This is an ongoing problem that I have when using my bread making machine. The problem is I cant seem to make a light wholemeal loaf. I have tried allsorts but its just not working. Now my bread machine was purchased a few years ago from ASDA (asdas own brand) and was a cheap one. Is it the machine thats the problem? and do I need to purchase a better quality one?
I have even tried 1/2 white flour 1/2 wholemeal flour still no joy!
I have added lemon juice....
Vitamin c powder......
Nothing helps.
Can anyone suggest something new ?
Duke
It could be as simple as adding extra water. I found out that brown bread needs more water than white.
don,t like the machine went back to by hand :D
I bought a cheap machine (Lidl!!) and in fact it is far better than other more expensive ones I tried! It preheats the ingredients and I find that works really well. I make lots of multigrain bread containing partially wholewheat flour and they come out really well. I think too, yes it needs a bit more water and it likes to soak a bit. Put the water in and the flour a bit beforehand, let them settle together, see if that makes any difference.
I will look to add more water and see what happens-thanks all :)
Duke
I think when it comes to breadmakers. you either love or don't particularly like.
I have two friends who have the machines. One loves it and uses it every day. The other's machine is gathering dust in the back of a cupboard.
I love making bread, but I find my Kitchen Aid an invaluable aid for kneading.
I just don't think I would find a breadmaker any better.
valmarg
I have a Panasonic breadmaker. The manual does say that recipes must be follwed to the letter, putting in ingredients in the order as per the book. It is a fantastic appliance that we use regularly. If you no longer have the user manual, have you searched for it online to download a copy?
I find the best results come from using the bread maker to do the kneading cycle only - then knock back and allow to rise before baking in the normal way.- yummy!
I found using it just for the kneading was best; then you can take the dough out and make whatever shaped bread you like. Flatbreads are our faves and with left over dough today I've got a small banana bread rising at the moment.
I make one batch of dough a week, use it for pizza bases and then keep it in the fridge for flatbreads and rolls etc later in the week. It keeps really well and only one batch needs making rather than smaller batches more often.
I have had a lot of problems with my Panasonic breadmaker these past couple of years. Sometimes the bread would turn out like bricks!
I rang Panasonic and they said there was a problem with the gluten in the flour. They recommended buying flour from Waitrose. I did this and got much better results. One thing I have found out by trial and error is to use freshly bought flour as any past its sell by date produces bricks.
You may be interested in this thread:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=25792773#post25792773
Quote from: aj on November 06, 2010, 07:36:40
I found using it just for the kneading was best; then you can take the dough out and make whatever shaped bread you like. Flatbreads are our faves and with left over dough today I've got a small banana bread rising at the moment.
I make one batch of dough a week, use it for pizza bases and then keep it in the fridge for flatbreads and rolls etc later in the week. It keeps really well and only one batch needs making rather than smaller batches more often.
Did anyone see HFW this week when they constructed an oven out of clay for making Pizza bases in the back garden, the eating part looked yummy, :)
I think if anyone is contemplating buying a breadnmaker, the should get a friend that has one to make them a few loaves to see if they (a) enjoy them. or are
(b)edible.
They are quite an expensive piece of kit, so my advice would be to try before you buy. ;D ;D
valmarg
If it is still not working get some Spelt and use it as a 50/50 mix. Spelt rises twice as fast as ordinary flour.
I once bought some brown flour which I tried two loaves with and they were both only fit for the birds, I had some left so rather than waste it I used it with a pinch of cinnamon (butter and sugar) for an apple crumble topping, It was rather nice. Better than the bread.
Quote from: Paulines7 on November 06, 2010, 08:49:04
I have had a lot of problems with my Panasonic breadmaker these past couple of years. Sometimes the bread would turn out like bricks!
I rang Panasonic and they said there was a problem with the gluten in the flour. They recommended buying flour from Waitrose. I did this and got much better results. One thing I have found out by trial and error is to use freshly bought flour as any past its sell by date produces bricks.
You may be interested in this thread:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=25792773#post25792773
Could you tell me why Waitrose flour? Would this be Waitrose own brand?
Duke
I have eaten freshly baked bread for my tea, made by my cheap Lidl breadmaker. It is very good and I have had no problems. Remember to use "strong" bread four and follow the recipe to start with. Now I add different things, such as cheese, onions and peppers as I think fit and it always turns out well.
Hovis do a flour called Country Grain, neither white nor brown but somewhere inbetween. I don't use a breadmaker myself but following the recipe on the packet for the above flour seems to work for me.
