Im getting absurd delays trying to post - it just took nearly five minutes to post up one post. I dont get long pauses like this on any other forum, or online newspaper, or my own uk hosted blog and forum.
This is due to the hosting for this site being 8000 miles away, down the end of a long thin overloaded pipe!!!!
Would it not be sensible to move the hosting to somewhere in the UK?
Look at my TRACRT to this site, its absolutely absurd, no wonder i have massive long delays in sending posts up to the server:
Tracing route to allotments4all.co.uk [67.222.3.7]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 8 ms 7 ms 11 ms
2 9 ms 18 ms 10 ms
3 8 ms 9 ms 10 ms
4 144 ms 10 ms 14 ms leed-bb-1a-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.174.169]
5 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms brnt-bb-1b-as2-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.175.26]
6 25 ms 41 ms 35 ms brnt-tmr-1-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.159.50]
7 17 ms 26 ms 33 ms telc-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.185.74]
8 19 ms 17 ms 17 ms te1-3.ccr01.lon04.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.15.69]
9 35 ms 52 ms 30 ms te2-8.mpd01.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.3.189]
10 122 ms 217 ms 215 ms te3-1.mpd02.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.2.26]
11 96 ms 117 ms 94 ms 154.54.58.213
12 104 ms 104 ms 109 ms te0-3-0-4.ccr22.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.5.122]
13 111 ms 94 ms 93 ms te0-5-0-3.ccr21.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.25.113]
14 124 ms 105 ms 119 ms te0-3-0-3.ccr21.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.26.185]
15 111 ms 114 ms 120 ms te0-3-0-1.ccr21.iad02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.41.226]
16 109 ms 126 ms 113 ms 38.104.206.38
17 141 ms 151 ms 130 ms cdm-66-76-30-165.tylrtx.suddenlink.net [66.76.30.165]
18 146 ms 158 ms 155 ms 173-219-254-171-link.tex.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219.254.171]
19 152 ms 149 ms 153 ms 173-219-246-93-link.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219.246.93]
20 134 ms 148 ms 135 ms 206.123.64.38
21 131 ms 134 ms 130 ms 72.249.128.166
22 132 ms 146 ms 129 ms vz20-tx.privatesystems.net [67.222.0.120]
23 144 ms 128 ms 130 ms 67.222.3.7
Trace complete.
TWENTY THREE HOPS!!! Im sure there adequate hosting in the UK at less cost. It is surely common sense to have hosting for a forum in the country where most of the posters will be posting from, isnt it ?
(http://www.freedebate.co.uk/tracert.jpg)
I've flagged this thread up to Dan.
Quote from: lincsyokel2 on August 18, 2011, 13:58:14
Im getting absurd delays trying to post - it just took nearly five minutes to post up one post. I dont get long pauses like this on any other forum, or online newspaper, or my own uk hosted blog and forum.
This is due to the hosting for this site being 8000 miles away, down the end of a long thin overloaded pipe!!!!
Would it not be sensible to move the hosting to somewhere in the UK?
Look at my TRACRT to this site, its absolutely absurd, no wonder i have massive long delays in sending posts up to the server:
Tracing route to allotments4all.co.uk [67.222.3.7]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 8 ms 7 ms 11 ms
2 9 ms 18 ms 10 ms
3 8 ms 9 ms 10 ms
4 144 ms 10 ms 14 ms leed-bb-1a-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.174.169]
5 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms brnt-bb-1b-as2-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.175.26]
6 25 ms 41 ms 35 ms brnt-tmr-1-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.159.50]
7 17 ms 26 ms 33 ms telc-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.185.74]
8 19 ms 17 ms 17 ms te1-3.ccr01.lon04.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.15.69]
9 35 ms 52 ms 30 ms te2-8.mpd01.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.3.189]
10 122 ms 217 ms 215 ms te3-1.mpd02.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.2.26]
11 96 ms 117 ms 94 ms 154.54.58.213
12 104 ms 104 ms 109 ms te0-3-0-4.ccr22.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.5.122]
13 111 ms 94 ms 93 ms te0-5-0-3.ccr21.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.25.113]
14 124 ms 105 ms 119 ms te0-3-0-3.ccr21.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.26.185]
15 111 ms 114 ms 120 ms te0-3-0-1.ccr21.iad02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.41.226]
16 109 ms 126 ms 113 ms 38.104.206.38
17 141 ms 151 ms 130 ms cdm-66-76-30-165.tylrtx.suddenlink.net [66.76.30.165]
18 146 ms 158 ms 155 ms 173-219-254-171-link.tex.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219.254.171]
19 152 ms 149 ms 153 ms 173-219-246-93-link.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219.246.93]
20 134 ms 148 ms 135 ms 206.123.64.38
21 131 ms 134 ms 130 ms 72.249.128.166
22 132 ms 146 ms 129 ms vz20-tx.privatesystems.net [67.222.0.120]
23 144 ms 128 ms 130 ms 67.222.3.7
Trace complete.
