Has anyone read in to days paper that it costs 18p to grow a potato and £4.70 to make a jar of raspberry jam. What a load of tosh. I wonder if some people who don't grow their own produce believe this.
I would have to say that the cost of producing 'veg' in recent years has rocketed.
Although I don't know the specific costs (nor do I want to know) of producing any particular crop I do know it is much more expensive than it was thirty forty years ago! (Even allowing for inflation).
When I took up veg growing the purpose behind it was; to subsidise the family food bill, nowadays I don't think that is the criteria for growing!
From what I can gather 'taste' is the main factor for growing veg and people are prepared to pay extra for that.
In my opinion that is the 'sting in the tail' I have always had 'good tasting'veg at a reasonable price not more!!
Commerce has grabbed on to the idea as a niche market and prices have been affected by it!
What is happening now is; tag the 'organic' tag on a packet and you can charge around 50% more. Or buy something marked 'new' and this will probably be around 25% dearer than run of the mill varieties!
The when you think 'new' might only mean it is new to that catalogue and if you went to another supplier who is not classifying it as 'new' then the odds are; it will be cheaper!
In general terms I accept that F1 varieties will cost more but even here the mark up is on the basic price so if it increases so does the price of the F1
As we read here in A4A many of us are saving our own seed is it any wonder when you see some of the prices being asked for e.g. Cumber = £1 per seed (not a packet)
Back to the question;
I buy my potato seed at 45p per pound which is around 7½p per potato!
This is cheap by some standards as I buy my seed wholesale whereas going through a suppler such as T&M. Their prices this year was £3-29 per 10 tubers +pp or if you like around 36p per seed!(nearly 5 times dearer)
I would expect a return of at least 8-10 potatoes per seed meaning the cost of a potato should be under 1p.
OK in commercial terms there is the farmers cut to add, then the wholesaler and retailers cut so if you considered the price doubled per person/s involved it would read;
Farmer 2p Wholesaler 4p Retailer 8p+vat which by my calculations is 14 p per potato!(16½p incl vat) So your price of 18p is not far out!
This year I sowed around 28lb of potatoes (£12-60) I didn't weigh my harvest but I woud say I lifted around 200lbs of potatoes which works out at around ½p per potato. Or if I bought from T&M around 2½p per potato.
Then you could think of it in these term; I buy 200lbs of potatoes @16½p / lb this would cost; £33 as opposed to the £12-60 plus a bit of fertilser I paid!
So yes it is cheaper to grow your own but not as cheap as it once was!
Or am I being too cynical?
It does seem tosh to me. Once you've got your raspberry plants in and growing there isn't any extra cost each year for your jam than a packet of sugar and fuel for the cooking. However I prefer to eat mine fresh or pureed as coulis and the price of fresh raspberries in shops is prohibitive.
I can buy 15 Cos or oak leaf lettuce plugs for €2.50 and grow them on into full size plants - that beats shop bought salad prices hands down. Ditto broccoli and Savoy which I also put in early under cloches to get ahead of my seed sown plants. I can also sow varieties I just can't get in the shops - purple sprouting and cavolo nero for example.
My pumpkin crop has been poor this year, I think from lack of pollination as there were loads of flowers, but even so, for the price of one shop bought pumpkin I can buy a packet of seeds and get several pumpkin plants.
Rhubarb is another almost free crop. Once you've bought a crown, grown it on and split it you have plants for free with crops every year that are fresher and tastier than those in the shops. not exactly labour or resource intensive either except for a good mulch of free horse manure or garden compost every year.
I don't grow spuds so can't comment on those.
I wonder what do they count as part of the cost of producing potatoes etc. Does that include wages, fuel, machinery, insurance etc. If yes, then is not wonder jar of jam would cost that much. ::)
But yes..It is much cheaper to grow your own and if you save own seeds even cheaper ;D
I've never worked it out either but only because I don't want to know. But even a couple of buckets of poultry manure pellets and a box of Miracle Grow will cost you 15 quid. You need vast quantities of netting these days with the rise of the woodpigeon and that is another 30 quid. Then there is the stuff from from Wilkos and Poundland (aka 10-Pound-Land as that is how much I spend when I go in there) you buy through the year.
I wouldn't say my spuds are 18p each but I do look at food in Tesco and think how cheap and CLEAN it looks.
Oh dear, we don't grow a lot, basically because we haven't got a lottie, we only have our garden, which is not enormous.