Jon
The first thing I would try is including Bread Improver in the mix.
I tried following the recipe to the letter when I first got my breadmaker as a present, and it was hard to have faith as it seemed like a truly weird and revolting mix - including loads of salt, sugar and milk powder. But lo and behold...
... the resulting bread was salty, sweet and heavy as a brick. We tried feeding it to the birds but they were scared of it. ;D
I now make a normal bread recipe, with slightly less yeast. It still sometimes sinks in the middle but it's okay. But it's never fluffy like French bead or packet bread. It's ... sturdy.
And it falls apart when you try and make sandwiches. Probably the lack of proper kneading? I don't know. But it tastes nice.
And I like PurpleHeather's recommendation - spelt flour bread is so tasty.
Quote from: Duke Ellington on November 08, 2010, 18:09:43
Quote from: Paulines7 on November 06, 2010, 08:49:04
I have had a lot of problems with my Panasonic breadmaker these past couple of years. Sometimes the bread would turn out like bricks!
I rang Panasonic and they said there was a problem with the gluten in the flour. They recommended buying flour from Waitrose. I did this and got much better results. One thing I have found out by trial and error is to use freshly bought flour as any past its sell by date produces bricks.
You may be interested in this thread:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=25792773#post25792773
Could you tell me why Waitrose flour? Would this be Waitrose own brand?
Duke
Yes, it was their own brand. Panasonic said Waitrose bread flour does not have the gluten problems, as they import it from North America.
We would recommend Wessex Mill ( Clarks of Wantage) flour and a little their flour improver for wholemeal bread in machines. Excelent also try adding 100g of white
We have used Lidl Bread flour for almost as long as we have had the Bread Machine(Panasonic) We also add Bran, Oats and Malted flour to the mix. Never had any trouble with bread like bricks, except when the yeast was forgotten. True you really do have to get the weights and amounts of things spot on. The Spelt flour makes a decent loaf too. Bread is made overnight every third day so it is a very regular procedure.
Which is the correct yeast to use in bread making, sorry but I have not made bread before, :)
Quote from: Mr Smith on November 13, 2010, 09:13:48
Which is the correct yeast to use in bread making, sorry but I have not made bread before, :)
By far the most reliable if you're just starting is instant dried yeast, available from any supermarket. It comes in sachets, usually 7g each. You sprinkle the contents of the sachet into the DRY flour. If using a breadmaker simply sprinkle the yeast on top of the flour.
Quote from: Melbourne12 on November 13, 2010, 11:27:57
If using a breadmaker simply sprinkle the yeast on top of the flour.
Not according to the Panasonic instructions booklet! It says to put the yeast in the pan before the flour, then add sugar, salt, butter and water. It then goes straight into the breadmaker without being mixed.
According to other sites the Quick Loaf setting is the one which gives heavier bread.
Quote from: Paulines7 on November 13, 2010, 11:38:50
Quote from: Melbourne12 on November 13, 2010, 11:27:57
If using a breadmaker simply sprinkle the yeast on top of the flour.
Not according to the Panasonic instructions booklet! It says to put the yeast in the pan before the flour, then add sugar, salt, butter and water. It then goes straight into the breadmaker without being mixed.
There you go! An upside down breadmaker. Whatever, the yeast goes as far away from the water as possible, in with the dry ingredients.
Quote from: Mr Smith on November 13, 2010, 09:13:48
Which is the correct yeast to use in bread making, sorry but I have not made bread before, :)
I usually buy fresh yeast from the larger Sainsburys stores, where they (I think) make and bake their own bread. A 750g block costs 99p. I don't usually use it all, but at that price I can afford to waste a bit. ;D
The only other yeast I would recommend is the 'easy-blend', which you add to the dry ingreditnts, and then add the liquids. Most supermarkets have their own brand in 7g sachets. Doves Farm does a pack of 125g.
The only yeast I would not recommend is the dried granules. It needs reconstituting, and loses a lot of its strength.
If you are thinking of 'having a go' I would recommend any of the baking books by Linda Collister, in particular The Bread Book ISBN 1-85029-532-8.
valmarg
Thanks for the info on 'yeast', I will now buy myself a bread making machine for Christmas, :)
There is few sorts of dried yeast in the shops too...one is for breakmakers and other for hand making..the first one is quick acting.
Bread problem could be cause many different things..for me is usually the age of the flour or the yeast..
