I've been using various makes of peat free compost for the last few years and have found the quality variable but on the whole not too bad. But this year I've hit on a problem that I've never come across before and it seems to be confined to plants I've grown from seed and potted on in the last couple of months. The product I'm using is Miracle Gro Organic Choice All Purpose Peat Free which I bought this year. The consistency is good, there is no unpleasant smell nor any obvious pests but every plant has failed to grow. It's bizarre: the plants just sit there, neither growing nor withering and have been like this for between four and six weeks. It's almost as though the product contains some sort of growth restraint! Everything else in the garden is growing pretty much as normal so I think it has to be down to the compost. Can anyone offer an explanation?
G x
The only thing I can suggest G is pot them up in something different and wait to see what happens.
You will know then if it is the product at fault and not the plant.
Have a good look at the roots and if you can see any sign of pest or disease.
Best bet is to get onto Scotts., who make Miracle Gro products. What you need is a sample putting though the lab, and testing for NPK, pH, and bulk density. That woudl give a lot more idea whats going on.
Thank you Den and Lincsyokel for your replies. Changing the compost of all the affect plants isn't really practical and whilst I'm quite happy to contact the manufacturer as suggested that isn't going to help the problem in the short term. :'(
Does anyone else have any thoughts?
G x
Well could you experiment with a few?
Let them dry out a bit and knock off as much of the compost as you can.
I am intrigued .
Quote from: betula on June 30, 2011, 21:22:43
Well could you experiment with a few?
Let them dry out a bit and knock off as much of the compost as you can.
I am intrigued .
So am I, but without a lab analysis, its p*ssing in the dark.
I have had a similar problem this year and found my problem was a wrong pH.
In my case it was my fault as I forgot to put lime into my home made compost along with JI base fertiliser.
Like your plants my plants remained in limbo until I changed the compost.
As you may know if the pH is not correct plants can' t take up the nutrients so I would agree with lincs and contact Scotts and have them test a sample of the compost you bought.
On a personal note; I often think what with all the changes that are being made to composts the manufacturers have not got a recipe that is as stable as peat based composts.
Could the substitute ingredients be conflicting with the fertilisers?
The mind boggles!
Hello all got back from holiday ,and my son looking after everything this was a few weeks back anyway opened a new bag of compost there was everything in it wire (A load of rubbish) phoned got told out of every load of organic mater they buy the only check one load oin six well the supplyers have cottoned on to this she offerd me a like for like exchange at my expence which she new would be turned down we on Allotments for all have bought a lot of grow bags in a season there must be a way to put preasure on these firms to have better quality control, at the moment its all profit at our expence >:(
Quote from: rugbypost on June 30, 2011, 22:33:01
Hello all got back from holiday ,and my son looking after everything this was a few weeks back anyway opened a new bag of compost there was everything in it wire (A load of rubbish) phoned got told out of every load of organic mater they buy the only check one load oin six well the supplyers have cottoned on to this she offerd me a like for like exchange at my expence which she new would be turned down we on Allotments for all have bought a lot of grow bags in a season there must be a way to put preasure on these firms to have better quality control, at the moment its all profit at our expence >:(
The problem is the green brigade is pressuring the government to stop compost manufacturers from using peat, which easily makes the best compost. As a result, after lots of experiments, the manufacturers are putting huge amounts of green waste into compost instead, also as a result from the government needed to get rid of it. (They pressured people into recycling, and then there's no demand for the recycled materials). They will never make a decent compost as long as they are putting 65% green waste into it. You might as well plant up in a pile a grass clippings
This is why multipurpose compost has become utter rubbish, coarse and full of big lumps and woolly bits. I've started mixing my own, as i have a source of raw peat.
It's not only green waste they are putting in.
I bought some recently that had pulverised timber in it.
In fact I was lucky not to get splinters in my hand when handling it.
I found one splinter about the size of two matchsticks and it was painted White.
So I guess they are using old window and door frames as a bulking agent.
Now if these were old building products they were probably painted with oil or lead based paint!
So much for banning what were useful chemicals to the amateur gardener and then replacing them with potentially toxic products that I have no control over.
Quote from: Tee Gee on June 30, 2011, 23:06:01
It's not only green waste they are putting in.
I bought some recently that had pulverised timber in it.
In fact I was lucky not to get splinters in my hand when handling it.
I found one splinter about the size of two matchsticks and it was painted White.
So I guess they are using old window and door frames as a bulking agent.
