Something GeeGee said in another thread started me thinking......
Quote from: GeeGee on June 18, 2011, 20:10:21
Ohhhh I'm actually quaking in my shoes! Seriously, are allotment committees really that bad? :o
Having only just got my plot and it being on a brand new site, at the moment there is no committee, although they are trying to get one together. It sounds frightening.
I think it's a shame that we only seem to get negative comments about committees from certain people. (I don't mean you GeeGee. :))
I've been wondering what our allotment site would be like if it was not managed by a committee...
I am the Secretary of ours. According to the Council I am the 'Site Manager'.
If we didn't have a committee -
1) The pavilion and kitchen would not be open for people to shelter and make drinks
2) The pavilion and kitchen would never be cleaned
3) Neither would the toilets
4) The waiting-list would be managed by the Council and there would be nobody on site to show people round
5) The Stores would close
6) There would be no website
7) No information about what's happening on site would be sent by email to 70 of our plotholders and notices would not be displayed for the ones without email.
8] There would be no fund-raising so Macmillan and Air Ambulance would lose £thousands each year.
9) Nobody would be available on site for people to go to with their problems
10) There would be no monitoring of water useage so it would probably get cut off.
11) Local schools would not be able to visit.
12) Checks on the cultivation of plots would not be done
I'm sure there are more, what do other committee members think?
There are always people who often criticise and moan but are never prepared to be committee members themselves, or not even just help out when required.
At best it's often a thankless and time consuming task and I for one applaud those who do it.
Without them, as Squash rightly says, all allotmenteers would be a lot worse off.
I would point out that I'm not a committee member but do help out at my horticultural society trading shed every Sunday morning, and at other times if need be. I also help before and after the annual show as well as during it when I'm a steward.
In our case, nothing would be done! We're independent, so the Committee organises the site maintenance as well. We'd have no water (or water repairs); no machinery to maintain the site; no working parties to tidy the site or cut the boundary hedge; no nothing in fact. And we liaise with the local community - police, schools, Chamber of Commerce, Residents' Association, councillors and our MP.
Plus everything that Betty has already mentioned.
Can't add more now - I'm just off to a Committee meeting. We're discussing - among things - machinery we have just bought and may need to buy in the future; whether we need another skip; the annual BBQ; the plant sale next week at the local Primary school; an update on our efforts to get yellow lines outside our gates; and the follow-up to the plot inspections discussed at the last meeting. Probably a lot more, too.
Not all commitees are bad news,ours is in fact very very good. However,we had to put up a vote of no confidence to boot out a bunch of idiots to get where we are today. The former commitee members made everything difficult,its too much to go on about,it would take a novel to fill you in on all the ins and outs. The trouble with some people is that once they are part of a commitee they come over all 'Im something special'! Give them a clipboard and pen and they turn into something else!
In answer to your question I think much depends on the personality of your committee member.
I know Robert had a dreadful time at the hands of some dreadful so called committee members so these awful people do exist.In my own experience some committees are a bit power crazy and can be unreasonable.Some members have had a bop at me in the past and I gave them their answer and they soon backed off.I won't stand any c**p.
In short a committee member is a servant to the good of the site and hopefully has the people skills needed to pull it all together.We all sign the rule book and if you know you stick to the rules their should not be a problem.
.
The biggest problem I ever had was when I was told I could not keep chickens.
With help from members of this forum I was able to prove I could keep chickens under the Allotment act.I never got around to keeping chickens but others did and the members who thought they were better than the law had to swallow it.
I would love to have a plot on a site like Betty's Allotment,to me it sounds ideal.
In general Squash I don't think they are, as you say we only tend to hear about the bad ones, when there are problems. Generally I think they work, but I often think there is often room for improvement. I only know my site, and I'm now on the committee ::) well, it was a matter of helping out, so I do. But I know there are ups and downs, and we are all busy people, so things don't always get done on time, or perfectly, but generally things happen for the good. I think the main thing is to try and keep a sense of balance and proportionality in decisions. Plus to always remember it's a hobby, and we have allotments for pleasure (as well as the food!). I think sometimes we can forget the pleasure.
I know from reading your posts you give a lot to a lot of people, and no doubt there is a lot of pleasure in all of that. So keep up the brilliant work, I think of your site as some kind of beacon for what is best.
Betty for President!!
