Hello People, I have just got my first allotment (half size) and confess to knowing almost nothing about gardening. The plot is covered in weeds, I recognize stinging nettles but not the others. There is stuff that tangles around everything and feels sticky, although isn't. When we were children we called it goose grass. Don't know it's proper name. There are also tall narrow plants with big arrow shaped leaves and tiny rusty coloured flower things at the top and there are also masses of smaller plants that have flowers on them like buttercups. Two questions: 1) how can I find out what the weeds are, and 2) If I use something like Roundup can I put the resulting dead stuff on the compost heap, or do I need to burn it? I've got an allotment gardening book that refers to clearing the site, and perennial weeks but doesn't identify any of them. No much good for the complete beginner like me!
http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/weeds.htm this website shows quite a few. I strongly recommend speaking to another plot holder and getting them to help you. Getting this bit right (ie getting most of the nasties out) is often the make or break for new plot holders. ;D
Seabee hello and a warm welcome to A4A.
Your sticky, tanglely weed is probably this one
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,60509.0.html
This website is a good one for identifying weeds
http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/weeds.htm
I'll let someone else answer your other question as I don't know!
Happy gardening! :)
Wow, super fast replies. Thank you very much for those, and the websites which I'll have a good look at. Meantime I've been looking through the past postings (should have done that first) and am coming to the conclusion that spraying is probably not such a good idea. I think I'll try cutting everything down low and finding something to cover up part of the plot (probably pinching lots of cardboard boxes from Morrisons) and then start the digging and pulling by hand process. I suppose I'm being just too impatient. I want to start planting RIGHT NOW. Trouble is being an unfit female OAP I suspect I shall still be digging at Christmas ::)
What you could to do..to give yourself quicker start and chance to start growing something soon...Is identify perennial weeds and dig/fork those out..like spot weeding..you won't get all out, but just majority will do..
and with non-perennial ones=annuals..those you can "just" dig in...
If you have access to a strimmer you could blast all annuals down to grown level and then with spade turn the soil upside down so that in each spadeful all surface with greenery will end up at the bottom of the hole.
That greenery will rot down and as soon as you are starting to get big enough space for growing something ...brake the clumps of soil smaller and get planting...other option is rotavating all annuals in..some will survive from the ordeal but those you can deal with as and when they re-surface.
Main thin is to get ground under the production soon or you will loose a good growing season..if you are trying to be too tidy you won't get nothing growing this summer. Let's face it..weed are never ending job...and then you have all winter to do things more thoroughly... ;)
Brilliant. That sounds really 'do-able'. What a helpful forum. I'm sure I'll be back. Meantime, weather permitting I'll be starting tomorrow. This is what it looked like when I took it over: No. Cancel that. I can't work out how to add a picture. Lol.
Hiya, seabea, welcome to a4a ;D
if you can get some well rotted manure, put your cardboard down, pile the stuff on, cover with some weed control/black plastic, poke a hole and grow squash or courgette through it, if you haven't any plants, some of your fellow plot holders may have some you can use :)
That weed website is great- thanks for the lnk, although there are a few things there which I wouldn't call weeds. But as they say, a weed is just a plant in the wrong place.
hiya, welcome to A4A!
Don't forget some 'weeds' are edible! (but get a good identification book, like a Collins, or a Bushcraft Book).
It makes you feel you're growing food already when you make nettle soup; sorrel cake, shepherd's purse/Dandelion leaf salad, etc!
Or what about wine from bramble tips/elder flower etc. A good book is Drink Your Garden for ideas on this.
Go for 'no dig' if you're creaky, like me. We could always exchange ideas with other 'older/disabled lotty-holders'.
Camo
I absolutely agree with doing the planting as you go. It is enormously encouraging to get something in. I was advised to dig the whole plot first, then plant - hopeless unless you are enormously strong and determined.
Have to admit that when I proudly showed my daughter my "new allotment" she fell about laughing, because I had dug out (very thoroughly!) a place that looked like a baby's grave....but I got past that, put in some lettuces, dug a bit more and sowed some radishes, and so on and so on.
I also made a long thin lasagna bed. I think one of your replies described something similar, but I'll just reinforce it.
Make an outline (string), cover all the weeds thickly with wet newspaper and cardboard, pile it up with as much cut comfrey/nettles/annual weeds, manure, bought compost, soil, leaf mould as you can find, or afford, wet it thoroughly, and plant straight into the top layer (soil or compost, obviously). I got a good crop of squash and tomatoes my first year, starting in early June.
