I want to get some more fruit trees. We already have an apple (worcester - not too keen!)
I'm going to get minarettes as I don't have a lot of space and want to use them as a screen and will be buying from here: http://www.kenmuir.co.uk/index.php/trees/minarette-fruit-trees.html
What varieties would you recommend?
I'd like a few apples, my favourite apples are coxes and russets, something crisp and a bit sharp/citrusy. Also cherries and pears, maybe a sweet plum. I'm allergic to plums (so suspect I can't eat damsons or mirabelles either), but DS loves them.
We've got heavy clay soil, they will be in sun from mid-morning until almost sunset. We're in south east england and garden is reasonably sheltered, if that makes any difference!
Why do you want to buy from KenMuir?...they are quite expensive and varieties are quite limited..
If you are interested cheaper options..there is...
http://www.deaconsnurseryfruits.co.uk/ (http://www.deaconsnurseryfruits.co.uk/)
..I've bought many trees from them and they have offer(-15%) going on untill end of June.. ;) ;D
..you are spoilt for choises..just look with M27 rootstocks..as those are same as minarette..
another company I have used is..
www.rvroger.co.uk (http://www.rvroger.co.uk)..but they do less on M27....
Thanks Goodlife. Those are much cheaper! I'm just slightly baffled by all the choice. But I suppose I have a few weeks to decide!
What youre paying for with Ken Muir is that someone has already selected suitable shaped trees and pruned them to minarette form so that when you get them theyll fruit quickly. The other nurseries are selling normal trees that youll have to grow and prune to minarette shape yourself.
We have a minarette screen of Discovery, Fiesta, Egremont Russet and Blenheim Orange.. blocking the view of the shed all on heavy clay... godd croppers and as happy as larry... ;D
Do you react to gages?
If you can get a dwarf then I would recomend a cherry tree-my variety is `Inga` and it`s delicious.
I say dwarf because unless you protect the fruit the birds will get there first.
I made a mistake when planting mine which was not on especially dwarfing root stock-wrong site etc so it never got above 6 feet. But with hindsight that was a good move as it`s small enough to fleece ;D
I would definitely recommend you get an 'Invincible Pear' tree. Loads of lovely butter pears even up here in Glasgow.
I bought my first fruit trees from Ken Muir and those were minarettes as well...years ago though.. but since I have bought from elsewhere and cheaper....difference was that first ones came with laminated instructions how to prune and care for the trees...but the info is available for free anyway, so the difference in price for me is huge..
It is like paying extra for fancy label on shirt... ::)
Aquilegia...if you give a call for any fruit nursery..explain what you are looking for..just like you did to us...most of them are more than happy to give their recommendations...It would be interesting to hear what they would say.. ;)
The minarettes you buy from Ken Muir and elsewhere that sells minarettes are established minarettes. You dont have to start from scratch with a standard tree to make it into a minarette. A tree on m27 isnt a minarette unless it has been trained and pruned to be one. The nursery you posted is selling standard trees on different rootstocks, not minarettes.
Ok...this minarette thing got my brains going as in literature I cannot find any difference between cordon and minarette..
I made a call to one of the nurseries to enquire about it....
well answer was...there is no difference ..so by buying cordon from any other nursery than Ken Muir (minarette for them) you are buying same thing.
As for rootstock..that was my mistake. Apparantly M27 is not vigourous enough for cordon/minarette(in the ground)..M26 is what is used for those ..
I don't have anything agains Ken Muir..they just stock so many 'box standard' varieties..many of them available in supermarkets..nothing wrong about that neither..it just doesn't hurt to know the wide world of varieties that are available...why to settle something 'normal'..when there is hundreds of 'not normal' ones to choose from...after all, not so long ago, purple peas and carrots were so exciting choise for many of us.. ::) ;D ;)
oh forgot another thing... ::)..from Ken Muir book;"when despatched a Minarette will either be one or two years old"...and what I received wasn't much more than a whip with few side shoots..and they did need quite a lot of pruning first couple of years....did come with pruning instructions though.. ::)
Now I buy my trees from nurseries that have experience hands on staff to talk to..you just get so much info over the phone..sometimes individual varieties may have some qualities that may need some attention when pruning or training..and that you don't get from books.. ;)
Quote from: goodlife on June 15, 2010, 14:28:55
Ok...this minarette thing got my brains going as in literature I cannot find any difference between cordon and minarette..
Theyre different. Theyre trained and pruned differently to produce different shaped trees suitable for different situations. Ken Muir is a specialist fruit nursery so I think its a bit naff to state they only stock the same varieties as supermarkets. Have you looked at their catalogue or website recently. It would have been awful if the op took your advice to buy a standard on m27 wouldnt it.
Theyre trained and pruned differently to produce different shaped trees suitable for different situations.
well..actually they are not...I have minarette pruning instructions and cordon...they are same..cordon though can be grown as single or multiple gordons..single ones are usually grown in angle...minarette is cordon, trained and pruned upright instead of an angle...but as well you can plant minarettes in angle..it doesn't make any difference...
And as for pruning..well I'm looking at Ken Muir's own book of fruit...and as for varieties..well 20 varieties of apples is not much....when other specialized nurseries hold hundreds of varieties..
a bit naff to state they only stock the same varieties as supermarkets..actually I didn't..I said many of them..