Now if these were old building products they were probably painted with oil or lead based paint!
So much for banning what were useful chemicals to the amateur gardener and then replacing them with potentially toxic products that I have no control over.
yes thats where the timber collected by the recycling centres goes. Its pulverized up, and mixed in with green waste to compost, or a lot is mixed in with bark to make cheap 'contract' quality bark mulch for landscaping
Have you not considered that the compost might have run out of nutrients so your plants are not getting fed.
There is only so much feed in compost and if you are lucky you may get six weeks of growth from it.
Try giving them a nitrogen feed or some Epsom Salts
Its still all groping round in the dark without knowing the total EC and the pH of the compost. If you have a lot of it, you need to get Scotts to do a lab test.
For what its worth, my money is on its too acidic.
Unpot two plants. shake the compost off them. Mix in some lime. Repot one with the old compost+lime, repot the other in someone elses new fresh compost. Watch what happens.
Wow, this has started a good debate. ;D Thanks for all the constructive advice.
I had 200 litres of the offending compost and have about 20 litres left. So I think I will contact Scotts and see what they say.
In the meantime I'll see if I can find an alternative organic peat free compost and try transplanting a few plants as suggested.
G x
Last year I bought some homebase's peat free..that wasn't bad at all..don't know what theirs compost is this year.
This year I had Wickes peat free...it was horrid..put some beans to grown in container..they just sulk and didn't grow until I replaced some of the stuff with their multipurpose peat base compost..that did the trick and plants started grow, but as well as same bean variety in peat base compost only.
So no vote for wickes peat free from me.
A number of people have told me they think the peat free composts need feed earlier than peat based- maybe they cannot hold the nutrients for as long.
I bought Vital Earth Peat free this year and it seemed better than others I have used.
IMHO the composts seem to vary more these days batch to batch I wonder if that is due to the amount of re-cycled waste going in and it varies :-\
I would like to be peat free but I am finding the quality of compost so iffy at the moment, and the cost has also gone up a lot.
Quote from: pumpkinlover on July 01, 2011, 21:06:16
IMHO the composts seem to vary more these days batch to batch I wonder if that is due to the amount of re-cycled waste going in and it varies :-\
yes, absolutely correct. That is exactly the case, there is no consistency in recycled materials.
Ah compost problems....does anyone remember the trouble I (and others) had with JA Bowers composts?Ii found the old thread and have just spent 10 minutes rereading it, unbelievable where it meandered to! Worth a look for a laugh... ;D
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,50449.0.html
I was one who complained Deb. You gave me the details so I was able to. Two years I gave them the benefit of the doubt. This year I got some B & Q Which best buy. What a load of RUBBISH. I bought Erin this year too. They asked far an empty bag & I sent them the rubbish I'd sieved out. They want to compensate me as they can understand my frustrations. Perhaps if more people complained they would do something about it.
I was given some bags of B&Q peat free compost this year - I took it back as it was awful. I found coal, plastic, chunks if wood with paint /varnish and and when you watered the plants horrible black dust came through....and then the compost hardened on the top. I made a collection of the junk I found and returned the lot to B&Q who immediately gave me a voucher for the full value of the three bags even though I hadn't bought them and did not have a receipt.
QuoteOn a personal note; I often think what with all the changes that are being made to composts the manufacturers have not got a recipe that is as stable as peat based composts.
Could the substitute ingredients be conflicting with the fertilisers?
QuoteFor what its worth, my money is on its too acidic.
QuoteIMHO the composts seem to vary more these days batch to batch I wonder if that is due to the amount of re-cycled waste going in and it varies
I still think the problem is any or all of the above.
I also think because the manufacturers/suppliers are putting all this rubbish in the mix that creates an imbalance or shortage of Nitrogen.
For instance the recipe they use may have the same amount of nitrogen that they would normally put into a peat based mix, but all this rubbish is taking this up in the 'rotting down' process, and the seedlings are subsequently starved of nitrogen when they need it most!
Then again they might be skimping on the whole 'fertiliser' content to cut costs and if this is the case then this makes the situation worse.
I keep coming back to the issue with the plants, they seem to stop growing after pricking out???? could this be fertiliser starvation or wrong pH or maybe both?
Something is certainly causing this phenonema and I don't think it is the gardener.
I have been growing my stuff more or less the same way as I have done for tens of years, and it is only recently that I have contracted these types of problems.
That is; since I have become involuntary involved with recycled ( so called organic) materials including farm yard manure and its aminopolopryd content my success rate has dropped substantially.
