is it safeto use weedkiller on my plot were i want to grow veggies. if so what can i use?
Its much safer to use a garden fork
Don,t mix with anything you put back on your plot and don,t spray near grass if you are going to put the cuttings around your potatoes ;D Best to bend the back and use a folk ;)
best bet is roundup or resolva 24, one the glyphosphate based ones, they become harmless when they touch the soil.
Quote from: lincsyokel2 on April 28, 2011, 22:14:16
best bet is roundup or resolva 24, one the glyphosphate based ones, they become harmless when they touch the soil.
Hear, hear. Completely safe.
thanks for helpful replies, shall get some tomorrow. do u know how long after using i can plant
Quote from: demelzah on April 29, 2011, 22:44:53
thanks for helpful replies, shall get some tomorrow. do u know how long after using i can plant
Straight away in theory. But you'll find that glyphosate takes a number of days for the effects to become apparent. The weeds will be doomed the moment you spray it on, but they'll only gradually turn brown and wither. It's probably best to allow a week before removing the dead weeds (which will come out easily), then rake the soil over ready for planting.
If you're bold enough, you can calculate when your seeds are likely to germinate, and spray glyphosate a couple of days before. That will kill any emerging weed seedlings, and remove the competition from your veggie seeds as they come through a couple of days later. Of course, if you miscalculate ...
I think the safety of glyphosate is debatable. They changed the wording on it last year I think. Someone who is clever will hopefully have a link to the info.
It's personal choice I know but as a person with health problems it's a BIG NO here.
I have a feeling Tonibloke put up a link previously.
glysophate based weedkillers take up to 2 week to start working on established plants..and generally they should be left until properly dead ..otherwise you might as well dig it all out.
Weeds like dog leaves and nettle may take 3-4 weeks before dead!
If perennial weeds are not brown and dead before turning the soil over..the chemical haven't had chance to work into roots yet and they just produce new growth again.
If you are going to result using weedkillers..do exactly what the label does and don't hurry with the result or your money is just waisted and you end up either doing more harm than good, having to 'fork out' money for re-application and/or just doing it all again the hardway..digging.. ::)
Personally I don't use any weedkillers anywhere near my veg..but I admit using some on areas that would otherwise be hard to keep in check..like paths and other bits of 'waste' ground that is not used for growing.
I don't use it but partly it's just not my habit. I did hear that glyphosate came with other chemicals like surfactants which caused more environmental damage, even though the glyphosate itself breaks down. That put me off a bit. I dig and hoe and it works for me, but maybe it would be easier to use chemicals, I don't know!
I guess if you use the weedkiller long before harvest, you'll be ok healthwise, anyway.
As said earlier get the fork out and get stuck in, no to poisons. :o :P
I took on a plot untouched for 15 years chopped,strimmed,burnt and dug all by hand it's taken 3 years and i am proud of what i have achieved and no weed killer.As others have said you cant beat a fork there bloody brilliant ;D
I do use the very occasional bit of roundup on ground elder or bindweed but I do prefer the traditional hard work method favoured by cornykev and many others.
Recently monsanto has again been found guilty again in a French court of false advertising...
from the beeeb..
France's highest court has ruled that US agrochemical giant Monsanto had not told the truth about the safety of its best-selling weed-killer, Roundup.
The court confirmed an earlier judgment that Monsanto had falsely advertised its herbicide as "biodegradable" and claimed it "left the soil clean".
The company was fined 15,000 euros (£13,800; $22,400). It has yet to comment on the judgment.
Roundup is the world's best-selling herbicide.
Monsanto also sells crops genetically-engineered to be tolerant to Roundup.
French environmental groups had brought the case in 2001 on the basis that glyphosate, Roundup's main ingredient, is classed as "dangerous for the environment" by the European Union.
In the latest ruling, France's Supreme Court upheld two earlier convictions against Monsanto by the Lyon criminal court in 2007, and the Lyon court of appeal in 2008, the AFP news agency reports.
Earlier this month, Monsanto reported a fourth quarter loss of $233m (£147m), driven mostly by a drop in sales of its Roundup brand.
:o That fine is 'PEANUTS' for large company like that! They should have added several zeros for those sums ::) ::)...might as well not bother for those pennies... ::)
Quote from: goodlife on May 01, 2011, 09:52:48
:o That fine is 'PEANUTS' for large company like that! They should have added several zeros for those sums ::) ::)...might as well not bother for those pennies... ::)
I understand that French law, like UK law, imposes small punishments for small offences. Since this was a minor technicality over the wording of the label, it sounds about right.
Here's what the UK pesticide action network has to say about glyphosate:
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/glyphosa.htm (http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/glyphosa.htm)
Interestingly, I believe Resolva (not a Monsanto product) also contains diquat.
Quote from: davyw1 on April 28, 2011, 20:55:23
Its much safer to use a garden fork
A casual Google led to to this: http://www.rospa.com/faqs/detail.aspx?faq=222
which suggests that 2 thousand people each year are injured seriously enough by garden forks to require hospital treatment. If your weeds need a spade to dig them out, you can add another 3,600 a year to that.