It's hard work, as bad as digging, but very satisfying and encouraging to have a productive bed so quickly. The perennial weeds may work their way through eventually, but are easily got rid of as they appear.
You need to dig it and get all the good-sized roots out, unless you're going to cover it with black plastic or something similar. You'll probably find you have masses of weeds at first - goose grass sprouts everywhere - but they'll diminish in time.
For cardboard to suppress weeds, I'd suggest trying to get large boxes such as the type bicycles are shipped in (much tougher and larger than grocery boxes). Bike shops should happily give you some.
I've just had a chat with newbie in our lottie who ask almost identical questions.. ;D anyway,,long story short..and same advise for you..do not try to do anything fancy this year..like bed plan..paths..etc..just consentrate for digging and growing..and as you get more confidence and some spare time, as you get on top of things..then start doing fancy stuff...
Lot of newbies see others lotties and try to keep up to their standards..but it will take years..and if taking up too much and too complicated tasks..it will all end up in tears as you cannot be here there and everywhere..and lottie will not get done at all... ::)..it will be a bit overwhelming at start..but keep it simple even if it means that you have veg growing in no particular order, they don't need to be in straight lines..just get it in and soon you'll get your first crop.. ;D And don't bother what others might think... ;)..what matters is that you get use out of the land, food and your plot won't become trouble for others...hopefully you will enjoy the experience ;D
Hi and welcome to A4A Seabea :) and congratulations on the new plot ;D
I'm into my 3rd year now and inherited a field of couch and weeds - it's been a sloooooow process, but it's looking great, and I love it! I took it slowly, dug a bit, planted a bit, and covered lots. And gradually I've turned the plot into something half decent, the heavy clay is begginning to look less like rocks and the weeds get dealt with, and I'm starting to get some fantastic crops - it's all still very exciting!
If you can get hold of manure then that does a great job of killing off couch grass - pile it on an area about 3" thick and cover with cardboard or weed suppressant. And a few months later no couch grass ;D
Oh and there's loads of lovely helpful folk on here :)
Definitely go for a lasagna bed if possible. I did that one year and got a great courgette crop. You can plant many things using that system: beans, courgettes, squash,tomatoes, all those can go in now, even if you need to buy a few plug plants.
And do cover up as much as possible. people think you are a bit mad dragging loads of cardboard onto the plot! But you will see their faces drop when you pull it up and there is not a weed underneath. Just a quick fork over and in go your plants.
And for the rest, just keep it trim even if you don't get around to planting yet, Remember that you can still sow now spring cabbage, oriental greens, kale etcfor spring and autumn and put in some leek seedlings bought from the garden centre.
Welcome to the site Seabea I started my allotment last year and I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine.
I also started on a dig and plant basis. My first crop was Tesco Parsley I just divided a pot into four, but I liked seeing some instant growing success.
Here is another site with some weed details
http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/organicweeds/weed_information/weed.php?id=29
Courgettes do not seem generally to have much issue with weeds one they are growing strongly. Nettles are an exeption. I find them a particular pain in the garden, they seem to have two kinds of root. The deep yellow ones and the surface red ones. They will grow from both. I skim the surface to remove the top and the red runners and then dig out the yellow root system. The tops make a good fertilizer by putting in a tub of water. Very smelly but very good way of dealing with the plants.
Goosegrass needs to be got rid of before it sets seed and is difficult because by this time of year it has several stalks and I never seem to get them all and so leave a small piece behind. I try and get rid of as much as possible during the winter/early spring since it germinates very early. Since it is an annual I do not think of it as a major issue it mixes well into the compost bin. We used to love it as children and threw it as each other.
So far unearthed/cleared 4 compost bins, 2 water tanks and a small stream that runs across the middle of the lottie. Couldn't identify all of the weeks but have been happily hacking them down. Halfway through an enormous patch when another plot holder wandered up and said 'do you know what they are - jerusalem artichokes. Aaargh, first major mistake, sure to be lots more. Still he did say they are very resilient!
Oh some people see Jerusalem artichokes as a nuisance anyway! They are really hard to kill! I see that the weeds must have really been something if you couldn't even SEE the compost bins, streams etc!! :o :o :o
Well...your first crop is already there JA's..and even you did hack them down..they will grow again..bit of 'pruning' do not hurt them...once the foliage has died down..back end of the year it is ready for digging up...but dig only what you need at the time as it doesn't store like potatoes does..so you have all winter to much trough them and when you have had enough..unearth rest of them and end of story..or if you decide to like them..leave few in and story continue..