TWENTY THREE HOPS!!! Im sure there adequate hosting in the UK at less cost. It is surely common sense to have hosting for a forum in the country where most of the posters will be posting from, isnt it ?
(http://www.freedebate.co.uk/tracert.jpg)
Well now it is all so clear to me I do not mind the wait ;) ;) ;)
Just picked this up ...
The site is hosted in the states - mainly for cost reasons!
We are on a VPS - have worked our way up from shared hosting and unfortunately europe based VPS are (or were last time we moved) much more expensive :(
If you can suggest a reasonably priced well supported host I will happily look into it.
Cheers
Dan
Quote from: Admin aka Dan on August 24, 2011, 19:55:57
Just picked this up ...
The site is hosted in the states - mainly for cost reasons!
We are on a VPS - have worked our way up from shared hosting and unfortunately europe based VPS are (or were last time we moved) much more expensive :(
If you can suggest a reasonably priced well supported host I will happily look into it.
Cheers
Dan
i have a domain hosted on on 34sp.com, it cost me £3.99 for the domain and £2.99 a month for the hosting, supports php 3 and 5 gb space, you can buy more and pay per month
You have to admit, 23 hops to the site is pretty naff, and makes people think their PC's is a pile of doggy doo when you get 90 to 180 second pauses between posting and anything happening.
*edit: 40 second to post this
I do understand the frustration - however the delay does not affect everyone - I get sub second responses (and I am not on super fast internet) - but I do know it affects some.
The site is too big to use a shared host like the plan you use on 34sp.com - mainly due to CPU usage, but also the size of the database etc - I will have a look at european hosting again when I get some time ....
Thanks .... and sorry!
Dan
I don't even pretend to understand hops etc, but I am more than happy with the service we have. Sometimes there is a bit of a problem, but Dan fixes it. End Of as da yoof say...
seems OK from Norfolk, perhaps the problem is just Lincolnshire -Based ?
Quote from: tonybloke on August 24, 2011, 22:01:24
seems OK from Norfolk, perhaps the problem is just Lincolnshire -Based ?
i thought all the hops were in Kent?
Quote from: tonybloke on August 24, 2011, 22:01:24
seems OK from Norfolk, perhaps the problem is just Lincolnshire -Based ?
post a tracert, lets have a look at you're routing. dont forget to delete the first three IP's.
I think with no membership fees we get a pretty good service from Dan, I wouldn't want his job and although it is very frustrating sometimes it is part of what we have got used to..it comes and goes .My personal feeling is that this site doesn't cost me anything and I accept it's occasional hiccups, warts and all. Dan, you do what you feel you need to do, no complaints from me..
XX Jeannine
No problems here for me.
This is one from my PC
I don't pretend to know what it means ???
Tracing route to allotments4all.co.uk [67.222.3.7]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 27 ms 99 ms 99 ms
2 25 ms 24 ms 25 ms
3 23 ms 24 ms 22 ms
4 28 ms 27 ms 27 ms 213.1.69.30
5 27 ms 28 ms 28 ms 213.120.182.58
6 27 ms * 28 ms 217.41.222.58
7 27 ms 28 ms 28 ms 217.41.222.182
8 27 ms 27 ms 27 ms acc2-10GigE-0-7-0-6.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.