Over 100 people each week needing hospital treatment from forks and spades! Does anyone have the equivalent figures for glyphosate? :)
... and PAN-UK is a pressure group which campaigns against the use of chemicals in agriculture and its "fact sheet" is just a random collection of anecdotes from people with similar views.
If you are interested in the facts, you can google Glyphosate MSDS (= material safety data sheet) and find a comprehensive summary of all the safety data warts and all.
And Monsanto weed the world ... I just don't buy it and weed by hand ... a few nettles here and there but better than killing the planet the corporate way >:(
Monsanto are a bunch of crooks. I wouldn't believe anything they said.
Never had the urge to use the stuff on my garden and manage to keep it quite weeds down with just a bit of graft, i get them the same as anyone else after all if you did not then the soil would be no good.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/stumpinsci/Picture266.jpg)
Quote from: grawrc on May 01, 2011, 17:52:28
Monsanto are a bunch of crooks. I wouldn't believe anything they said.
What an extraordinary assertion! ;D
Especially as I understand that they speak very highly of you. :)
After failing to control the weeds (docks, nettles, horseradish and a few other persistent weeds) in the last few years, I am trying a new idea this year (and the weather is co-operating). In despair, I decided to return to my farming days of 50 years ago. I have enlarged my vegetable plot by digging up some more grass land, I then divided it into two, one is for cropping this year and the other is fallow this and will be cropped next year, while the first half will be fallow next year. Whenever the fallow land shows weeds coming through it will be rotavated, killing off the weeds. The cropped area will have to be hoed regularly to control the weeds on that. I am on extremely heavy clay (a mixture of Oxford clay, Kimmeridge clay and Boulder clay).
Quote from: BarriedaleNick on May 01, 2011, 08:42:45
Monsanto also sells crops genetically-engineered to be tolerant to Roundup.
The plants are also genetically engineered to be sterile, so you cant collect the seed and use it for next years crop. You have to buy seed from Monsanto, which is the evil of it, because they charge an arm and a leg for the seed. If any plants seed by accident, you can be prosecuted for copyright infringement if you use them
Pure evil, not nice at all!!!
When farmers buy the seed from Monsanto, they sign a legal document to say they won't save and replant. But like Monsanto, they are in business to make money, see the chance of extra profit and presumably think it is worth the risk.
But all companies will defend their IP rights particularly in the US where these things are pursued vigorously. Possibly Walt Disney has the highest profile amongst companies doing this, have a look at Tabberone's website.
and ofc the danger is that weeds will acquire the gene that makes them resistant to Roundup, and then you have a superweed that cant be killed except by hand weeding. For farmers, that would be the doomsday scenario, hand weeding anything is the nuclear option, financially, but theres evidence it might have already happened and superweeds have already been created.
It was a seriously bad line to pursue, and not in our long term interests, just for one companies short term profit.
Can you imagine mares tails or nettles resistant to weedkillers? They would become almost impossible to eradicate.
Quote from: lincsyokel2 on May 02, 2011, 08:54:33
....
Can you imagine mares tails or nettles resistant to weedkillers? They would become almost impossible to eradicate.
Ermmm, hang on. I thought the "oooh, I'm frightened of nasty chemicals" argument was that it was better in every conceivable respect to dig weeds out rather than treat them with weedkillers.
Surely you should be delighted at the emergence of "superweeds"? Then people like me would have no option but to dig 'em out. Perhaps if we were VERY good children, we'd be allowed to cut them down first and wear gloves. But anyone who mentioned the good old days would be made to pull nettles with his bare hands.
er... weeds haven't acquired any genes from GM soya. Rather, in a few cases, there has been a natural selection process going on favouring weeds with some level of resistance to increase overall resistance in the population. But not by very much.
Quote from: DenbyVisitor on May 02, 2011, 09:24:20
er... weeds haven't acquired any genes from GM soya. Rather, in a few cases, there has been a natural selection process going on favouring weeds with some level of resistance to increase overall resistance in the population. But not by very much.
While what you say is mostly true in that natural selection due to excessive use of Roundup has led to resistance in weeds - I would take a small issue with the scale of the problem. Sure in the UK there is not much with which to be presently concerned but the story is slightly different in the US where Roundup use is "ubiquitous".
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/agcomm/magazine/winter09/cotton.html
http://allenpress.com/pdf/wees/WEES_57.4_435_441.pdf
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1614/WS-07-053.1
The problem is that fields filled with crops with the roundup ready gene tend to get sprayed with roundup!! Year after year and year - which can and does lead to resistance and the subsequent issues.
None of which has much to do with using a bit of Roundup down the plot but natural selection will have its way in much the same way as it has with antibiotics, given enough time.
Personally I'm happy to use a bit of weedkiller on the plot every now and then but I try to keep it minimal and most years I dont have the need to do so. I like digging so it's no bother to me!
Well, I'll just say one more word then sign off.
Monoculture.
:(