A very cold Winter is forcast. If we do get one will full plastic water butts be OK? I would be most upset if mine split.
One of ours split last year but it was 10 years old ;D.
Why keep it full over the winter?
mine have been OK over the last 7 years its a 50 50 Chance
They'll be OK as the ice can expand upwards. If you fill them to the brim a lid could be forced off but that's the worst that can happen.
Two of my watering cans split last year. I foolishly left them out and they filled with rain and snow and that expanded and they burst despite having no lid. I would empty the water butts by at least half.
Thanks for replies and advice. I like to keep some water handy to wash veg and clean tools.
I have put my water butts beside my PSB I am hoping that this will help to get a few plants through the winter this year.
The problem is that water freezes from the top (ice being less dense than water) and can effectively make it's own seal - so that when the rest of it freezes it expands outward instead of upward.
Water expands in all directions, but it is a liquid so it will flow, so no extra pressure is caused as the water flows up to fill the gap above it.
Problems only occur once the water is frozen, and then as the temperature drops further below zero the solid ice continues to expand in all directions adding extra pressure to the sides of the container.
no doubt the winter will be cold with frost and snow- but i think it will be a wet winter
The waterbutt near my little lottie greenhouse usually isn't very full, but despite that over last winter it expanded when it froze, lurched slowly sideways and broke 3 panes of glass in the greenhouse....... ::) :-\ :'(
Ice will flow under pressure, and there's not much friction inside a barrel. The one outside my shed has survived at least a dozen years - it was there when I arrived - without splitting, and there are plenty more like it on the site. My piss barrel has likewise survived several cold winters. In the old days of milk deliveries the bottles occasionally froze. The milk would be sticking out of the top, frozen solid, but the bottles never broke.
I remember milk at school with the silver foil cap pushed off by the ice.
Piss barrel. Every time I go on the allotment, it goes in the barrel. It's my supply of liquid manure.
Errrrm....... Your what? (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing002.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Piss barrel.. ;D..straight talk..nothing like it.. ;D I don't save mine but I use it as and when the supply arrives..well diluted first though.. ;) ;D
Uh..it could be quite a mess if the barrel like that should split.. :-X
I think people who save their household liquid fertilizer should get a refund on the water rates, as also use less water as not flushing the loo all the time :D
How about putting something in the butt to float - to keep the ice from completely freezing over - like a rubber ball, or milk bottle filled?
It would work in an ordinary winter - when it's not really needed - but I'm not sure about the last two. The barrels survived anyway.
Quote from: goodlife on October 27, 2011, 13:13:41
I don't save mine but I use it as and when the supply arrives..well diluted first though.. [/quote]
What do you do with it in winter? I'd have thought you were wasting half the supply.
Quote from: BarriedaleNick on October 24, 2011, 08:09:35
The problem is that water freezes from the top (ice being less dense than water) and can effectively make it's own seal - so that when the rest of it freezes it expands outward instead of upward.
If you pop an old ball into the top of the barrel (if no lid) that should stop it forming a seal and causing the liquid to expand out?
Is it going to be a severe winter? All reports ive heard are that the weather people still dont know for sure?! (wouldn't surprise me tho if it is - got to minus 20 where i live last December - not normal)!
The ball idea sounds interesting, but surely the ice would just seal around it and force it a) downwards (unlikely) or b) upwards and out of the container thus forming the seal anyway??
Quote from: goodlife on October 27, 2011, 13:13:41
Errrrm....... Your what? (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing002.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Piss barrel.. ;D..straight talk..nothing like it.. ;D I don't save mine but I use it as and when the supply arrives..well diluted first though.. ;) ;D
Uh..it could be quite a mess if the barrel like that should split.. :-X
Never eat the yellow ice ;) ;) ;) :o
We don't know. They've been promising us one for ages, but that only means that the chance of a cold winter is more than evens. I don't know what it actually is. Cold weather was supposed to arrive at the beginning of last month, and as we all know, there's no sign of it yet!
The problem with mine which are old orange juice barrels is that the ice pushes the bottoms into round shapes then the butt falls over and is to heavy to lift back into place.
They are now wedged against the wall. Keep them with water in becuase the greeehouse needs watering though the winter as do the winter bulbs that come into the house.
Been a lovely mild november here bonus and lovely gardening weather yesterday.
xSunloving