and I see there is a notice by the milk now saying that the two local dairies that supplied the milk to them have now been bought out by a national dairy so they are having to provide milk from the national dairy until another local supplier can be sourced (better national I guess than foreign). Chatting to the staff in the shop it seems they are having difficulty finding a local dairy. I felt very sad that the small dairies have sold out to larger ones but I guess if they're not making a living this will happen. It's down to the consumers if we want all our farmers to go this way, only if we all support them can they keep going. Was talking to my in-laws this weekend about buying local, they are huge supporters of buying whatever is cheapest with no interest how or where it was produced, they take the approach of if they don't ask then they don't know and don't have to think of the cruelty involved to produce the goods. After much discussion they have promised me that although they can't afford (which again is a poor excuse because they're not exactly on the breadline) to buy their whole shop from local suppliers they are going to buy their meat and veg from our local farmers market from now on so that they are contributing a little towards supporting local farms. They used to buy the cheapest eggs they could lay their hands on but I have put a stop to that as well because they are now buying eggs from me and my happy freeish-range hens. I am quite pleased with them, at least they're making a start to thinking about how and where their food comes from.
Thanks nattyem for sharing that meatrix site, gave me plenty to think about. I've been going on for a couple of months about using a local butcher and not the supermarket for meat, but at the end of the day I didn't cos the supermarket is so much easier. Just have to get my act together and make the effort to buy local! Must do the same with milk!
Didn't see the meatrix link in the earlier post, very interesting and now horrified that that's probably the type of farm I bought my milk from today :o but then there was no other choice at the moment, am going to keep asking everytime I go into the farm shop if they have found a local family farm to supply milk yet, if I keep nagging them they may find an alternative more quickly.
'Afford' - yes, a constant cry. Which I do understand. But, in many cases, like a big free range chicken, it'll give you far more meat, flavour & real stock for your money than your poor 6 week thingy.
DON'T Google battery hens or supermarket chicken!
No Tim ::)
Only E. Bay ;)
I buy a whole Derbyshire free range chicken via my local deli and it's lovely. A large chuck is abut £6.00. I find that some supermarket battery chicken is really stringy (Somerfield). I wanted some chicken for tea but cannot get in car cos of back so am making do with what's in, eg a home-made bean soup which involves no cruelty to any living except to me as I have a right pain in my nether regions ;D