Sadly what I think might be happening is; the new gardeners know no better, and are buying these products and if they have a failure they might be putting this down to their inexperience when infact it is the inferior products they are using!
Then because the products are selling ( in this niche market) the manufactures/ suppliers will do nothing about it!
In the bigger scheme of things if they have the odd bag returned this means nothing because they will have allowed a waste/return factor in their production costs!
Now if there was a mass refusal to buy these products then something might be done about it!
Perhaps next season we can have a 'sticky' thread on the subject and send a link of the results back to the government, garden suppliers and organisations like NVS and the RHS to name a couple!
QuoteSo I think I will contact Scotts and see what they say.
I hope you do and it might be a good idea to submit a link of this thread to them as well and let them know what the growers think of their products.
I think I have said enough for now! I think I have shown what I think of the whole issue and will close before I write something that that I might live to forget. >:( >:( >:(
Over to you;........................
I must agree with everything that has been said we need to get feed back to all the manufactures they are now robbing as of the product we are paying for whats coming out of some bags is only fit for the scrap man >:(
We need a threead where we can leave comments on each types os compost at the start of the season. Understand that own brand compost such as B&Q, Morrisons , Tescos and Wilkos goes out to tender to the actual compost makers each year, hence someone different might be making it each time, using different raw materials, and a different recipe. And also take regard that supermarkets et al want it made as cheap as possible. SO to an extent, the maker are making what the sellers ask for, so if they ask for stuff with rubbish in, thats what they get.
The only products that are totally consistent are custom, mixed profession growing mediums made for large nurseries, where they are more concerned about end product quality, and therefore compost quality.
I can put up a sticky in The Basics for reviews of all the various composts that folks try but please keep comments factual i.e. what the compost was like and how your plants performed in it.
Any posts along the lines of XYZ Ltd compost is made from herbicide contaminated waste, bagged up by child sweatshop labour and transported on the backs of cruelly-treated donkeys will be removed unless you can provide court of law standard evidence.
Quote from: ceres on July 02, 2011, 18:22:32
I can put up a sticky in The Basics for reviews of all the various composts that folks try but please keep comments factual i.e. what the compost was like and how your plants performed in it.
Any posts along the lines of XYZ Ltd compost is made from herbicide contaminated waste, bagged up by child sweatshop labour and transported on the backs of cruelly-treated donkeys will be removed unless you can provide court of law standard evidence.
lol
how about some donkey poo and starving mutated 5 year old with chemical blisters on his hands?
I have bought compost from the same DIY store I have always bought it and it is dreadful, full of wood splinters too, I thought wood absorbed nitrogen so imagine if the compost starts out ok by the time it is stored etc it may be not as good as it was when it was made, horrid stuff to work with too. Please correct me if I am wrong :)
Quote from: grannyjanny on July 02, 2011, 10:46:41
I was one who complained Deb. You gave me the details so I was able to. Two years I gave them the benefit of the doubt. This year I got some B & Q Which best buy. What a load of RUBBISH. I bought Erin this year too. They asked far an empty bag & I sent them the rubbish I'd sieved out. They want to compensate me as they can understand my frustrations. Perhaps if more people complained they would do something about it.
Problem was it was a best buy last year.... this year their accountants forced them to try to up its profitability based on the higher sales so of course, quality dropped.... last years was the best cheap MPC I've ever seen, this years was dreadful.... I had serious problems with germination of usually easy things ...less than one-year old self-saved bean seeds for starters.....If this carries on I might start mixing my own... my topsoil is gritty, I can get unlimited recycled waste easily enough, the local (and I mean local, its quicker to cycle to than drive) garden centre does the assorted base mixes cheaply, some of the Vitax ones it sells loose IIRC......I can get the odd bale of peat I suppose.....
chrisc
Well-rotted leaf mould is a perfectly adequate substitute for peat. The stuff's not magic; the problem is the low quality of the alternatives.
Long shot but is there any possibility it could be vine weevil - it's the only thing I've ever come across that leaves plants in suspended animation?
Quote from: Alex133 on July 05, 2011, 18:40:09
Long shot but is there any possibility it could be vine weevil - it's the only thing I've ever come across that leaves plants in suspended animation?
No, I don't think so. I have had the odd vine weevil problem in containers in the past but my understanding is that they are far more prevalent if the compost is peat based.
