Last weekend I was digging on my plot. My neighbour lit a fire in a big drum, and started burning a huge amount of polystyrene! The fumes wafted over the fence in my direction. I was unable to keep digging, it really was a nuisance. He just kept adding more, so I told him he had smoked me out. I said I would come back later and hoped it would be finished by then.
When I got back later he had gone, but left the fire burning, so I put it out. We have had words since, I said I was very upset by the fire and asked him not to burn any more polystyrene as the fumes can cause cancer. He said I had upset him too. No apology, and today he was burning again - not sure what, but yet again the fumes were in my direction. When he left it was still burning.
To be fair, he has helped me a lot in the past, and I have also helped him, so did not wish to fall out, but...
I want to complain to the allotment officer but realise this could escalate, and all I want is to garden without being choked by fumes. Maybe someone can help with some suggestions before I risk causing more trouble than it's worth?
Is there nothing in your tenancy about fires? Our tenancy states fires are permitted only to burn rubbish created from your plot waste, 15-1700hr winter, 18-2000hr summer time. All fires must be supervised at all times and extinguished prior to departing. Failure to comply with this ruling may result in eviction.
Our tenancy rules allow bonfires for garden waste, and warn against being a nuisance. The tenancy can be ended if the rules are broken. But I don't think it is enforced.
I rather think it's illegal to burn anything that creates toxic fumes. I do seem to remember that a tenant who was burning cable for the copper wire inside was at risk of a £20,000 fine for infringement of some environmental act or another. If it's producing black smoke then it's almost certainly illegal. How you approach this situation is, of course, more problematiuc than merely knowing the law,
I cannot sympathise more with you gypsy. People like this do not know what they are doing. I put my feelings down in my blog "A rant against allotment bonfires."
http://tonythegardener.blogspot.com/2010/12/just-moving-some-of-my-posts-from.html
Also:
http://tonythegardener.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-do-i-like-to-bury-rather-than-burn.html
As to what you can do about it, well you can appeal to the allotment committee because there must be something about fire lighting in the constitution. There must be something about bringing household waste and burning at the allotment at any time. There is also recourse to the Environmental Department of your local council because this fire seems to be a nuisance.
Anybody that leaves a fire that they have lit is breaking the law. If they say that they cannot put the fire out then you should send for the fire brigade because it is a fire out of control. If they leave the fire when it is still alight then they are arsonists.
Thanks for your replies. Yes, I am sure it is illegal to burn it but if I report it to the allotment officer he could be threatened with eviction. I was hoping to avoid this, but can't think of an alternative. Also I feel so angry, and I don't want to act in haste only to regret it later. He is a very popular person (so far) at the allotment, and maybe I would be seen as a troublemaker.
Jeez.
I have enough problems with people burning lottie waste, if I was anywhere near that I'd be in hopsital.
What a complete and utter ******. For * read not a very nice word.
Google it - get some printoffs about what is in it [as it is toxic] and give it to him and tell him, you don't want to fall out over it but you absolutely don't want to die either. And you will not accept him burning polystyrene again, and that you are willing to take it all the way if you are ever exposed to these fumes again.
Thanks AJ. I already found and printed off a page about it, but didn't feel brave enough to hand it to him. I will try when I next see him. It is very hard to deal with when he has the allotment next door, but at least it may avoid getting the council involved.
It is illegal in any situation to have a fire which causes a nuisance. Ask the association secretary to have a quiet word with him. :)
We had one person on one site being inconsiderate with their bonfire, which caused some complaints from local residents.
Now, we are all banned from bonfires except for a few days a year and with so many conditions attached I doubt anybody does.
I would tell him of the health risks, and tell him he runs the risk of getting bonfires banned, but if he still does it again I would complain before somebody else does.
print this off, give to nuisance neighbour
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/NoiseNuisanceAndLitter/DG_4018684
Thanks for that tonybloke. I will keep a copy of that too.
There must be something in the name. ::)
Thanks everyone. I had a chat with the allotment officer, who will issue a warning letter. I hope that will send a clear message and be the end of it (apart from the toxic ash fallout). As I am always alone at the allotment I felt uneasy about further conversation with him.
Quote from: daitheplant on January 30, 2011, 19:01:07
It is illegal in any situation to have a fire which causes a nuisance. Ask the association secretary to have a quiet word with him. :)
No, it's not.
