A man on our site is in trouble for growing flowers. His plot has a lot of runner beans, a bit of other stuff but is mostly giant dahlias. (He only has a very small plot) He's just mad about dahlias and sometimes exhibits them at flower shows.
Apparently he's at risk of being evicted because a few people on the site feel very strongly that flowers should not be allowed. They sent round a newsletter saying that flowers were only permitted on selected plots.
I find this strange myself. I just can't see why it matters.
But obviously some people feel very strongly about it, because I've heard before of sites where flowers were not allowed, or only a limited percentage of the plot was allowed to be given to flowers.
What's your take on this?
Sorry but I think that is really sad for all the bee's and insects that depend on flowers,
I have flowers on my plot and grow nasturtium around my runner beans and other veg
to help with water retention and shade, and I am sure that my veg are better off
for having them there the bee's and insects seem very happy about too. :)
Well one person said to me that people who grow flowers are attracting cabbage white butterflies. I think perhaps it's all the cabbages we grow which attract the cabbage white butterflies... :)
I can see that allotments are usually subsidised in some way. So perhaps you could argue they should show some social benefit. And growing veg might have a slight edge over growing flowers. But only slightly in my opinion.
We grow mainly veg on our small third of a plot, but the bed that gives me most joy is the flower border. There are 5 wigwams, 3 of which are cascading in hundreds of sweet peas. The other 2 are covered in crimson runner bean flowers. We have sunflowers, cornflowers and marigolds flwering profusely between the wigwams. It looks fantastic, the insects love it, and the smell is amazing as I go up down the path. I think that we should grow what gives us joy. If that's cabbages then fine-if it's dahlia's then that's fine too!
I'm in a dilemma myself. I've dedicated one corner of my allotment purely for wild flowers and I've been told I shall be in trouble. I'm a little stunned from the rumours. Only the other day I had the greatest pleasure watching the bees and butterflies hover and flutter over my beautiful and colourful flowers. I thought we were supposed to encourage the bees for pollination. I appreciate the allotment is for growing food but surely one corner isn't going to hurt is it? I was hoping to install a tiny pond, to encourage the wild life, but I've been told that's a no no!
My plot is jammed with vegetables and I'm proud to say that I have come across toads,newts, snakes and 2 bees nests. How much more natural can you get than this? Are there specific rules where you are not allowed for anything like this on the allotment.
We have a small flower garden, a memory garden for absent loved ones, at the back of our plot, its awash with flowers from sunflowers to Marigolds to Lavander, i love sitting there of an evening watching all the wildlife, theres no rules on our site regarding flowers, seems petty to me
I grow marigolds and lupins. lavender and tansy and various others amongst my veg to attract bees for pollination and to deter blackfly. Why on earth should someone dictate what another grows on his or her plot? If you pay rent surely you can grow what you like.
I love dahlias. :)
The plot next to mine grows only huge weeds, and I know which I prefer.
African marigolds, cornflowers, calendula, sweet peas and sunflowers are all on my plot, planted amongst various veg and fruit. These serve as companion planting and attract the bees and butterflies.
I can't really see a problem, it's not as if he's only growing his runners for the table and leaving the rest to grow wild.
He could also argue some dahlia tubers are edible ;)
Ninny
I suppose it depends on the rules. But in many places allotments are also Leisure gardens so I presume that you can grow anything you choose in a leisure garden.
I do not see the anything wrong with flowers. What about people who grow oversized veg are they to be criticised because they do not eat all they grow.
I grow mainly veg but I also have lupins, sunflowers, poppies, nasturtiuma, cosmos and californian poppies and I have let the globe artichokes go to flowers they are magnificent.
As far as I know you can eat both the tubers and the petals of dahlias. They are not very tasty but who is going to check someone actually eats them. Though please double check before you get eating.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/Edible-Dahlia-Bulbs-Recipes.aspx
Dahlias, nicotiana, nigella, calendula, tagetes, sunflower. flax, crocosmia, cornflower, poppies, lupins, limnanthes, clematis, tulips, daffodils, gladioli, nasturtiums... I had to think about it since my plot is really dedicated to growing veg and fruit, but all these helpful and beautiful flowers are there as well.