G x
if it was a vine weevil problem you would find the little blighters in the bottom of the pot as you potted on
There's a nematode for Vine Weevil now
yea i always got some v weevil food ;)on stand by as i have had them at home in the past ive yet to recognise a adult
Quote from: brown thumb on July 06, 2011, 14:17:40
i have had them at home in the past ive yet to recognise a adult
My wife commented that goes for men as well.
:-[
lol :-X
My okra seems to have same problem with lack of growth as Georgie's, so after my vine weevil post dug one out of pot to have a look. Definitely no grubs there, unless microscopic, not many roots either. Have attempted a kill or cure - added some blood,fish & bone and watered in - they'll probablyn just keel over and die now!
not over watered r they the roots seems to drop then i could nt get my tom seedling to grow this year they turned blue and stopped growing at 2-3 inches high and wouldnt move so they all went in the bin no toms this year other then oneself seeded in the green house so now iam thinking that may be the compost was at fault as i did every thing as p revious years just set them off later then norm
I found this:
Causes of poor root development
Overwatering
Soil moisture that is not absorbed rapidly turns stagnant; the plant quickly uses up any oxygen within the water, then is unable to respire further, resulting in moisture low in o2. Pythium thrives in low-oxygen (anaerobic) conditions.
In short, overwatering will slowly suffocate your roots, preventing sufficient oxygen uptake by the roots, and ultimately causing root rot.
Soil with high bark content
This can cause a "bonsai" effect. The roots will not be able to grow through the bark, preferring to grow around the chunks of bark. This slows down root growth and most obviously plant growth. Ive encounter this recently; once transplanted into proper soil, they have shown remarkable recovery.
[Editor's note: bark is quite acidic, may may afect soil water pH]
Light deprivation
Although your plant may be receiving light, particular strains may require higher light levels than others. A recommended light level for full bud development is 50 watts/m2. Full sunlight is 100,000 lumens max.
Low nutrient strength
The plant is unable to acquire the necessary amounts of nutrients to sustain high growth rates. Large and mature plants can take higher nutrient strengths.
Nutrient strength is also related to the light intensity; plants under fluorescent lights usually require a lower nutrient concentration than under HIDs.
Nutrient lockup
Adding too much of a nutrient (ex. Magnesium) can "lockup" one or more nutrients, rendering them chemically unavailable to the plant. Nutrient lockup can occur at extreme pH ranges (ie. under 5.0, over 7.0).
by Ranger2000:
Light spectrum
Light that does not contain enough red spectrum (too much blue)
Light spectrum can have a dramatic effect on plant growth, with different ligh frequencies affecting different photosynthetic processes within the leaf. Selecting a blue spectrum in a vegetative growth phase is preferred, with red spectrum in flowering.
pH
pH is too high or too low (ie. acidic soil. The plants come out as mutants).
Plants are unable to absorb nutrients, or in adequate quantities within certain pH ranges. Optimum pH varies with each medium. Hydroponics and aeroponics: 5.6-5.8. Soilless: 6.0-6.3 Soil: 6.5-7.0.
Many soilless mixtures can be fairly acidic, due to their high % bark content.
Low temperatures
Plant metabolism will decrease at low temperatures. Chemical reactions within the plant will take longer. Optimum plant growth often requires close temperature regulation; daytime temperatures between 25C and 30C are preferred. Differences in daytime and nighttime temps should not be dramatic, as this difference may shock the plant.
by 10K:
Low soil / medium temp
Evaporation from a medium (i.e. peat pots) tends to chill the medium quite a bit due to the evaporative cooling effect. As the peat pot warms, it draws moisture outward, the evap effect cools the peat (like sweating). New growers often make the mistake of adding excessive amounts of water, resulting in cold soil, poor root formation and slowed growth
Thanks for that Lincs!
I think the key part as far as I was concerned is this bit;
QuotepH
pH is too high or too low (ie. acidic soil. The plants come out as mutants).
Plants are unable to absorb nutrients, or in adequate quantities within certain pH ranges.
QuoteMany soilless mixtures can be fairly acidic, due to their high % bark content.
or other constituent materials e.g. pulverised wood!I think we established this earlier on in the thread!
QuoteLow temperatures
Plant metabolism will decrease at low temperatures.
Differences in daytime and nighttime temps should not be dramatic, as this difference may shock the plant.
Agreed we were having very warm day temperatures in April/May and low night temperatures!
Annoying though it has been it is comforting to see scientific evidence of my thoughts!
At least I now now that the problem was outwith my control!
And the other consolation is; my stuff that survived is starting to grow as are my replacement sowings!