If the polystyrene - and nasty stuff it is to burn - if it was brought onto site to burn then that would be an offence under the Environmental Protection Act (I think) and you should complain to the Environment Agency. Complain to the landlord too by all means , but it's the EA who enforce the environmental regs and they should take it seriously.
If you have someone burning stuff regularly and the smoke interferes with your enjoyment of your plot then complain to the local authority and see if they'll declare it to be a statutory nuisance and do something about it.
If a fire makes black smoke which drifts over a road I think that's an offence under the Road Traffic Act or some such and I believe the police will get involved - and the fire service will come and put the fire out, and most likely charge you for the inconvnience.
If you have a bonfire rule then it should ban the burning of anything that either didn't grow on your plot or anything that could be composted, and if the rule doesn't say that then campaign for it to be changed. Bonfires are probably the biggest source of antisocial behaviour from allotmenteers towards their neighbours and sadly some people are just complete goits when it comes to consideration.
Hope you don't get any more problems once he gets the letter. Suggest if he accuses you of arranging to have it sent just say you think a few people were complaining.
(We can't have bonfires on Mondays or Fridays and most people have the decency to ask anyone there at that time if they mind and checkf it's a good wind direction).
Quote from: Unwashed on January 31, 2011, 11:09:16
Quote from: daitheplant on January 30, 2011, 19:01:07
It is illegal in any situation to have a fire which causes a nuisance. Ask the association secretary to have a quiet word with him. :)
No, it's not.
If the polystyrene - and nasty stuff it is to burn - if it was brought onto site to burn then that would be an offence under the Environmental Protection Act (I think) and you should complain to the Environment Agency. Complain to the landlord too by all means , but it's the EA who enforce the environmental regs and they should take it seriously.
If you have someone burning stuff regularly and the smoke interferes with your enjoyment of your plot then complain to the local authority and see if they'll declare it to be a statutory nuisance and do something about it.
If a fire makes black smoke which drifts over a road I think that's an offence under the Road Traffic Act or some such and I believe the police will get involved - and the fire service will come and put the fire out, and most likely charge you for the inconvnience.
If you have a bonfire rule then it should ban the burning of anything that either didn't grow on your plot or anything that could be composted, and if the rule doesn't say that then campaign for it to be changed. Bonfires are probably the biggest source of antisocial behaviour from allotmenteers towards their neighbours and sadly some people are just complete goits when it comes to consideration.
Simon, I hate to disagree with you, but see the document I linked to for the actual Law r.e. Bonfires.
rgds and best wishes from the east coast, Tony
Quote from: Tonythegardener on January 30, 2011, 21:55:05
Thanks for that tonybloke. I will keep a copy of that too.
There must be something in the name. ::)
there must be!! :)
Quote from: tonybloke on January 31, 2011, 12:23:28
Simon, I hate to disagree with you, but see the document I linked to for the actual Law r.e. Bonfires.
rgds and best wishes from the east coast, Tony
Hi Tony. I checked that out after I posted and I wondered if I'd got it wrong, but I didn't see see a contradiction. Where am I mistaken?
Quote from: Unwashed on January 31, 2011, 12:28:28
Quote from: tonybloke on January 31, 2011, 12:23:28
Simon, I hate to disagree with you, but see the document I linked to for the actual Law r.e. Bonfires.
rgds and best wishes from the east coast, Tony
Hi Tony. I checked that out after I posted and I wondered if I'd got it wrong, but I didn't see see a contradiction. Where am I mistaken?
the bit about importing stuff for burning, this requires ( by law) a, waste carriers licence, b, waste treatment licence!!
by law, you are only allowed to burn the 'arisings from within the curtillage'
Quote from: tonybloke on January 31, 2011, 12:45:28
the bit about importing stuff for burning, this requires ( by law) a, waste carriers licence, b, waste treatment licence!!
by law, you are only allowed to burn the 'arisings from within the curtillage'
Yes, that's what I understand too. I said "If the polystyrene - and nasty stuff it is to burn - if it was brought onto site to burn then that would be an offence under the Environmental Protection Act (I think) and you should complain to the Environment Agency." Isn't that right?