Weequinie..I do not want argument over this...I simply wanted to give something else to think about..there is nothing wrong about it?
"Apples and pears have traditionally been grown as inclined cordons for hundreds of years. The latest idea is to grow vertical cordons to save space in the garden. These cordons have their leading shoot left unpruned and the fruiting laterals are pruned in the summer.
This type of cordon is often referred to as Minarettes, upright columns or super columns. Plant at 2-3 feet apart."
Quote from: goodlife on June 15, 2010, 17:13:19
Weequinie..I do not want argument over this...
I realise that. You dont want any discusssion at all so Ill oblige you. Minarettes are exactly the same as cordons. Buy standard trees on m27 rootstock. Dont buy from Ken Muir, they dont have enough varieties to chose from and theyre expensive. Buy from the place goodlife recomends, its the only place thats any good.
There, simples.
I have really rubbed you on wrong way..I see..but what you are claiming is not true...My reasons for recommending for some companies are only because I have bought from them and found them good to deal with..and there is nothing wrong with it...I cannot see what I have done wrong for you to be so angry about..I have never said that those are only nurseries that are any good..there is plenty..I never said Ken Muir is not good neither..only that they are pricey..I have never said anything about not having discussion about it or intentionally tried to prevent any happening..
I have been many times given different web sites to see for info and/or options for different things..and never got upset about it..quite opposite..now why me doing same is any different?I have just read all past post and realized that in my apple exitement I should have mention about the tree shape earlier on...yes my mistake...I should have read through my post more carefully..
So...Minarette can be done from maiden whip or buying ready trained cordon/minarette....just to put record straight...
But as this is getting now out of hand..I shall not carry on this tread again....and I'll leave you be...happy?..simples...
For the op, the difference between cordons and minarettes is vigour and how you manage it. When you grow a cordon at an angle and bend the branches to the wires it makes the tree less vigouous and easier to keep to shape/size. A [vertical] minarette is a small tree thats always trying to become a big tree so its harder to keep under control. The RHS website has good information on this and on fruit trees in general, like not buying a tip bearer if you want ot cordon/minarette it. You can pay the premium to have a nursery do the initial formative training and pruning or if youre confident in your pruning skills you could do it yourself. My preference is to buy established minarettes because the nursery has selected the most suitable shaped trees to be minarettes so I at least start with a good shaped tree. YMMV.
If you go for minarettes you are missing out on some great varieties...
I love the same apples you do although I find the cox apples in the shops have been stored to increase sugar and lose tang and crunch in the process.
I don't want to get into an online argument about this - but those readers who like a soft sweet cox would be better off eating the apple pies/strudels/charlottes they obviously prefer to fresh fruit...
Those readers who like "Gala" would be better off eating cardboard soaked in sugar water.
If you sympathise with this view then your absolute first choice should be "Ashmeads Kernel" - it is one of the small number of trees that has an Award of Garden Merit from the RHS for flavour and trouble-free cropping. Nothing else can touch its flavour and sweet/sharp balance, not to mention a perfect balance of crispness without hardness or toughness.
It doesn't look great but that's a bonus in an allotment ;D
On the same flavour choices I would also strongly recommend "Claygate Pearmain" (though Deacons failed to send me the right tree after two tries) and for the only red apple worth eating grow "William Crump".
If you want a really heavy crop of apples to taste crisp and tangy even after storage then you can't beat "Sturmer Pippin".
"Pitmaston Pineapple" and "Court of Wick" have great flavour but they do need to be eaten pretty sharpish - within a week or two from leaving the tree - or they lose the best of their sharpness and crunch.
As to pears - the ones in the shops are at the same stage of ripeness that your own will be when you pick them - it actually makes sense to ripen them off the tree.
To me that negates 90% of the point of growing them yourself...
Grow something that money can't buy - a properly ripened plum straight from the tree. If you've never tasted one you've never lived!
For example: close your eyes while eating a good "Cambridge Gage" and you could imagine it was a miniature kind of mango...
Cheers.
My two-pennorth worth!!
I was always under the impression that 'Minarette' isn't a form of growing, but a trademark as to a type of fruit tree bred for a purpose, as with 'Ballerina' apple trees.
As to Ken Muir versus anybody else. He is expensive, end of story, but, he is a well-respected supplier that has been around for a long time, so he's obviously doing something right! Personally, I would far rather support small, local growers, and/or specialist growers. One of the ones I recommend to my customers is Adams Apples http://www.talatonplants.co.uk/
Their website is really informative and they will soon let you know if a particular var. is suitable for your conditions, they're also v.v. reasonable!!! (NO, I don't work for them! I just believe in supporting good growers.)
Quote from: Torreya on June 18, 2010, 12:29:22
My two-pennorth worth!!
I was always under the impression that 'Minarette' isn't a form of growing, but a trademark as to a type of fruit tree bred for a purpose, as with 'Ballerina' apple trees.
No, if minarette was a trademark the term would be protected and only the trademark holder (ie breeder) would be allowed to use it. It would look like this Minarette
TM. Minarettes are (legally) widely available to buy from different sources.