248.214]
9 32 ms 30 ms 31 ms core2-te0-4-0-4.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.24
8.134]
10 32 ms 32 ms 31 ms core1-xe10-1-0.redbus.ukcore.bt.net [62.6.200.89
]
11 32 ms 32 ms 33 ms ge-2-1-0.mpr1.lhr2.uk.above.net [195.66.224.76]
12 35 ms 32 ms 32 ms ge-3-0-0.mpr1.lhr2.uk.above.net [64.125.28.126]
13 106 ms 106 ms 107 ms so-1-1-0.mpr1.dca2.us.above.net [64.125.31.186]
14 105 ms 104 ms 105 ms xe-0-3-0.cr1.dca2.us.above.net [64.125.29.17]
15 133 ms 132 ms 132 ms xe-1-3-0.cr1.iah1.us.above.net [64.125.31.213]
16 138 ms 137 ms 137 ms xe-1-2-0.cr1.dfw2.us.above.net [64.125.26.129]
17 139 ms 170 ms 138 ms xe-1-0-0.cr2.dfw2.us.above.net [64.125.30.78]
18 137 ms 136 ms 198 ms xe-0-1-0.er2.dfw2.us.above.net [64.125.27.82]
19 137 ms 136 ms 136 ms 64.124.196.226.t00876-01.above.net [64.124.196.2
26]
20 138 ms 137 ms 137 ms 206.123.64.18
21 139 ms 145 ms 142 ms 72.249.128.166
22 137 ms 137 ms 136 ms vz117-tx.privatesystems.net [72.249.97.117]
23 138 ms 137 ms 136 ms 67.222.3.7
Trace complete.
Mine:
67.222.3.7 is from United States(US) in region North America
TraceRoute to 67.222.3.7 [allotments4all.co.uk]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name
1 0 0 0 206.123.64.30 ge-1-2.core2.colo4dallas.net
2 2 1 0 72.249.128.166 -
3 0 0 0 72.249.97.117 vz117-tx.privatesystems.net
4 0 0 0 67.222.3.7 -
Trace complete
But sometimes it does take more than a minute to post. I wonder if the route is always the same or it is one particular hop that produces the delay (I know zilch about computers).
Ping times are fine - averaging 150 ms over 50 pings.
Tracert will tell you the path your packets take but they don't tell all the story.
There are delays on the site from time to time but I don't experience anything like a 40 sec wait to post.
We use a UK based VPS for our work site and it aint cheap!
The route is not fixed Denby - depending on what the routers protocols "think" is the quickest way to get to the destination it can change from day to day or hour to hour..
ok I get the picture on the hops, but so it takes longer to post sometimes. this isnt the only site that happens on. All in alll im happy with it.
Mind I do live in hopland :)
Quote from: brownowl23 on August 25, 2011, 09:01:02
ok I get the picture on the hops, but so it takes longer to post sometimes. this isnt the only site that happens on. All in alll im happy with it.
Mind I do live in hopland :)
This is the only site i get a delay on, and im sitting on the end of a very fat pipe.
I'm on BT standard broadband nominal speed 1.6 Mbps and this board is often unusable in the evenings as every click takes at least a minute. I just try again later but it's the only place this happens for me.
Quote from: katynewbie on August 24, 2011, 21:55:55
I don't even pretend to understand hops etc, but I am more than happy with the service we have. Sometimes there is a bit of a problem, but Dan fixes it. End Of as da yoof say...
me too :)
I greatly value A4A. In my view it's the best allotments forum bar none, which is entirely the result of the gentle tone set by Dan and the moderators which attracts such a host of informed and enthusiastic allotmenteers sharing what we have in the very best tradition of the allotment movement.
I'd not appreciated how much it cost to host A4A before, so if a £10 subscription to host pictures helps maintain it, that's a bargain in my book, and I'm very pleased to help - visit your profile and the option is on the left.
Quoteand im sitting on the end of a very fat pipe.
what are you smoking? LOL
Dan the Man, does a fantastic job here we are very lucky to have such a brilliant site. As jeannine says it cost nothing unless of course we use the picture posting & £10 is peanuts for a site where we are all allowed to almost moderate ourself, we have a really good cross section of peeps on here who really help each other out.
We do not need the boat rocking.
THREE CHEERS FOR DAN.
It's not really a case of boat rocking. There have been instances recently where the forum perfomance has been very slow or has stopped completely. This seems to affect different people to varying degrees of severity. If it happens too often to too many people then people stop trying and drift away and the forum stops being the lively vibrant place it is. So, if people are having this kind of problem, I'm sure Dan wants to know about it and, if appropriate, explore other solutions.