We grow climbing french beans and runner beans and broad beans. We grow carrots, parsnips and radishes in containers. The Parthenon courgettes are grown in containers in the greenhouse with a view to early crops. We also grow peas. We have found the petit pois waverex the most productive for the small space we have.
The main greenhouse crops are tomatoes and cucumbers, with a few chillies/peppers/aubergines.
We have a cherry tree, strawberries in the greenhouse, raspberries, black/red and white currants. Victoria plum and Bramley apple. Blackberries that are completely out of control and need grubbing out, and blueberries.
Cost has never come into the equation. Yes like everything else, seed is becoming very expensive, but the upside is to step out of your back door and pick the freshest fruit/vegetables. Within a very short time it can be prepared and on your plate. I never ever buy french or runner beans from a supermarket. By the time they are on the shelves they are soo dehydrated. They are simply inedible, even during the british season. And out of season asparagus, no thank you.
When it comes to fruit that is not easy to grow in this country, such as peaches, nectarines and melons. Go for Italian. They produce the best fruit available. French and Spanish are not very good. When it comes to out of season strawberries don't go for dutch - grown in water, taste of water.
Seasonality. ;D
valmarg
I only have a tiny garden, with 3 1m x ½m raised beds (and flower beds), but I grow runner and french beans, tomatoes, cucumbers and sometimes baby corn, and I keep persevering with peas. I will try Waverex next year - thanks for that tip. I tried brussels and caulis this year, without success - suspect I didn't firm the soil enough. I have a huge old pear tree - unfortunately I don't like pears, but I swop fruit with my neighbours who have two old apple trees. I grow a few spuds in bags or pots, just for fun.
I agree that supermarket beans are useless, too big, too tough, too dry.
Cost is irrelevant. Taste and freshness and fun are what counts.
My first allotment year I was not sure that I had saved very much. There were quite a few set up costs. Water butt, spade, trowels, canes, netting, hoe, netting supports, strawberry plants, other fruit plants, seeds :P, etc etc. I suppose if you factor in these costs the veg I produced first year was expensive. But I suppose you should really set these off over several years.
But this year I had most of the basic, got some extra plants and of course seeds :P, and some extra canes and netting but it was very little in comparison so this year I feel I had really profited. I have hardly bought a veg since June and hope to last most of the way to easter and beyond. I am still harvesting £2-3 worth almost daily.
I don't grow large quantities of spuds they seem to me to be a lot of work and don't taste much better than bought ones. We have a huge issue with scab so they do not look too good either. But I enjoyed growing some heritage variieties, mayan gold, mayan twilight, shetland black etc etc. I paid 20p for each seed potatoes and shetland black were quite expensive but mayan gold produced quite a crop so I reckon I got £2 or more from each. Not sure where else I can get this kind of return on my investment.
Next year I am hoping the fruit will take off and yes the first raspberries cost £50 the rest rest will be free. My first pot of raspberry jam will actually cost a lot more than £4.60 .
I cannot understand why they do not pick runner beans earlier for supermarkets. Some of the kenyan ones are not too bad, I go through the box until I find a packet of small ones. I think that the flat french beans are better value. We call them squeaky beans because they squeak against your teeth.
But I love growing veg and actually hardly ever think about the costs.
well, from our original 6 strawberry plants we were given by our mate, Eric, we have 3 strawberry beds and got approx 40 lb of strawberries this year, not including the ones that didn't make it home, to make jam, my only cost is a couple of lemons and some sugar, definitely not 4.70 per jar, especially as I use recycled jars :)
spuds, we spent 3.70 this year on seed spuds and have half a bag of kestrel and 3/4 of a bag of desiree in the garage to say nothing of the lovely earlies and all the kestrels we have eaten :)
Set up costs for an allotment can be high if you buy everything from shops, or low if you use as much second hand/free/recycled stuff as possible.I get browned off though when some people compare the price of supermarket cheapo jam to proper home made jam. If you use new jars, allow for sugar, cooking, labelling, equipment, packing, transport, insurance, selling expenditure, then the cost does add up for small producers/sellers, and you need to do some volume to make it worthwhile. But the cost at the end of the day is nowhere near £4.70 a jar.