What I am hoping for now is; that we do not have an early winter, then hopefully I will be able to harvest my late sowings/plantings!
Thanks again links that was an interesting article...Tg
Thanks Lincs, that explains my problems too, that's a really good article, at least I know it is not something I have done. I went and bought some new compost this morning, much more expensive stuff in the hope it is better for some plants I really want to keep but haven't opened the bag yet! Thank you :)
Georgie,did any of those plants you repotted pick up ??
Oh and I thought my gardening abilities were diminishing. So this thread offers some form of reassurance. Last year I bought 2 for 1 60litres of Westland Garden Health compost. Terrible stuff. Only recently have I thought it may be the compost and have gone for some John Innes multi-purpose. Too late for many of my non starters.
I received a £20. 00 cheque for complaining about the Erin. I sent them the empty bag & the 'rubble' that I had sieved. They think there was a blockage in the system. Handled much more efficiently than JAB.
Quote from: betula on July 13, 2011, 21:46:18
Georgie,did any of those plants you repotted pick up ??
So far no. :( But I only repotted a few, fed a few others and left the rest as a control. Early days, will keep you posted.
G x
Hi all
Time to give you all an update. I wrote to Scotts with the following message:
'I am writing to let you know that I am very disappointed with the compost I have purchased from you this year. In May I bought four 50l bags of Miracle Gro Organic Choice all purpose peat free compost from A J Clockhouse in Enfield. I used it in containers for potting on a variety of plants I'd grown from seeds including herbs, salad crops and flowers. None of them flourished. All sat there in their containers neither growing nor keeling over. At first I put it down to the strange weather we had in early June but after 6-8 weeks I realised that for whatever reason the plants were simply not getting the nutrients they needed to thrive. Whether this was down to the soil being too acidic or lacking the nutrients in the first place I do not know. By way of an experiment I changed the compost in some containers, added additional feed to others and left some as they were. The ones that got new (different) compost and those that were fed are beginning to pick up but the others are still stunted or have died. I have some of the compost left if you would like me to send a sample for testing.
I look forward to receiving your response.'
And they responded as follows today:
'Thank you for your enquiry, I am sorry to hear that you have not achieved a good result following the use of the Miracle-Gro compost earlier in the year.
This product is made to high specification that includes good levels of nutrients to get plants off to a good start. Once established, with regular feeding plants should then flourish. It is interesting that the plants have done better in new compost and where additional feed has been applied.
It will not be possible to analyse compost after this time as changes will have taken place. The best advise [sic] is to try and encourage better plant growth with liquid feeding using Tomorite or Miracle-Gro soluble plant food. These are balanced feeds that contain good levels of potash and trace elements to improve the vigour and health of the plants.
To this end, we will send garden vouchers to you that can be put towards the suggested additional feeding.'
So they seem to be suggesting that in order for plants to grow in this compost they need additional even in the first six to eight weeks? ???
Views welcome. :)
G x
HI, Georgie had the same problem , I phoned them they said if I would like to send the bags back to them at my cost they would send me some more well told them that they will be getting no more money out of me. Am know buying compost from hydrogrow systems.co.uk dont buy it direct from them as the postage is very expensive the site tells you were your local stockist is I pay £13-50p for a bag it is compost based it is 100 better than anything else i have used look them up it may help you (plagron royalty mix)
Quote from: Georgie on August 11, 2011, 19:52:00
Hi all
Time to give you all an update. I wrote to Scotts with the following message:
'I am writing to let you know that I am very disappointed with the compost I have purchased from you this year. In May I bought four 50l bags of Miracle Gro Organic Choice all purpose peat free compost from A J Clockhouse in Enfield. I used it in containers for potting on a variety of plants I'd grown from seeds including herbs, salad crops and flowers. None of them flourished. All sat there in their containers neither growing nor keeling over. At first I put it down to the strange weather we had in early June but after 6-8 weeks I realised that for whatever reason the plants were simply not getting the nutrients they needed to thrive. Whether this was down to the soil being too acidic or lacking the nutrients in the first place I do not know. By way of an experiment I changed the compost in some containers, added additional feed to others and left some as they were. The ones that got new (different) compost and those that were fed are beginning to pick up but the others are still stunted or have died. I have some of the compost left if you would like me to send a sample for testing.
I look forward to receiving your response.'
And they responded as follows today:
'Thank you for your enquiry, I am sorry to hear that you have not achieved a good result following the use of the Miracle-Gro compost earlier in the year.