And don't forget there are other ways to help out with the costs. As well as buying a photo posting subscription, you can use the Amazon click-through at the top right of the screen. It doesn't cost you anything extra if you're making an Amazon purchase anyway. And if you want to post a classified ad on eBuygumbay, you can make a small donation out of the proceeds. You'd pay to do it on eBay so why not support your favourite Allotments forum!
Quote from: tonybloke on August 25, 2011, 12:10:30
Quoteand im sitting on the end of a very fat pipe.
what are you smoking? LOL
Nothing, its technical slang meaning i have a seriously fast internet connection and therefore the lag isnt at my end.
Quote from: lincsyokel2 on August 25, 2011, 15:50:37
Nothing, its technical slang meaning i have a seriously fast internet connection and therefore the lag isnt at my end.
Although you were complaining about latency, not bandwidth.
i've also been sitting on the end of a very fat pipe, but that's what happens when you buy a King Prawn Curry at a Car Boot Sale
Quote from: rosebud on August 25, 2011, 14:43:21
Dan the Man, does a fantastic job here we are very lucky to have such a brilliant site. As jeannine says it cost nothing unless of course we use the picture posting & £10 is peanuts for a site where we are all allowed to almost moderate ourself, we have a really good cross section of peeps on here who really help each other out.
We do not need the boat rocking.
THREE CHEERS FOR DAN.
I echo that...
I feel happier here, much more relaxed and less likely to put my size 12 foot in it. (If I do I'm sure someone will let me know!)
I'm pleased I made the move to this allotment forum despite having been with another for years.
Thanks Dan and the A4A community for letting me join you. :)
PS Speed isn't bad here most of the time - this forum compensates for it.
Quote from: Aden Roller on August 25, 2011, 16:57:47
I echo that...
I feel happier here, much more relaxed and less likely to put my size 12 foot in it. (If I do I'm sure someone will let me know!)
I'm pleased I made the move to this allotment forum despite having been with another for years.
We have a cupboard at A4A full of size 12 boots, I raid it on a regular basis ... :-[ :-X ;D
Quote from: Bugloss2009 on August 25, 2011, 16:07:42
i've also been sitting on the end of a very fat pipe, but that's what happens when you buy a King Prawn Curry at a Car Boot Sale
You do make me larf.
I don't even pretend to know what any of that previous garb means, I'd probably have more luck understanding Chinese but I do know that the site was quite wobbly on and off last month, but for me it's been back to normal for roughly 2-3 weeks now? :)
Question..
The amazon link..
I buy quite a lot of stuff on Amazon regularly from the US, Canada,and the UK, does the link benefit Dan from all three countries and can someone tell me how to do it. Also say I spend 100 sterling on Amazon what is that worth to the forum.
Are there any other links that also help
I buy lots by mail order so maybe could help that way but I don't understand the way it works.
I do pay the photo fee.
XX Jeannine
I suggest you all move to the Cotswolds where we have no more problem with A4A than any other.
Tim, now that sounds real good. B&B next year!!XX Jeannine
Yes please Tim ;).
I think Dan has done a seriously good job on a very tight budget. Yes we would all like to motor along in a porshe but we can still have fun bumping along in the old unpretentious model that Dan works so hard to keep going for us. Tim you're not worried we might lower the tone ? ;)
Ready & waiting!!
I'll pack my bags then ;) ;D.
Quote from: tonybloke on August 25, 2011, 12:10:30
Quoteand im sitting on the end of a very fat pipe.
what are you smoking? LOL
My missus thinks I'm off my trolley for laughing out loud at this. 8) ;D
Quote from: Nigel B on August 25, 2011, 20:51:53
Quote from: tonybloke on August 25, 2011, 12:10:30
Quoteand im sitting on the end of a very fat pipe.
what are you smoking? LOL
My missus thinks I'm off my trolley for laughing out loud at this. 8) ;D
Yes it was a good one!
Tim -where is the greenhouse?
Bugloss....I was sipping a refreshment when I read your post...thankyou for showering my screen.
I too would like to know how to use Amazon to benefit this site.
I love this forum and I would hate so see it go but I don't feel good when told it is costing the owner too much money to run.
I have paid the odd few tenners in the past for piccies but I rarely post pictures these days so have mine hosted.
The most obvious answer is a subscription paid by all who wish to participate on the forum.However I have reservations as I belong to a local history forum packed with info much like here.As soon as subscriptions were taken all hell let loose re how the money was spent.A rival forum was set up and there was much bad feeling.I rarely go on it now as it is too depressing.