10 ;)
On our field also, if we didn't have a committee we'd be without all the things on Betty's list, plus :
there would be no machinery (powered mowers, strimmer, rotavators, shredder) available for plot holders to use,
no site maintenance (cutting of trackway verges and community areas, trackway repairs, upkeep of car parking areas, cutting of hedges),
no free 'goodies' such as bark chippings, leaf mould compost, pea sticks, free seeds, pallets,
no BBQ and other social events
no community and wildlife area
no skips for rubbish
no opportunity to purchase potatoes, onion sets etc at discounted prices
Hi everyone!
Well after reading about the Hitler Brigade on the other thread and listening to some of the very selfish requests at the very first 'informal' meeting a couple of weeks ago I took the bold step of thinking 'well if you can't beat them join them'! ;D So in a mad spur of the moment I volunteered to join the very newly formed committee. I thought well maybe I could try to put a bit of balance in if there were a few power hungry monsters in the pack, or those who were only thinking of their own benefits.
Suffice to say I attended the very first 'committee meeting' tonight. It is a very fledgling affair but thank goodness I have to report that no one there seems a Hitler or someone out to feather his own nest.
We managed to agree that we should push the council guy, who is ultimately in charge, to see if he can arrange green manure, leaf mould etc to be delivered. That we would attend a bigger meeting which is held locally and where many allotment committees get together; to see what kind of things they do, how they do it etc.
I have to say I am amazed at some of the things you guys have done for the allotmenteers and hope I can pass on some of these idea for the future of our allotment. It's all a bit difficult at the moment because the allotments have only been there since mid April and to date there is no water or sheds (concrete block ones are being supplied by the council, once planning is approved, because the local residents said they would not agree to any planning applications if the place looked messy).
You need to distinguish between the committees on council sites and self managed ones.
We are a council site which had a committee that faded away through lack of interest. The 3 people who were on the committee are good people but they struggled to "find a role".
So we haven't got a shop or a tea room or anything like that. Do I miss these things? A bit maybe, but you can buy stuff for your allotment cheap enough these days and frankly, I think you'll find most people go to their allotment to grow stuff and get away from it all. We get so much enforced socialising at work, a lot of people just want a bit of peace or maybe to chat to people in their own language: that is what it is like with the Indians and Italians on our site and I would be the same if I were in another country.
You have only got to go to an allotment site Open Day, it is a Sunday morning and the place would usually be buzzing but 90% of the tenants closed their gardens and stayed at home on that day because they don't want to get involved.
And I've found people helpful, got a loan of a rotovator from a neighbour and loads of other help. You don't really need a committee for that.
well done for volunteering GeeGee :)
Another one to add to my original list -
13) Spending three hours this morning with a mentally ill former plot-holder who was wandering around the site picking flowers off people's plots and stuffing them in her pocket. When I started talking to her it was obvious that she was extremely ill.
I phoned our local community police and waited with her till they came. Not because she had picked flowers, but because she had somehow managed to drive to the site but there was no way she would have been able to drive home. I worked in a psychiatric hospital years ago and didn't see many patients as bad as she was this morning.
Two very sympathetic police officers came and spent ages talking to her and then took her (and her dogs) back to her house in their van. They said they would stay with her till her doctor had seen her.
If we were only interested in coming to the site to tend to our plots and not getting involved, who would have noticed this poor woman? Would anyone have tried to help her? Or would they have just got on with their plots and pretended it wasn't happening and it wasn't any of their business anyway.
I look on our allotment site as my extended family. I might not like some of the people very much but I do care what happens to them and I will try to help them if at all possible. That might be part of the reason I'm on the committee.....
Oh that was lovely of you Squash, well done you. :) Poor lady. :(
Too many people nowadays would have just left her or even laughed.
DenbyVistor. Our site is council run, and they do have a paid staff member who is ultimately in charge of the lot. So in truth what he ultimately says will go, I should think. But having said that he has his own allotment and attends these group allotment committees so hopefully he will be positive in his decisions.