This product is made to high specification that includes good levels of nutrients to get plants off to a good start. Once established, with regular feeding plants should then flourish. It is interesting that the plants have done better in new compost and where additional feed has been applied.
It will not be possible to analyse compost after this time as changes will have taken place. The best advise [sic] is to try and encourage better plant growth with liquid feeding using Tomorite or Miracle-Gro soluble plant food. These are balanced feeds that contain good levels of potash and trace elements to improve the vigour and health of the plants.
To this end, we will send garden vouchers to you that can be put towards the suggested additional feeding.'
So they seem to be suggesting that in order for plants to grow in this compost they need additional even in the first six to eight weeks? ???
Views welcome. :)
G x
Allow me to translate:
"It may well be our compost, but were going to claim its too late to analyse it, so you cant prove a thing. Here's some vouchers, now bugger off"
An interesting reply but one that I would expect!
The key points seems to agree with the consensus in this thread namely;
QuoteThis product is made to high specification that includes good levels of nutrients to get plants off to a good start.
Quote
It will not be possible to analyse compost after this time as changes will have taken place
I took this issue up with the RHS a few years ago to see if they can have the 'spec' written on the bags like the quantity!
For example most bags have a statement to the effect that this bag contained X litres of compost and the time of packaging, could we not have say" this bag has an NPK of a//b/c at time of packaging as well?
Apparently the first part is in law but the second is not required by law!
So as the RHS said; until it is law there is nothing anyone can do about it, which I thought was a poor answer as I had asked them "WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT?"
QuoteThe best advise [sic] is to try and encourage better plant growth with liquid feeding using Tomorite or Miracle-Gro soluble plant food.
WHY SHOULD WE? should be the reply to this statement!
If the spec is so good there would have been no need to add more of THEIR products to get the results we require!
QuoteIt is interesting that the plants have done better in new compost and where additional feed has been applied.
The reply here should be; if the initial spec had been any good there would be no need to do this either!
QuoteOnce established, with regular feeding plants should then flourish.
But we do not use this compost on 'ESTABLISHED' plants we use it on seedlings, and this is the time your initaial spec should come in to play but obviously it doesn't
QuoteThese are balanced feeds that contain good levels of potash and trace elements to improve the vigour and health of the plants.
Could this be construed as the initial spec is not a 'balanced' one?
Then why is this?
The mind boggles :o
I suppose there is one consolation you got some recopence back(vouchers) to purchase more of their rubbish, I would spend it on Tomorite I have found this not too bad but I would stay clear of their compost!
Is it any wonder there are riots around us when commerce & politics treat us like this?
I am glad I am nearing the end of my gardening career because I don't think I could have spent the last fortyodd years with practices like these around me!
I feel sorry for the younger gardeners coming along when the have 'a crop failure' that is not down to them but is due to the stuff they are buying that is not fit for purpose!
Sad!!!! :( :( :(
"Up the revolution" 8)
No compost maker will print the recipe on the bag, every one is a trade secret. Sinclair's have a database of over 10,000 recipies, and only about a dozen peopel have access, its a bit like coca cola.....
Thank so much for your speedy replies. :)
Rugbypost, I will look into your recommendation. :)
Lincsyokel and Tee Gee you have cheered me up no end. ROFL ;D
I toyed with entering into a dialogue with Scotts but assumed I'd be wasting my time. So I'll see what value the vouchers are before I do anything else. I think the compost cost me about £20...
G x
;D ;D ;D, oh Tee Gee, you rebel! Absolutely agree with everything you posted.
Of course they can do something about it. They can get the officials and the MP's to agree to change the stupid law.
I am convinced that these companies are buying the rubbish that we put in our brown bins. Lets face it where do you put your grass cuttings after spraying the lawn with weed killer. What do you do with your carrot root fly infested carrots, the trimmings from you conifers and bits of rotten wood and old canes. We fill up our bins with anything that we would not ever dream of putting on our compost heaps. I wonder how much these companies pay for a ton of the stuff. And I ask are they really sterilised to a high degree. We had this discussion last year and like grannyjanny said after sieving 70 litres of JAB their was barely enough soil to fill a couple of tubs. I found old bits of leather and laminate flooring and all manner of unidentifiable things. There is recycling and recycling. I was told all this by my friendly man at our local tip. All big woody stuff is pulverised and made into cat litter.