Yes, of course, flowers should be allowed. But I suppose if the whole allotment is flowers, and no food is grown, it is not an allotment. I suppose I have better look up the dictionary defination for allotment 'a small vegetable plot'. I suppose if it is mainly flowers that is not too good.
Quote from: lilyjean on July 31, 2010, 22:36:51
I'm in a dilemma myself. I've dedicated one corner of my allotment purely for wild flowers and I've been told I shall be in trouble. I'm a little stunned from the rumours. Only the other day I had the greatest pleasure watching the bees and butterflies hover and flutter over my beautiful and colourful flowers. I thought we were supposed to encourage the bees for pollination. I appreciate the allotment is for growing food but surely one corner isn't going to hurt is it? I was hoping to install a tiny pond, to encourage the wild life, but I've been told that's a no no!
My plot is jammed with vegetables and I'm proud to say that I have come across toads,newts, snakes and 2 bees nests. How much more natural can you get than this? Are there specific rules where you are not allowed for anything like this on the allotment.
If you grow flowers that have a purpose; ie edible in some way - then they have no truck. Echinacea; alliums, cardoons, poppies, voilas, chammomile, etc are all 'edible' and can be easily interspersed with 'wild' flowers [how did THEY get here??? :o ::)].....
And pond; tis just a water collection device that we haven't emptied; innit? I have an upside down water butt stand that collects water; and there is some couch grass growing in it...my OH doesn't know it but this is my pond.....I tell him that we will use the water as backup when the water butt is empty...... :-X
If in doubt just talk about polyculture; it's all about the mix not the straight lines!
YES !!
Sounds like a bit of jealousy if you ask me. Why would anyone object to such beautiful flowers. I think some sites need to update to the here and now. Its not the 1940's for goodness sake. we're no longer trying to feed the country. And there as to be food for the soul to.
Quote from: aj on July 31, 2010, 23:47:00
Quote from: lilyjean on July 31, 2010, 22:36:51
I'm in a dilemma myself. I've dedicated one corner of my allotment purely for wild flowers and I've been told I shall be in trouble. I'm a little stunned from the rumours. Only the other day I had the greatest pleasure watching the bees and butterflies hover and flutter over my beautiful and colourful flowers. I thought we were supposed to encourage the bees for pollination. I appreciate the allotment is for growing food but surely one corner isn't going to hurt is it? I was hoping to install a tiny pond, to encourage the wild life, but I've been told that's a no no!
If you grow flowers that have a purpose; ie edible in some way - then they have no truck. Echinacea; alliums, cardoons, poppies, voilas, chammomile, etc are all 'edible' and can be easily interspersed with 'wild' flowers [how did THEY get here??? :o ::)].....
And pond; tis just a water collection device that we haven't emptied; innit? I have an upside down water butt stand that collects water; and there is some couch grass growing in it...my OH doesn't know it but this is my pond.....I tell him that we will use the water as backup when the water butt is empty...... :-X
If in doubt just talk about polyculture; it's all about the mix not the straight lines!
hahaha!!! Thank you! ;D
I have no problem with a small amount of flowers, sunflowers, french marigolds to keep whitefly away, but the main purpose of an allotment is to grow vegetables and fruit.
Have you got rules on your allotment? What do they say?
This is what ours says:
"I will cultivate and maintain my allotment in accordance with the principles of good husbandry wholly or mainly for production of fruit and vegetable crops for consumption by myself and/or my family and to a standard of at least seventy-five percent of the said allotment being under cultivation."
Nonetheless our allotments were originally created as gardens for the folk living in the adjacent high rise flats (subsequently demolished when someone realised most folk hated living in them). To me a garden is much more than fruit and veg and we are very tolerant of folk who choose to concentrate on flowers or even, in some cases, have a lawn as part of their plot. The bottom line is that it should be well tended and cared for. Your choice what you grow as long as it is legal and not so big and invasive as to annoy others.