I have never had problem with any particular brand and I've had equally good loaves from cheap and expensive flours.
Too much salt will prevent loaf from rising too..too much flour make bread heavy..too sloppy dough will cause centre to collapse... ::)
My morphy richards have served me faithfully for 10 yrs. I've bought couple of new pans inside and a new hook too..but rest of the machine runs as well as new ;D Last couple or years I've started to to make more and more sourdough in traditional way so my breadmaker is having much more restful days..but every now and then it has its use.
It could be as simple as adding extra water. I found out that brown bread needs more water than white.
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Sorry, I have come in a bit late on this one, but the fault must either be your machine or your flour. I have a Panasonic and have had no problems making wholemeal bread in it.
Someone mentioned Waitrose flour and I am inclined to agree. For the majority of my breadmaking I use Waitrose Very Strong Canadian Bread Flour - available as white or wholemeal and it works beautifully. Having said that, there is no apparent reason why other wholemeal flours should not work. Perhaps try making a small loaf by hand and see what happens. If it works, then bin your breadmaker. If it doesn't try the Waitrose flour.
Good luck! ;)
Hello and Welcome to A4A tracyk859 and JuliaBalbilla ;D
Interesting that Waitrose flour seems to come out tops in recommendations, shame I don't have stores anywhere close to give it a try.
The Waitrose Canadian Bread Flour is recommended for bread making because it has a much higher gluten content.
The American/Canadian hard wheats are infinitely superior for breadmaking, as opposed to the european soft wheats which provide OO flour, and are very low in gluten, and are only good for pasta.
valmarg
I've had fairly some heavy loaves from using just wholemeal (that wasn't strong enough) in the breadmaker - I still like them because they are excellent used like black rye - sliced thin with strong stuff (like smoked salmon).
I find the most important solution (apart from getting the recipe right) is to use the timer.
Always use the longest bake (5 hours on mine) and add timer to make up 7 or 8 hours - preferably to be ready before breakfast.
However if the problem persists the answer is to substitute some very strong white flour. Sometimes 20% is enough, but for a really light loaf suitable for making flexible sandwiches I will go as high as 80%.
It still tastes more 'brown' than a lot of supermarket 'wholemeals'.
In the weaker mixes I used to substitute buckwheat flour @ 20% to add both darkness and flavour - delicious - but it is getting very difficult to source proper grey buckwheat flour - Doves Farm's 'wholegrain' buckwheat went nearly white last year and all the flavour left with the colour.
I haven't bought buckwheat flour since.
Apparently you can extract an expensive medicine from the black husks. Coincidence?
My current alternative is to use 40-60% white and throw in a small handful of stoned chopped dates (with the yeast). They always seem to disappear in the breadmaker cycle and add a wonderful flavour (and a bit of colour) - I'd challenge anyone to detect it 'blind' as anything other than a very tasty loaf.
Cheers.
Vinlander, would hemp seed flour do as a substitute for the buckwheat? It would certainly add colour in small quantities.
Quote from: grannyjanny on January 02, 2011, 08:54:13
Vinlander, would hemp seed flour do as a substitute for the buckwheat? It would certainly add colour in small quantities.
That's a new one on me!
Buckwheat is starchy and widely used (and for centuries) as a bread/crepe-making flour (eg. blinis) and I tend to regard it as a superior substitute for wheat in every dimension except gluten - but only if you can get the proper grey stuff.
It makes fantastic pasta too (soba noodles are an obsession in Japan) but it is
grey!Isn't hemp an oilseed? the oil is outrageously expensive - is the flour expensive too?
However I have tried a different (more strongly flavoured) oilseed before and it works well substituted in small quantities - I've used pumpkin seed flour (hulled green seeds in a coffee grinder and whiz for 10 seconds) - about 10% gives a good flavour even if the resulting green loaf is a bit startling (though a little paprika can cover that).
I'm sure you could use more than 10% hempseed - maybe even 20%.
Cheers.
I forgot to say, when using eggs in bread you need to mix them thoroughly into at least half the water you're going to add - otherwise you might find they don't mix right through or stop other ingredients mixing through.
It may be necessary to add a little extra water in case the egg cooks before anything else - it might lock up some of the water if it does.
I know this isn't a big effect because I'd remember if I added more than 5% extra water, and I definitely don't add that much.
Duke,
Have you the time and the energy to try Nigel Slater's lazy loaf without the yeast in it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/nigels_lazy_loaf_71344
I did and well it turned out to be a hit with the family. I shall try this again over the weekend to see if I got it right the first time round. Could even be used to make rolls if they wanted them.