Well folks, my vouchers from Scotts arrived this morning so I'm off on a mega shopping spree tomorrow if I can find someone from Securicor to accompany me to the garden centre. Can't be too careful around here these days, especially with a whole £6 to spend. ;D ;D ;D >:( ::)
G x
What a disgrace G,get on the blower and tell em you want your money back as the stuff was not fit for purpose............tell them you will report it to Trading standards >:( Don't let them get away with it x
Quote from: queenbee on August 12, 2011, 22:13:48
I am convinced that these companies are buying the rubbish that we put in our brown bins. Lets face it where do you put your grass cuttings after spraying the lawn with weed killer. What do you do with your carrot root fly infested carrots, the trimmings from you conifers and bits of rotten wood and old canes. We fill up our bins with anything that we would not ever dream of putting on our compost heaps. I wonder how much these companies pay for a ton of the stuff. And I ask are they really sterilised to a high degree. We had this discussion last year and like grannyjanny said after sieving 70 litres of JAB their was barely enough soil to fill a couple of tubs. I found old bits of leather and laminate flooring and all manner of unidentifiable things. There is recycling and recycling. I was told all this by my friendly man at our local tip. All big woody stuff is pulverised and made into cat litter.
the problem is the last labour government committed the country to reducing the us eof peat, in composts, and for ten years the compost makers have been trying to find a credible alternative, and believe me, all sorts has been tried, from shredded carpet (leaches chemicals) to cocoa fibre (shipping it 5000 miles isnt very green). Its all got a snag to it. Furthermore, this and the last government has an irrational fetish for recycling. The fact is all the stuff you but in the brown bin could go straight into landfill and help fill the hole in, because its all natural compostible stuff, but forced to make recycling pay its own way, the council sell it (the going rate is about £10 a tonne.) So the Compost Makers are being squeezed from all sides, and the days of beautiful, dark, black peat based compost are numbered. Your best bet, having been on the inside , is cocoa firbe based stuff, the JAB New Horizon stuff. Compost based on anything other than peat or cocoa fibre isnt going to get any better for a long while.
I am thinking of making my own for next year. Does anyone have a recipe and how do I sterilise my loam/soil?
it's disgusting,the crap we have to put up with ,I'm fed up spending good money on the rubbish compost,blaming myself for the failures ,the seeds ,everything but the compost,until this year .i wont buy anymore going to make my own there must be a recipe out there lets get looking a4a.
Quote from: lottie lou on August 13, 2011, 22:53:14
I am thinking of making my own for next year. Does anyone have a recipe and how do I sterilise my loam/soil?
Ah thats the expensive bit, and the debateable bit. If you sterilise it you may well kill nasty stuff, but you will also kill the good stuff. Ive never sterilised it yet, the trick is to not take it from your allotment.
John Innes seed compost: In the following loam is sterilized and peat and loam are passed through 9mm sieve.
# 2 loam, 1 peat, 1 sand, and
# 0.6kg ground limestone and
# 1.2kg superphosphate per 1 cubic metre of mix.
John Innes Compost for Cuttings:
# 1 loam, 2 peat, 1 sand no fertilizer.
John Innes Composts No's 1 - 3:
# Mix 7 loam, 3 peat, 2 sand
plus one of the following fertilizer mixes:-
J.I. Compost No. 1 Fertilizer to add per 1 cubic metre of mix.
# 0.6kg ground limestone,
# 1.2kg hoof and horn,
# 1.2kg superphosphate,
# 0.6 kg potassium sulphate.
J.I. Compost No. 2 Fertilizer to add per 1 cubic metre of mix.
# 0.6kg ground limestone,
# 2.4kg hoof and horn,
# 2.4kg superphosphate,
# 1.2kg potassium sulphate.
J.I. Compost No. 3 Fertilizer to add per 1 cubic metre of mix.
# 0.6kg ground limestone,
# 3.6kg hoof and horn,
# 3.6kg superphosphate,
# 1.8kg potassium sulphate.
1pot of soil 1compost 1 course sand mix and get planting!Would sterilise the soil ,Will give this a try .
Quote from: claybasket on August 14, 2011, 19:21:49
1pot of soil 1compost 1 course sand mix and get planting!Would sterilise the soil ,Will give this a try .
How are you going to sterilise your soil Claybasket? In the microwave/Jeyes fluid?
Quote from: claybasket on August 14, 2011, 19:21:49
1pot of soil 1compost 1 course sand mix and get planting!Would sterilise the soil ,Will give this a try .
dont forget to put in he fertilisers - you need the lime and the superphosphate at least. Otherwise all you are making in seed compost.