We have people on our site who grow Dahlias etc, and for exhibition. I don't understand what the problem is. Do you think there is more to it than meets the eye? Like a personal dispute about some small matter? Or a missunderstanding?
I'd check the rules too. But if not he's more than welcome on our site!
1066 :)
Yes they should, and anyone who says otherwise has a very blinkered outlook on allotment gardening!
My blog post today shows some of the flowers that I grow
http://flightplot.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/summer-sizzlers/
Just because it's an allotment, it doesn't mean that it can't look attractive. What a load of rubbish! Of course flowers should be allowed. What planet are these people living on?
The law states that an allotment is "mainly" for the production of fruit & vegetables "mainly by" and "mainly for" the plotholder and his or her family. Nothing about banning flowers - or grass, or ponds.
:-\
Our site has a rule that says the front of your plot must have a flower bed "minimum 3 feet deep, but no more than 6 feet" I have a half plot and have dutifully flung a few flower seeds in, but I resent every inch. I have marigolds dotted about through the plot for companion planting purposes, but really do not agree with having to give up a relatively large area to flowers. I grow to eat, and although I am aware that some flowers are edible I feel that it is an imposition to be told what I can grow, and where, on my own plot.
Quote from: katynewbie on August 01, 2010, 09:49:10
I feel that it is an imposition to be told what I can grow, and where, on my own plot.
erm, isn't it the council's plot? you only rent it from them?
;) Erm...ok Tony! But you know what I mean, we all see our plot as our own little bit of heaven, don't we? Lol
Well, I'm not from here, and I don't have a garden, but that seems like it would be frustrating. I wonder if asking for an examination of the reasons for the rule might be a step toward changing it. Maybe a little clarification of the rule could help you plan some food that can be mixed with the required flowers. It sounds like a HOA, They always have so many rules.
Well it looks like on my allotment there is a good mixture of Flower and Veg being grown, which is good as i have plans to mix flowers in with the Veg ie.Cornflower,Lupin etc.
I believe I am right that we are talking about Hastings who have the following on the allotment page of their website
Quote9. Plant flowers to make the plot more colourful
http://www.hastings.gov.uk/allotments/default.aspx#whyanallotment
So not only are they allowed they are encouraged.
We have about a quarter of both our plots are filled with flowers. I think the problem with some folks is that they don't like to see a whole plot dedicated to growing flowers when people are waiting for a plot to grow their food on.
QuoteI believe I am right that we are talking about Hastings who have the following on the allotment page of their website
Quote
9. Plant flowers to make the plot more colourful
http://www.hastings.gov.uk/allotments/default.aspx#whyanallotment
So not only are they allowed they are encouraged.
Ha! ;D ;D That's funny! Well, maybe it's to do with the percentage given over to flowers then.
Plus, as 1066 says, perhaps there is personal animosity, or some people are moaning and actually that doesn't mean he really will be evicted.
Shirlton, I do see what you mean. That might be the main answer against allowing people to grow flowers only.
But it's not as if it's a worrying trend, and many people are 'wasting' (if that's what you judge it to be) their plot on flowers, when it could be feeding a family. Most people want their plot to grow veg.
I'm guessing that in terms of wider benefits to society, growing flowers is probably almost as good as growing veg - helping people stay active, relieving stress, forming communities, keeping greenspaces for the city etc. The added bonus with veg growing is that you're encouraging people to eat veg.
We also have the rule of the min 3ft flowerbed on our site. I think it is good. It improves the appearance of the site and helps attract wildlife. We also have a 10x8ft flowerbed on our plot with dahlias, callas, sunflowers and sweetpeas. If someone is growing only cut-flowers and it is well maintained then that is fine in my books.
Flowers are not only allowed on our site - they are encouraged! We even have 'Flower Garden' competition and most visitors to the site comment on how nice the plots look.
Flowers attract bees, what's wrong with that?