I think all that where to put the yeast in the bread machine is a lot of codswhollop, My daughter gave me her machine to try out.
I can't remember now when it said to add the yeast, but just before I closed the lid I saw the little paddle thing on the counter, so I just tipped every thing into a bowl put in the paddle tipped every thing back into the machine, by then it was all mixed up. any away we went and it was fine,,,,
qahtan
Landimad ~ yes I did see Nigels Soda bread it looked lovely I will definately give it ago.
Qahtan I often wonder about the rules as to the order of things in the bread machine eg... salt in one corner yeast in another etc. packet bread mixes seem to have everything mixed together and it turns out fine too.
Duke :)
For those who would like a gluten-free recipe there is one on the back of Doves Farm 'white gluten-free bread flour'.
It was in Morrison's at £1.85 a kilo so I wasn't prepared to buy it (and I didn't have a pen) but I did notice that despite having some xanthan gum in it they recommended putting in 2 eggs too.
Which sort of supports my opinion that eggs are better than gum, but I'm sure they are right that both is better still...
It would be a good place to start and then you could experiment by using rice flour with 2 eggs and seeing how it compares.
The other weird thing was that they recommended a teaspoon of vinegar too (??) any idea why?
Cheers.
Thanks for posting landimad. Can you use ordinary milk?
No idea why Dove would recommend vinegar as it contains gluten. I would imagine it would be OK for coeliacs as they can have small amounts but gluten intolerance & autism is a different ball game.
Tommy,
I have used buttermilk due to it being in the recipe. I would not know whether you can use ordinary milk as there is not as much butter fat in milk production today as there was years ago. I am on the green top milk now, but I was brought up on Jersey full cream milk from the farm. Didn't harm me but I would say there are other milks like goats to use instead. If we do not try how will we ever know.
Recipes are there to be messed around with until there is a right and wrong one they come up with that is liked or not by the majority.
Quote from: grannyjanny on January 09, 2011, 09:18:13
No idea why Dove would recommend vinegar as it contains gluten. I would imagine it would be OK for coeliacs as they can have small amounts but gluten intolerance & autism is a different ball game.
Maybe they mean wine vinegar (no grain, no gluten)? or maybe the vinegar you get in downmarket chippies? - it's labelled 'non-brewed condiment' which I suspect means it is industrial (synthesised) acetic acid watered down and mixed with a dash of caramel.
I suppose it may have been bio-ethanol once but I can't see a big hulking molecule like gluten getting through a distillation process.
Actually I can't see something that big getting through the fining (sedimentation) process either - it is used to make all commercial beers (except weissbeer - which I dislike anyway) - beer which is then soured to become 'real' malt vinegar.
The easiest way to settle this is for someone gluten-intolerant to drink the most non-'real' beer available (cheap lager or overpriced US beer) and then progressively try more and more tasty beers until symptoms appear.
Joking aside - I always assumed the suggestion to add Vit C to boost yeast activity was based on its anti-oxidant properties (healthy, fitness-obsessed yeast cells?) but maybe a slightly lower pH also helps them? Most yeasts almost certainly evolved in rotting fruit - which is a lot sharper than rotting grain...
Cheers.
Quote from: grannyjanny on January 09, 2011, 09:18:13
No idea why Dove would recommend vinegar as it contains gluten. I would imagine it would be OK for coeliacs as they can have small amounts but gluten intolerance & autism is a different ball game.
Coeliacs cannot have any gluten at all. Some are made ill even by a breadcrumb. Vinegar doesn't always contain gluten. Malt vinegar does as it's made from barley. But cider vinegar amd wine vinegars are fine.
Some people with gluten intolerance can eat small amounts of gluten, but it's a personal thing so not worth messy with. Someone who's allergic to gluten can't have any.
Not sure what autism's got to do with gluten.
Anyway, back to the original post - I find with wholemeal bread in the bread machine it's worth adding an extra 1/4tsp of dried yeast and using hand hot water (ie - water at about body temperature). I make it with about 3/4 wholemeal and 1/4 white flour. And I never use vitamin c.
My friend's daughter was diagnosed with coeliac disease & was given a book with lists of what was safe. These included Kellogg's breakfast cereals that contained malt extract. It was a while ago perhaps Kellogg's have changed the recipe. There is a group of autistic children who have allergy induced autism whose conditions have improved dramatically when gluten/dairy have been removed from their diets.