Quote from: lottie lou on August 14, 2011, 22:52:10
Quote from: claybasket on August 14, 2011, 19:21:49
1pot of soil 1compost 1 course sand mix and get planting!Would sterilise the soil ,Will give this a try .
How are you going to sterilise your soil Claybasket? In the microwave/Jeyes fluid?
if your going to sterilise it, you can only do it by heating it , oven, infrared or microwave. if you use jeyes fluid you seriously affect the chemistry of the soil.
With due respect to Lincs but there is a simpler method than JI and you do not have to seek out loam.
2 x 2 gall buckets coarse sand(river)
6 x 2 gall buckets of peat
1x 795 gm packet of Chempak potting base
Mix thoroughly together and that's it!
No worries about sterilising as the peat is inert and is usually quite sterile.
Quote from: Tee Gee on August 14, 2011, 23:11:56
With due respect to Lincs but there is a simpler method than JI and you do not have to seek out loam.
2 x 2 gall buckets coarse sand(river)
6 x 2 gall buckets of peat
1x 795 gm packet of Chempak potting base
Mix thoroughly together and that's it!
No worries about sterilising as the peat is inert and is usually quite sterile.
I wouldn't sterilise peat, the discussion was about sterilising loam, but i wouldn't do that either.
Whats the analysis on the potting base? Most commercial composts use an 8-12-8 base fert, but you also need lime at about 4kg/cum
A old lotie chap use to light a fire in a old oil drum put a shovel of soil on a metal sheet and I thought kind of cook it! he did this for his tomato plants,and the grew very well! Thought i could do this on the old cast iron barby ?i nothing to lose.think a bit of lime might help the compo mix.
Interesting stuff but I'd be interested to know what people think about the level of compensation I received from Scotts. See my post of 13 August.
G x
Quote from: claybasket on August 15, 2011, 06:18:44
A old lotie chap use to light a fire in a old oil drum put a shovel of soil on a metal sheet and I thought kind of cook it! he did this for his tomato plants,and the grew very well! Thought i could do this on the old cast iron barby ?i nothing to lose.think a bit of lime might help the compo mix.
Essentially what they do to produce bags of sterilised soil - its passed under massive infrared heaters, but only heated to about 65C. Thats enough toi break up the more nasty viruses but a percentage of the good bacteria survive.
QuoteI wouldn't sterilise peat, the discussion was about sterilising loam, but i wouldn't do that either.
I agree on both counts
QuoteWhats the analysis on the potting base? Most commercial composts use an 8-12-8 base fert, but you also need lime at about 4kg/cum
I don't have a box at hand with the anaysis on but the sales blurb is as follows;
" These are designed to make mixing home composts as easy as possible.
The growing medium of peat is ideal for most plants but contains virtually no nutrients.
Chempak bases provide major nutrients, trace elements and when required lime!"They do four base mixtures namely;
Seed Base, Potting Base, Multi-purpose base and Ericaceous base..
I stopped using it a couple of years back when T&M took Chempak over and doubled the price of it!
Then I found it was costing me as much to mix my own as buy it ready mixed.
I found before this event I could mix my own for half the price of purchasing a bag of potting compost and I had full control of the quality. e.g. I riddled/seived the peat for seed base and removed any tufts or sticks from the peat for potting compost and this worked well.
This last couple of years which is well documented here on A4A I have had loads of problems with purchased potting compost so I will be reverting back to Chempak next year.
I usually deal with wholesalers but T&M have made this a bit of a 'closed shop' now so there are not so many wholesale suppliers around any more.
I am going to Harrogate show in a couple of weeks time so I will buy some there, at the spring show they were selling 12 boxes (a case) for £25 which is much cheaper than single box purchase of around £3-50 to £4-00 a box.
Does that answer your query Lincs?
Georgia. In answer to your question, I think that amount is derisory. It is about the cost of one bag of miracle gro compost
You can substitute well rotted leafmould for the peat.
An absolute disgrace. I would be tempted to send them back in an unstamped envelope with a not very polite reply ;).
I got £20 from Erin, paid £12 for the compost but they recognised the inconvenience for us.
The only reason I asked about sterilising soil is because I start/grow stuff indoors and I didn't want any yukky things in my house - well not more than normal for me.
We sieved two wheel barrows of lovely compost ,hope to get the soil soon,at lest we got started,must look out for a large bit of tin!then drag out the Barby!