Hi all, I think most people on our site grow flowers of some kind.
Some people grow rows of them for cutting but most of mine now stay on the plot because I take little flies home with them. :-X
I grow white and yellow roses along my fence for my wife. I also have lavender there and sometimes a sprig goes home. I grow nasturtiiums all over my plots as ground cover and I also harvest the seeds and pickle them. I have an earth bank on the edge of a plot that is planted with tulips and daffodils and looks beautiful in the spring. The edges of number one plot and under the paths by the greenhouse are planted with daffodils too. Under my apple and pear trees are tulips and daffodils, gladioli, and crocuses. I have had dahlias but now I`m down to one.
I have a roof garden on my shed planted with fried egg flowers and forget=me-nots on the patio with more fried eggs. I also have a container of cornflowers on the patio. I have a fence for sweet peas but I planted beans up it this year. The next plot has beautiful sweet peas and red roses. Lots of people have sunflowers too, I leave them all winter for the birds. I like to leave the poppies to grow where I can, and golden rod for the hover flies. ;D Yep I have flowers ;D Col Mostly we do as we please.
We encourage our plot holders to grow flowers on the border with the pathway - and we even provide free annual flower seeds to anyone who wants them (this year it was cornflowers, calendulas, clarkia, cosmos). People also plant their own choice - one couple has planted mesembryanthemums with French marigolds behind them and then blue cornflowers - looks lovely. We also have loads of sunflowers mostly these are self sown and people just leave them. We have a champion Dahlia grower, and another who exhibits Chrysanthemums (but both also grow vegetables and fruit) - flowers improve our site!
On my plot I have climbing roses (over arches), calendulas, cosmos, pinks and carnations, hollyhocks, cornflowers, penstemons (and lots of chosen wild flowers) - and I originally took on my plot so I could grow flowers (but then started growing veggies as well) - at the time, 20 years ago, no one wanted allotments.
I am not a flower person, but I have some marigolds spread around and some sun flowers that the little un sowed and the odd wild poppy, but who the hell can be against someone growing flowers if its their plot, do they not want to attact bees. ???
Our rules say that you have to grow veg, flowers or lawn, weed free and manured.
;D ;D ;D
There is a great deal of wasted space on our allotments. Just plain nothingness. A lot of people take out their potatoes as well and plant nothing in its place. Sometimes they cover the area with black plastic.
One plot on our site is mainly flowers with some veg dotted around it is lovely.
I do not think it is up the the people on the waiting list to dictate what others do with their allotments. I know it is frustrating but a few years ago no one was interested in them at all.
Quote from: pigeonseed on July 31, 2010, 21:42:21
Apparently he's at risk of being evicted because a few people on the site feel very strongly that flowers should not be allowed. They sent round a newsletter saying that flowers were only permitted on selected plots.
Rules, Grrrrrrrrr!
Councils provide
allotments under S. 25 Small Holdings and Allotments Act 1908.
Allotments Act 1922 make some statutory provisions for the determination of
allotment garden tenancies, and it defines an
allotment garden as
an allotment not exceeding forty poles in extent which is wholly or mainly cultivated by the occupier for the production of vegetable or fruit crops for consumption by himself or his family.Allotments Act 1950 makes a few other statutory provisions for
allotment gardens.
This often turns into a rule that an allotment is to be
wholly or mainly cultivated by the occupier for the production of vegetable or fruit crops for consumption by himself or his family which in turn implies that a few flowers are acceptable, but that more than a few is not.
However, that's only necessary if you want the
allotment garden provisions of the 1922 and 1950 Acts to apply, and there's no particular reason why you should as there's nothing stopping you incorporating those statutory provisions into the tenancy agreement. Even the statutory protection of S.8 Allotments Act 1925 applies to
allotments, and not just
allotment gardens.
So yes, flowers on allotments are great, and there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to grow flowers exclusively if that's what you want to do. Except of course that rule-mongers do love their rules!