Gypsy, you must have some form of tenancy agreement, or terms & conditions? Ours are quite strict on bonfires and state that they must not "cause inconvenience, disturbance, nuisance or offence to any other allotment holder, the general public – including local residents – or vehicles on neighbouring roads." They are also banned during the summer and must not be left unattended.
We front a main road and have houses along one of our boundaries. Our unwritten rule is that if anyone complains, the bonfire goes out immediately (and muggins deals with the problem!).
But our rules also forbid anyone to bring anything onto the site that is not for cultivation purposes. I think this is a fairly common one, so check your rules. And, yes, you do need a licence to carry potentially toxic waste on the public highway.
Don't you have a committee, or even a site secretary? That's what they are there for, to deal with problems on the site and between plot-holders. You need someone who is one step removed from the situation, so that it doesn't become personal.
Quote from: Unwashed on January 31, 2011, 13:01:35
Quote from: tonybloke on January 31, 2011, 12:45:28
the bit about importing stuff for burning, this requires ( by law) a, waste carriers licence, b, waste treatment licence!!
by law, you are only allowed to burn the 'arisings from within the curtillage'
Yes, that's what I understand too. I said "If the polystyrene - and nasty stuff it is to burn - if it was brought onto site to burn then that would be an offence under the Environmental Protection Act (I think) and you should complain to the Environment Agency." Isn't that right?
yes, sorry Simon, reading too many posts, got mixed 'em up.
the environment agency do the prosecution, but I think local councils sort out licences for transport and waste treatment (burning is treating waste, from a legal point of view)
Quote from: tonybloke link=topic=65387.msg664638#msg664638
by law, you are only allowed to burn the 'arisings from within the curtillage'
/quote]
And only if it doesn`t cause a nuisance.
No Dai, you can be fined if your local authority has previously declared your burning to be a statutory nuisance, but in general other than that it's a civil matter for you to sue for nuisance and a single smokey fire isn't enough, because nuisance has a special meaning which is quite a bit more than annoyance.
One or two fires wouldn't constitute nuisance any more than an odd bee sting does. It has to be a continuing nuisance. It's extremely difficult to convince the courts that a hive constitutes a nuisance, and I imagine fires would be just as hard.
I have just been looking at the allotment agreement, which states "You must not burn anything on your allotment except for garden waste from your allotment which cannot be composted". The allotments are run by the City Council, who also issue Bonfire guidelines, including "If you continually cause a nuisance with burning you may be prosecuted by Environmental Health." It also states "Never leave your fire unattended. Never leave the allotment sire without ensuring thst the fire has been properly extinguished".
All of this sounds good, but in practice it is difficult to enforce. I may take photos if the fires continue while I am there.
Thanks to all who have pondered over this, I am hoping for a smoke free weekend at the allotment.
hopefully he has burnt everything he thought he needed too.This is a difficult situation as surely he knew he was doing a wrong thing,so no wonder he was so defensive.fingers crossed for you that this is over with and you remain on a friendly basis
if the fire is left burning unattended, you are within your rights to extinguish it ;)
Quote from: gypsy on February 03, 2011, 12:07:14
All of this sounds good, but in practice it is difficult to enforce. I may take photos if the fires continue while I am there.
It's only difficult if you don't have a strong Committee in charge. We have no problems. Someone must be in charge on your site - the ball's in their court.
Quote from: Trevor_D on February 03, 2011, 16:22:53
It's only difficult if you don't have a strong Committee in charge. We have no problems. Someone must be in charge on your site - the ball's in their court.
You've hit the nail on the head Trevor.
If you have been following my thread 'Unlawful eviction from my plot' you would read that we have similar problems on our site.
Business people rent plots and use them to dump waste and they regularly have fires burning all sorts of non vegetation waste. Asbestos has been dumped and burned on fires.
We have houses on two sides of the site and two roads and complaints about smoke are often.
But we have no site manager and a weak committee, so the burning goes on.
I would suggest contacting the fire brigade. Some years ago we had a building site opposite our house and they were always burning things. In the end one Saturday we had a childrens party and a couple of hours before the whole house and garden were covered in thick black smoke but there was no one left on site. Sp we called the fire brigade. It luckily ;D :-X flared up just before they arrived. That was the last fire on site ever.
Fire officer was not pleased they had left it burning or what was being burned. He came round and spoke to the site manager. The site manager said I was making his life very difficult. Shame!!