My Grandad use a formula which was cost of seeds plus cost of feeds multiply the total by 9 and that should give you a rough prediction of what you should expect from the harvest. So using that idea I should be looking at getting £865.00 worth of vegetables for next years harvest. Thats without taking into account the fruit tthat I have (Strawberies, Blackcurrants, Goosgogs, Redcurrants, Raspberries and Rhubarb). Up to now this year I have a harvest of £1083.00 and theres still Parnips and Swedes in the ground to be lifted
New stuff does jack the cost up for first timers....I was lucky that I managed to freecycle or skipdive a lot of the stuff that I use on the lottie.... except for nets and fertilizer I guess... One thing that does leap to mind though is that although I might not be saving a vast amount of money, I've got a hobby that gives me some exercise and also increeases the quality of the food that I eat...had a shop bought tomato a few days ago (at a friends place) and it was almost tasteless,... These days most of what I'm eating is homegrown, and therefore I know that it is organic (or as near as dammit), I wouldn't be able to afford to buy organic/heritage veg, but I've definitely noticed the food bill (or absence of it) over the last few months....Going to try an dmake my plots feed me more next year (one target would be my lunches....can I make that much soup?)
If I could crack decent salads and grow carrots to match my onions, the only thing I'd ever need to buy would be mushrooms
Load of rubbish only if you take into account buying things like sheds, greenhouses and your time.
Pesonally I think the allotment/real food/GYO backlash has started in the media so expect to see more of these stories in the paper and on TV.
I've seen a couple of examples recently having a pop at Hugh FW/Farmers markets/Middle class allotment trendies etc... While some of these jibes are deserved and somethimes humourous there does seem to be change of tide here. What comes around goes around!
Had raspberries already on the allotment, so cost nothing, had to buy sugar but used recycled jam jars or even glasses when run out of jars. The only cost to me was when I burnt the saucepan and had to throw it away, and spent £9.99 on a stock pot/large saucepan from Morrisons, which seems OK. And had to buy a chest freezer to store all the produce, but OH paid for that. ;D ;D ;D I don't care, only spend what I can afford and it is my favourite hobby, but not today, too cold and rainy. We are going to got another load of FREE compost from the Council in December, so there Kev. ;) ;) Lots of leaves in white bags, but you have to be quick as the Council lorries are on to you and beat you to it.
Since the highest 'cost' by far must be the cost of labour in these calculations, I would discount such economics.
Should we add to the plus side of such calculation factors like for example gym membership fees saved, money saved as I could well have been out shopping instead of gardening, savings to the NHS because gardeners are a fairly fit bunch and so on.
Every year in spring I see supermarkets offering rhubarb at 1.99 (reduced from 3.99 per kilo) and think to myself that I must be sitting on a goldmine. And have you seen the price of apples recently? At harvest time in England? There are no runnerbeans in shops and the tired looking things in plastic bags called runnerbeans are actually long French Beans from abroad. And when I think that I'd have to go to Harrods to buy some of the exotic veg I grow (if they even have them there ...) I am very lucky to get them so cheap from my garden and much fresher than I could buy into the bargain. And 'exotic' starts at snap peas and proper shelling peas, it seems, as neither feature in shops. The mangetouts are also flown in. Cherries cost a fortune and a tiny punnet of 'summer fruit' empties the wallet too in supermarkets. Should I declare my freezer as a 'single item of excess value' on the house insurance?
Yes, the price of seeds and other gardener's needs is going up steeply, but a lot can be done or improvised to keep this to a sensible level.
Quote from: galina on November 14, 2010, 14:14:33
Since the highest 'cost' by far must be the cost of labour in these calculations, I would discount such economics.
Should we add to the plus side of such calculation factors like for example gym membership fees saved, money saved as I could well have been out shopping instead of gardening, savings to the NHS because gardeners are a fairly fit bunch and so on.
Every year in spring I see supermarkets offering rhubarb at 1.99 (reduced from 3.99 per kilo) and think to myself that I must be sitting on a goldmine. And have you seen the price of apples recently? At harvest time in England? There are no runnerbeans in shops and the tired looking things in plastic bags called runnerbeans are actually long French Beans from abroad. And when I think that I'd have to go to Harrods to buy some of the exotic veg I grow (if they even have them there ...) I am very lucky to get them so cheap from my garden and much fresher than I could buy into the bargain. And 'exotic' starts at snap peas and proper shelling peas, it seems, as neither feature in shops. The mangetouts are also flown in.
Yes, the price of seeds and other gardener's needs is going up steeply, but a lot can be done or improvised to keep this to a sensible level.
You are 'leaning on an open door' galina.
I think the 'sense of achievement' is a major factor in all we do. Yes we all enjoy growing, but it's that moment when you pick your first broad beans, peas, tomatoes, strawberries. It really is magical.
And anyway, it keeps us old duckers young, because next year we are going to soo much better. ;D ;D
valmarg
I think these prices (DM Saturday) must be from the 'fashionable nurseries'.We sell potatoes at 75p a kg and make a bit for the association on that to, this article was inflated for bread costs also, our machine baked loaves cost us about 70p .