Well I'd be stuffed. I'm absolutely useless at growing flowers. Tried nasturtium this year thinking I'd have masses of colour but they didn't grow more than 4 inches across and a couple of flowers. I've planted bulbs and they've never appeared. I've sown wildflowers and nothing, zilch, nada. I've given up on flowers.
Even my 2 giant sunflowers are puny. How can a giant sunflower only be 3 foot tall? :P
Quote from: Magnolia on August 02, 2010, 21:19:25
Even my 2 giant sunflowers are puny. How can a giant sunflower only be 3 foot tall? :P
Hehe!!! I've got some of those too!! Giant Russian? Not likely!!
Amended to teach my iphone to behave!!
YES ;D
I suppose it comes down to what you signed for when you took the plot,I doubt they can hold you to anything other than that.
Good Luck, flowers and me somehow don't work. They die on me.
XX Jeannine
A minimum of 75% of any plot on our site is to be cultivated for fruit & veg.
should flowers be allowed? of course they should! It's interesting to see how many 'little hitlers' there are on the forum, telling folk what they can (or can't) grow for their pleaseure.
As all of our members are affilliated to the Natiuonal Society of Allotment and Leisure Gardeners (Hint, notice the word leisure) we don't dictate what folk can or can't grow, in fact we welcome the diversity of all of our allotments!! ;)
Am I daft?
Surely without flowers we wouldn't have any peas, beans, corgies, toms etc. ???
MP
Wow I didn't expect everyone to be so flower-friendly!
Your plots all sound gorgeous (well although some confess to killing flowers without meaning to!)
I always think flower beds can be easier than veg beds, because if they're not grown for selling/exhibiting, you don't need to fuss over them as much. They need less watering and weeding and feeding. And they do add something to a veg garden, I think.
I think maybe this is a case of people moaning for the sake of it. As my mum would say 'come over here and I'll give you something to moan about'. ;)
Quote from: Jeannine on August 02, 2010, 21:51:49
Good Luck, flowers and me somehow don't work. They die on me.
XX Jeannine
I don't believe that, if you can grow all those squash and pumpkins to maturity, pick a favourite flower and get someone here to help you along the way Jeannine :)
Ninny x
PS. Just don't as me about freesia 'cos I'm totally useless :( :'(
whats wrong with people off course flowers should be allowed, they should be encouraged.
i leave some vegetables to run to seed because i love the flowers and it encourages lots of hover flies. i also grow flowers flowers for cutting.
the carbon footprint of cut flowers is enormous and the chemicals sprayed on these crops is also bad. subscribe to the ecologist there are previous articles about the exploitative nature of the cut flower industry.
it seems to me that since allotments have become popular it brings out the worst in some people, and it has amazed me the trouble on our allotments since the dreaded waiting list started!
waves to AJ, didn't see that picture on the ponds and water feature course!
Ninny I can grow houseplants no problem and outside I am good with vines and roses. I am growing tiny trees for Bonsai too, but the regular flowers just croak on me, myabe I just don't value them as highly. I have those pelag,, whatevers like the the geranium, in my window boxes on the patio and I am OK with those, they look really good actually and I can do a hanging basket or flower hanger but in the garden I always end up with a jungle of flowers all different sizes that die off on me. I have excellent African Violets, but garden flowers don't like me.Hionest..
XX Jeannine
Understood, Jeannine, I know the feeling. When it comes to a choice of tending the flowers here or the fruit and veg at the plot, the latter always wins out ;D
Ninny
I like the fact my flower garden at home doesnt need much tending. Most of my gardening energy goes on the veg.
A flower garden can be very romantic and beautiful. The flowers I love are either tough perennials or self-seeding annuals. I like them to do stuff by themselves, without my input, not just because it's easier, but because I love that half-wild-half-garden look you get when they grow well. And they get better every year, whereas most veg start again every year.
I'm not good with containers though - they just seem to need watering every five minutes and still wilt and go brown out on the south facing front of the house. I'm still working on that.
If any of you would like seeds or root cuttings of my get-on-with-it-by-themselves flowers I am happy to share.