At this first meeting of all the plot holders (well those who were interested-quite a few actually) some ideas were put forward which he said if enough were interested he would try to help where possible. Like turning four of the sheds that the council are putting up, into one big one for storage of bulk buying of seed and fleece and the like. I see your point about lack of enthusiasm making the committee dwindle to nothing, but even if it is short lived in many ways, hopefully it will help get the allotment started on an even keel, so we can iron out some of the niggles, like when will the water be connected, etc. Apparently, there is going to be planting of trees and hedges around the site as much for a wind break as anything and then these are going to be maintained by a contractor for the first 4 yrs, which is a good thing. However, one chap wanted to organise work parties to maintain the hedges themselves rather than leave them to the mercies of a contractor 'who might do it wrong'. I put the view forward that we are all on brand new plots and as much as people are all enthusiastic at the moment, that enthusiasm will be concentrated on getting their plots going and that will probably leave them very little extra time to deal with the added burden of sorting hedges etc out and that maybe in four years time when the contract is up and people and plots are established, would be a better time to look at things like that.
TBH I am rather insulted by the idea that you have to be on a committee or be told by a committee to help your neighbours. Especially when it's obvious they need help. A few Sundays ago, one of my neighbours fell to the ground unconcious very suddenly - and I did not need a committee to tell me to check he was still breathing, roll him in to the recovery position then call for a paramedic.
::)
But I wish all new allotment sites the greatest success, and old ones too.
DenbyVisitor, I'm bit confused by your last post. ???
I assume that Squash was down the allotment (possibly on committee business at the time) when she found that poor lady.
I for one would certainly hope that someone/anyone would have the heart and decency to help in someway if they found someone in trouble, not just cos they were on a committee.
Problem is there are people out there nowadays who just won't help, whatever their station in life.
I remember, a few years back now, a young boy was knocked down by a hit and run. Several people in cars just drove straight past and my husband (who had been quite a way back from the accident) was the only person who actually stopped and went to the poor lad's aid. I found that quite sad.
Actually on re-reading Squash's post, I think the point she was trying to get over is that she herself does have a heart and has used this incident as an example of that; rather than 'because she was on the committee she was the one that should help' and it is this need/want to try and help people that pushed her to go on the committee in the first place.
Well done Betty...
To get back to the original question...
YES! ;D
GeeGee it was presented as #13 on the list of benefits of a committee.
Good luck on you new site GeeGee and remember, give everyone a hearing then clear your mind and heart and make your own decisions.
When I wrote about what had happened this morning I was only trying to say that, as geeGee said, it's because I want to help people that I am on the committee. I did not mean that only committee members would help anyone.
But I do believe that there is a need to have a person who is in charge of the daily running of the site. In our case it is me.
Clear my mind? ???
With 1 husband, 3 children, 2 dogs, 5 horses, and the Nutty Professor for a mum - do you seriously think I have a mind left to clear! ;D ;D ;D
Squash64, I know what you meant, I was being a bit obtuse.
But I don't agree with your last statement. There is no day-to-day running of an allotment site to be done. On my site, everyone has a key for the gate and if there are any problems we either fix them ourselves or contact the council. Theres about 60 of us so we all know eachother at least by sight. We have a site notice board and occasionally someone leaves a note otherwise things get around by word of mouth. And it all seems to work very well.
GeeGee ;D
I dread to think of what the allotment would be like without someone to look after the day to day running of it.
We have the benefit of having manure delivered almost weekly. We are sent an email asking us if we want to order any and Betty lets the chap in and takes him around to all the sites that have ordered it. She does the same with the straw when we have a delivery. Our chairman also works hard to ensure that the plotholders get what ever they want from the stores.
We also have an allotment order that goes in to Kings seeds so that we can have the benefit of buying our seed cheaper.
The incident that happened today was just one instance in the day to day running of the allotments.
No-one is asking you to like the way that our allotment is run. The plotholders like it and that is all that matters.
Each to his own
There is day to day running needed on our site (its a council site) and what we have works well for us. Although everyone has a gate key, the keys to the community building, the trading shed and the machinery store are held by various committee members, at least one of whom is usually at the allotments 'mornings'; Access to machinery needs to be controlled in order to ensure that its in good order and safe to use, so its use is recorded and its checked by our field warden between users and he carries out repairs (or arranges repairs) if needed.
Many of our plot holders are retired and they use their allotment visits to socialise which is why we - most weekday mornings - have a communal 'coffee break'.
When there are problems we fix them ourselves if we can, if not the field secretary contacts the council - I don't think they'd be happy having reports of repairs etc needed from different people - and how do you know that a fault which needs fixing has been reported to the council if you don't have a central figure to do this
Quote from: DenbyVisitor on June 21, 2011, 17:43:10
There is no day-to-day running of an allotment site to be done.