I would agree with others that cost of allotmenting has rocketed but its cheaper and healthier than a gym membership.
Other people seem to have done more work actually calculating stuff and my brain's having the weekend off. But I feel I agree with those who feel it's cheaper to grow than to buy.
It does depend where you live and shop though. When I was able to buy veg in Tooting market, in south London, the cost of veg and fruit was ludicrously low. In summer, you could get carrier bags of some things for £1. And lots of exotic stuff.
Now I live in a small town, it's swede, potato and cabbage all year, unless you want to invest in a wrinkly aubergine for the price of a small house!
I thought I would read the article before making a comment.
Now I have read it, well it's a load of BS.
My favorate bit about potatoes is ...
QuoteForget about feeding the family all year round, though. Your spuds will all be ready during the summer, unless you buy different varieties and stagger your planting, which will challenge the most enthusiastic beginner.
Here is a link to the full article...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1329319/Going-supermarket-save-FORTUNE.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1329319/Going-supermarket-save-FORTUNE.html)
The point I was trying to make was that people who do not grow their own might read this and believe it and be put off trying. I am sometimes asked "Is it really worth it?". We know starting up costs ar not cheap. Wheelbarrow, tools etc.. but spread over years pay for themselves.
And what about the money we save the NHS by keeping physically and mentally fit? ;)
I replied to the article and agree with Chrispy's comments. ;D ;D ;D
In the beginning we do it for 'fun'. Just to get things growing. Then we do it to have a good harvest and 'eat' what we've grown.
It is just so satisfying to go out and pick the fruit and veg.
There's not much out there at the moment. Some leeks, parsnips and White/Purple sprouting.
valmarg
I think you can do it with hardly any outlay, if you want. You can get tools free sometimes, seeds can be fairly cheap, bits and bobs can come from skips and rubbish tips on-site. (Okay as you can tell, I don't have the most picturesque allotment! ;D)
I agree, if gardening makes people happy and healthy, then whether they save money is not important.
I do think though that part of the happiness, for me, is knowing it doesn't cost money, and is productive - not just more shopping and consuming. In other words I expect I feel virtuous ::) ;D
The interesting thing about the article is that it concentrates on certain things but ignores the best money saving lines. For me it is beans, carrots, brassicas, salad crops etc etc which save me the most and taste the best when compared to the SM offerings.
QuoteThere's not much out there at the moment. Some leeks, parsnips and White/Purple sprouting.
There's loads Valmarg... we had a prawn salad with lettuce, red mustard, sorrel, tomatoes, winter radish, chicory... and spuds, leeks, and sprouts from the lottie today... :)
Other things haven't been factored in - company, friendships and optimism - the "oh well, it'll be better next year"
This misguided article did not mention all the tons of food the supermarkets throw away... who pays for that....
I'm not so sure about saving the NHS money - hernias, bad backs, forks through feet, septic thorns, I've ended up in A&E more than once. :'(
Seriously, though I love my veg plot I couldn't do it if I had to be out of pocket, I reckon I save a fortune - all my tools were virtually free, wheelbarrows from farm sales, I've been using the same netting for years, seeds are saved or bought in sales....there was a thread on here a while back about how much garlic people grow, what would it cost to buy all that? All the pickles, preserves, the fancy herbs...and without growing my own, I wouldn't eat asparagus, or aubergines, or squash....
Hang on, this was the Daily Mail. Of course it's rubbish.
The Daily Mail, a paper determined to label everything on the planet as either the cause of, or the cure for, cancer....
and they've never finished apologising ()if they ever started) for supporting Mosley in the 30's....
Quote from: saddad on November 14, 2010, 21:58:08
QuoteThere's not much out there at the moment. Some leeks, parsnips and White/Purple sprouting.
There's loads Valmarg... we had a prawn salad with lettuce, red mustard, sorrel, tomatoes, winter radish, chicory... and spuds, leeks, and sprouts from the lottie today... :)
Ah saddad, as the good book says as you sow, so also shall you reap. As we have not sown (and unfortunately not had space to sow) chicory, spuds and brussels sprouts. we shall not be reaping. ;D
We have a cherry tomato plant 'clinging to the wreckage' in the greenhouse, several chilli plants, which are very mild, most definitely not the strong rating in the catalogue.
We are left with the leeks and parsnips. :( :( ???
This is not my favourite time of year.