Pigeonseed, consider a watering system. It's some of the best money I have ever spent. I never have to give watering the baskets, tubs and wall-pots a thought.
I think I need to do something. I'll look into it!
Any update on this Pige. ::) ::) ::)
I take it you want an update on the gent with the flowers, rather than my sorry-looking window boxes!
Well, I don't think anything much has happened - except that his dahlias have started to flower, so I expect he will be feeling very happy. If I hear anymore I'll keep you all informed.
He wanted to take them to a show in September, so I wonder how he will get on.
Cheers. ;D ;D ;D
Pleased to hear he has not been thrown out yet.
Was surprised to read this as it is such an old fashioned attitude. Flowers are a bonus on site as not only do they encourage bees and other polinating creatures but they are great as companion plants, and of course they brighten up the plots. Some people on our site don't have gardens so they sometimes have little cutting gardens. The main idea of an allotment is to grow veggies, but flowers are lovely on an allotment. We always grow, sweet peas, dahlias, calendula and marigolds, cornflowers, gladioli and nasturtiams and the odd bright poppy always comes up in the most unexpected places. I also have lupins, penstimens and delphiniums at the front of my plot, which the bees love. busy_lizzie
I passed him on the way home this evening - lots of the dahlias are flowering now and he was very happy with them.
He was starting to construct the temporary shelter which stops them getting damaged by sea fog and rain, between now and the flower show. Those things can make the flowers go brown I think he said. Apparently that temporary shelter is a problem with the council and some other allotmenteers who say it's a structure which is not permitted.
Well, he was going ahead with it anyway. As it's only up for a couple of weeks, and there are loads of fruit and brassica cages, I don't suppose his will make any difference. I can't see a problem with it anyway.
Tell him to get into the habit of sending a few bunches to the local hospital, they will leave him alone then..flowers are as important for healing as veggies for food.We had a man that did dahlias and Crysanths, he used to put a bucket full of bunches at the gate when he had spares with an honesty box for a quid a bunch, proceeds to local shelter. Picture in paper..XX Jeannine
Some hospitals no longer allow flowers Jeannine. SIL was in hospital earlier this year & couldn't take any for her. I don't know how widespread it is though.
I think it is fairly widespread. Everything has to be washable. They also cause allergies.
What a shame,,what about old folks homes
The rules on our plot seem relatively simple "Keep the allotment plot clean, free from weeds and in a good state of cultivation". Nothing specifically about flowers but they have an annual sunflower competition. I planted a few by the shed and they cheer me up no end. I plan to plant up some pots or very small beds near our seat to enjoy any hard-earned breaks from all the work
I'd much rather a few flowers on plots than the weeds some tend to cultivate
I've never heard of a "flower ban" we even have a man who grows exhibition dahlia's on our site so most of his plot is flowers under a large "structure" to keep the rain off the blooms. Well worth a look on the Open Day at the start of September.... :-*
Phew, the world is back on its axis! Saddad is plugging the open day :D :)
;D
We actively encourage people to grow flowers around the allotment, it benefits the allotment twofold.
firstly and most importantly it is for the bees and other polinators, secondly it makes the place look nice
;D
just tell them there for a green manure crop not a thing they can do then lol ;D
not having any rules on our small site, I have one allotment for flowers (well, small gardens really) and half a plot for veg. Laughably, the tenancy ules stae no plants which do not reach maturity in 12 months so everyone who has even one gooseberry bush is in contravention, thereby setting a precedent for defiance. Frankly, I cannot see why someone should have a lawn on their entire plot if they are the ones doing the work. Some other council plots are run by associations (usually tyrants) but our site is too small for that although we are right in the middle of the muesli belt so the last 5 years has seen a huge surge in the waiting lists. Still, over the last 10 years, I have seen fair weather lifestyle gardeners come and go so don't much give a fig for any emotive arguments about growing food to feed the family. I am growing roses and flowers to feed my soul. Who decides what the priorities should be and anyway, it would take a brave council official to threaten me or my plants.