I think Dan needs help so anybody got any ideas ??
I wonder how much it costs to update a sytem realistically, maybe we could have a fundraising drive and those that can kick in a bit to help..I would XX Jeannine
All,
The forum ticks over - in the past I have subsidised the cost as I gain so much and value the contributions, at the moment the income and costs are fairly evenly matched.
The combination of subscriptions and revenue from clicks on the adverts provide enough income to pay for hosting.
In short - don't panic!
Thanks
Dan
Quote from: Hector on August 25, 2011, 22:56:35
Bugloss....I was sipping a refreshment when I read your post...thankyou for showering my screen.
I too would like to know how to use Amazon to benefit this site.
Just click on the AllotmentsAmazon Shop link top right.
Dan while you around, can you plaese expaain my question about how Amazon works,, about half a dozen posts back. XX Jeannine
Hi Jeannine,
Just click on the Shop button at the top of the page, this takes you to amazon and any purchases you make I get a small percentage of.
It really is that simple!
Thanks
Dan
Well pleased to get that message from Dan ;D
I shall always help.
Dan, does it work with the US and Canada Amazons or just the UK ones and if I start at the online shop here and then go to the different departments does it work with whatever I buy. I looked in the shop an only thought it was on what I saw there which was just a few gardening books.
Is there something visible that lets me know you have got a contribution.
XX Jeannine
Dan's away for a few days.
I have no idea about the North Amarican variants, my suspicion is that they won't work.
On the UK Amazon site, you aren't restricted to the books you can see on the page or even to the departments listed on the right. You can use the search boxes or the Powered by Amazon.co.uk button to take you to the main Amazon site. As long as you have clicked through from here, the purchase will track. You can't see how much commission is earned for a particular purchase. It's a small percentage of the sale price usually excluding VAT and delivery and usually varying by department. The amounts are paid out to gthe referrer (Dan) months after the event.
As you only know part of my answer I will wait for Dan as I am on the point of buying a large purchase from Amazon Canada and want to be sure it works from this side and I do it right.
I don't need to know what he gets.
Thank you
XX Jeannine
Having been a member of this board since 2003, I find it one of the best I have ever taken part in. The service is great and apart from the very odd hiccup I have had no problems with it. Dan and his helpers do a brilliant job. busy_lizzie
Quote from: Unwashed on August 25, 2011, 16:01:37
Quote from: lincsyokel2 on August 25, 2011, 15:50:37
Nothing, its technical slang meaning i have a seriously fast internet connection and therefore the lag isnt at my end.
Although you were complaining about latency, not bandwidth.
Very good, a valid point.
On the other hand, bandwidth and latency are connected. If the bandwidth is saturated then congestion occurs and latency is increased. However, if the bandwidth of a circuit is not at peak, the latency will not decrease. Bandwidth can always be increased but latency cannot be decreased except by shortening the circuit. Latency is the function of the electrical characteristics of the circuit, in this case 23 hops worth. Ergo if you host it closer the circuit has less hops and the latency decreases, my orginal point, but we may also be constrained by the atlantic pipes, of which there are fourteen and there all near capacity, thats why they are laying three more.
I love this bandwidth/latency argument, somone always brings it up. Your serve 8)
(BTW, for statistics freaks like me, the total transatlantic capacity is currently 560 Gb/sec)
Pumpkinlover - at the other side of the barn.
Apologies for cluttering the thread!
Without wishing to get into an argument ( ;D) I wonder if it might not be bandwidth or hops but the actual Virtual Server that Dan is using. Obviously I don't know the spec of the system but being virtual the server is bound to suffer, to some extent, the effects of the physical server getting pounded. If the physical server hosts many sites then its memory/HD performance will be affected adversely when those sites get hammered.
I recall when we here hit the front page of the news, our website hits went from 300/500 a day to 50,000 a day (BBC had a link to us on their home page) and we had to upgrade our VPS rapidly as the site awas unusable.
560 Gbs - now that is a stat! Here is another!
I checked Alexa. A4A acounts for 0.00003% of internet traffic and ranks 12,755 in the UK.
"Allotments4all.co.uk's three-month global Alexa traffic rank is 208,807. The typical visitor to this site is not markedly different from the overall internet population"