I'll get back to the seed catalogues, and plan for next year. ;D ;D
valmarg
Somethings you grow are probably cheaper in the supermarkets but on the whole the vegetables and fruit are where they make a large part of their profit.
It really does depend on what products you choose to grow. For example the price for runner beans most of the time is about £1 per pound but as we all know these crop so heavily normally the cost of the seed, canes and manure are well covered in the first year.
However some other crops are I agree hardly worthwhile growing in monetary terms but nothing beats the freshness at times.
Emptying and digging in the contents of a compost bin till it got too dark then on the way home a swift couple a pints of(food of the gods) mixed,while putting the gardening world to rights with me fellow plot holders then off home for a sunday dinner where the only thing on me plate i did not grow was the beef...........priceless.
I liked the comment some one put saying if firms considered the first year profit against cost of set up no firm would ever start up. Yes I had to buy tools in the first year, but I am still using them. Yes I brought seeds for the 2009 year but with seed saving I have enough to plant for next year (execpt I will be buying potatoes for next year) and to share with people on my allotment, so basically that means that the cost of the seeds is 0. It is as someone said a backlash against people who want to produce some if not all of their own veggies and yes I am getting chickens (had to put it back to next year as my mother is ill) but that is because I want to know how my chickens and eggs are being produced so until then I only buy free range eggs.
Actually I find the cost of produce in teh Uk to be really expensive. Here in France we have our lovely local markets, long may they reign and buying fruit and veg is really cheap. There is a Moroccan guy that does his own market gardening and I buy from him sometimes, you can tell that he grows it himself. He charges about £1 a kilo for courgettes in the summer, tomatoes can be really cheap when he has too many (like about 60p a kilo) and he does lots of peppers and chillies which rarely go about 1.50-2-00£ a kilo.
At the moment I am paying about 1.50 euros for a kilo of clementines (Spanish but they are tasty) and I buy apples from a local producer, he does small calibres for about £1 (1.20 euros) a kilo.
I am not sure it is financially viable to grow your own veg! Although I guess I pay about 35 euros for all my onions and spuds in the spring and I rarely then buy onion, garlic, echalotes or potatoes in the year, I guess that pays for itself then. The fruit is definitely worth it though - I got kilos of raspberries, lots of strawberries and kilos of gooseberries that you can't buy anyway. And rhubarb is a doddle.
QuoteThe Daily Mail, a paper determined to label everything on the planet as either the cause of, or the cure for, cancer....
and they've never finished apologising ()if they ever started) for supporting Mosley in the 30's....
Yeah and I think they've established once and for all that it's working women who cause cancer ;D ;D
as previous posters have commented the initial setup is expensive tools rotovator and greenhoses dont come cheap ,but as hobby's go it is inexpensive compared to say golf when greenfees are in the £100s and there are is nothing better than the satisfaction of knowing that your eating something that has been sown ,grown and harvested by yourself
Yes exactly - and you don't even need a greenhouse or rotavator. If I had money I would like a greenhouse though, for Aubergines and peppers.
I wonder whether there really is a backlash developing in the media, over grow-your-own. How tedious. Build 'em up, knock 'em down...
I always laugh when I see 10 manky runner beans for 75p in the supermarket; yes collecting beansticks does take time, and involves a £10 pruning knife, a rambo headband and camouflage jacket, but I'd be taking the dog for a walk anyway, so collecting 4 - 6 at a time is no real effort (until it gets to those new swing gates- and I end up getting stuck in trees etc Carry on Coppicing!).
Courgettes 50p each in peak season.................PTAAH!!!
Mangetout £1.20 for an off green pack flown from Kenya....no thanks! these bu&&ers grow quicker than you can look at them, and freeze well too.
French beans...why buy?? 1 wigwam will be sufficient for a family for one or two meals a week, certain varieites can be frozen whole without blanching.
I wonder whether there really is a backlash developing in the media, over grow-your-own. How tedious. Build 'em up, knock 'em down...
Oh definitely, that's what media is for..isn't it ??? Ridiculing anything that is against being famous, rich, beautiful, slim, fashionable..etc, etc,
That new program about "good life"..with Sue and 'what's it'..I know it supposed to be entertainment..but it is all about laughing about life style too...why couldn't make that program in more serious manner and really try to make it work..as experiment...Ohh...I could carry on ranting about that program..but that is for another thread..
Yes and I saw that thread too ;D ;D
I do find their shows annoying as well. I can't help quite liking them and I'm sure they're having fun, but too much showing off.
But don't tar all media with same brush - especially not any brush which has touched the Daily Mail!