GeeGee ;D
You can't be serious!?! Or can't be living in the real world! There are always things to be fixed or sorted. Every time I go to the the plot people nab me - or I nab them - about things that need to be done.
Who sorts out the machinery? Who hunts out the water leak? Who gets "volunteers" to help with the hedge-cutting? Who orders - and fills - the skip? Who liaises with local businesses to get pallets and bark? Who strims & mows the communal areas? Who sorts out problems between plot-holders (before they actually become problems!)? Who cleans the loo?
I'm always around. Every day. People can come up and talk about problems. My email and mobile number are on the notice boards. Most members know where I live. And we've got plenty of other members - not all of them on the Committee - who organise the other bits of day-to-day running: Ted does the plumbing; Michael is Site Manager; Peter organises the hedge cutting; Jenny does the Newsletter; Cathy organises the King's Seeds order; Gerry sees to the skips; Ines & Sue are doing the BBQ; Mick & Rose do the raffle and refreshments; Joe strims the communal areas; Ines & Hanna clean the loo; Marian delivers the Newsletters; and there are almost certainly others I've missed out.
And we've a whole host more who will volunteer at the drop of a hat to help out. A very brief conversation this afternoon with a new member: of course she and her husband would help out at the plant sale on Sunday - and at the hedge-cutting session next weekend.
But none of this would happen if there wasn't a day-to-day presence - available and contactable - to organise things. And if the members don't like what I'm doing, they can vote me out in January....
well our site has no toilets to clean, I pee in a bucket in my shed and chuck it in the compost bin and tenants look after their own machinery, paths and hedges.
And guess what? it works just fine. But perhaps we are doing it wrong ??
We don't do newsletters or tea rooms - shame on us, we just talk to each other.
Seriously, the 64,000 dollar Q is: would our site be better with a committee?
And the answer is: ..................... ???
(no in our case)
And at least as it is now, no one can be overruled by a committee - everyone has a voice to the landlord.
A lot depends on various things.
Council run or private.
10 plots or 500 plots.
City centre/suburban or rural.
Over the years I expect each site as evolved to what is needed/wanted at that particular location. And the same goes for the people on each site.
Squash64 can give herself and the others on her committee a gold star for their generosity. They give their time and knowledge willing as well as raising money for various charities. If this country was run on those lines it would be a better place to live.
Well said Taurus.
They don't do little clapping smilies or I would give you a little line of them! ;D
It is so true, horses for courses, what one site may need another may not. Where our new plots are there are a lot of people who are new to the whole thing. Also at a potential of nearly 150 plots I think the poor man at the council would go off his trolley if he had even half that amount all phoning him asking him the same or similar questions all the time. So probably some form of committee that can gather in the info and then one person passes the requests on, if nothing else will keep the man at the council sane! :) I gather that a lot of people would like to be able to buy good quality commercial seeds, and to do that you need someone to organise it and collect the monies etc. Whether we will have a loo, I haven't the faintest; but I would rather have someone clean it on a regular basis than leave it to chance that everyone is going to be as clean as I would wish it to be before I would use it! And believe you me there is no way I would go in and clean a loo after someone, especially if they had been unhygienic in it!!!! :o Hats off to the loo cleaning people they deserve a medal!
If you only have a small site then you probably don't need a committee because you can all get together or pass messages on to each other and work it out between you. You are in effect a committee in form if not in name.
We don't have "a man from the council". We're independent - that's why we need a committee. In fact, if we didn't have a committee the Society would fold and we would have to give back the land to our landlord, who could - in theory - sell it for housing. And our financial affairs are regulated by the FSA, which also requires a committee to be in place.
But the important thing is how effective that committee is! I think Betula summed it up beautifully!
Exactly my point there Trevor. You need a committee to keep your allotments going back to landlord and on to potential housing, you are just another scenario for the need for a committee. I also agree with Betula that the committee is only as good as the people on it. If you get a power crazed person/people then it can make for some very unhappy lives. To be honest the main reason I volunteered was to try to put some balance into this fledgling committee, so if there were power crazed or self interested parties there they didn't have it all their own way. At the moment they do actually all seem very nice and genuine people who only want to help and get some things organised for the good of everyone on the site.
I'm all for letting people get on with their own thing in their own idiosyncratic ways and if they want my help I'll try to help them. Visa versa I might well learn something from them. I don't get or understand these people who must push people around. Surely it must feel so much better when you have a sense of achievement through helping someone to how a bully feels when he pushes someone to do something against his will?