I thought that I did thin mine out.. ::) :o..but they have grown stronger than ever..stronger actions are called for in near future.. :-X :-\
Thanks for the cheery news about the Jerusalem Artichokes. The stream is only tiny, it appears there are several springs all over the site, and the compost bins were there, but mostly covered in weeds. There is also a pile of clods of earth, looks like an aztec temple, and a big area where someones has had a big bonfire. I also found the day after first seeing the plot, a load of tree and bush trimmings all over it. Seems it has been used as a bit of a dump by the neighbours who's back gardens lead onto the site. Anyway am clearing away whenever I get some spare time. Went to the garden centre to look at tools, I only had a pair of hedge clippers and a small spade used for clearing the snow. Wow, they're expensive. Bought some garden gloves and a rake. They didn't seem to have any black pastic weed suppressant so will have to try elsewhere. Cardboard works OK but finding enough stones to weigh it down and prevent it blowing all other the site is difficult. Will be easier when I get bigger sheets of plastic.
Wilkinsons is one of the best places for tools. I would recommend a stainless steel fork and a good hoe.
Also it'll soon be school holidays, which means all the supermarkets and the like of Wilkinsons discount all the gardening stuff to clear it out ready for the "back to school" stuff. Keep your eyes pealed.
I use a petrol lawn mower over the areas I struggle to manage, at least it stops the weeds getting to high and seeding.
For weighing things down, fill up distbin bags with your weeds and use that, or even just a pile of soil. Large water/ milk bottles, the 4 litre kind, full of water will also weigh things down.
For plastic sheeting - ask around the lottie, they'll know the best/cheapest places - theres nothing like local knowledge for plant/weed id, shopping advise and also what grows best in your soil.
I've found lots of black plastic sheeting in skips - I suspect it's pond liner/underfelting or whatever but it does the job. I tend to pick up half bricks too for holding down the sheeting or for raising pots up.
Asda has a few bargains sometimes too for basic tools and I highly recommend Wilkos. Good luck with your clearing.
Before you spend a fortune on seeds have a look here - I wish someone had told me about this place before I spent a fortune elsewhere hence why I mention it to you now....
www.realseeds.co.uk
goodluck :)
ohh...garden centres almost double their prices ...try diy places..they tends to be much cheaper..or even supermarkets..our local asda has all basic tools and cheap too...I have bought mine from Wilko and they have lasted for me several years now...and I use mine for work too... ;) You can get perfectly good spade/fork around £10..it will get you started..and then later on get something what you might fancy better..but as you are only starting, there is so many other things you will need money too..
;D ;D...have we got echo going on here..?..asda..wilko... ;D ;D
Not an echo, but it clearly shows we all know the best places to shop. ;)
I find car boot sales/markets are a much better source for tools there are regularly secondhand high quality Bulldog/Spear & Jackson/Wolf gardening tools offered for under a fiver more often than not they are closer to £1 each. The tools offered may not be made of nice shiny stainless steel & they may be at least 30-40 years old but they will do a much better job & will outlast most of the new ones available.
Thank you everyone for your helpful replies. I will now concentrate on putting them into action. I'm bound to have lots of other questions, but when I do I'll start another thread. Thank you all again.
Quote from: Seabea on June 11, 2010, 13:17:21
Cardboard works OK but finding enough stones to weigh it down and prevent it blowing all other the site is difficult. Will be easier when I get bigger sheets of plastic.
Would milk bottles full of water be heavy enough to hold down the cardboard?
The advice given about doing "simple" is so true.
Other stuff I've learned that works for me:
O a narrow medium heavy miner's hammer for splitting small rocks or a thin claw hammer can do much to loosen big weeds. Let it dig into the dirt with its own weight and pull the weed out with the other hand. Goes fast
O sitting on something low to weed is easier on the back and knees. I sawed off legs from an old chair our neighbor had binned which was pretty comfy. Then a son gave me a toolbox on wheels which is very handy and I can sort of roll along the row. Take a regular chair just to sit and enjoy what you've done. It is too easy to stay in work-mode. Drink lots of fluids and spare your back. One back strain can set your whole garden awry.
O when weeds have taken over around plants you're trying to grow it helps to begin weeding around the specific plant you want to save and then outward from there. I've pulled up many a precious plant by accident weeding from a distance toward it. Wandering mind I guess.
O but once you know what you're saving then instead of pulling out a weed here and there, go in one direction because each weed pulled out loosens the dirt a bit around it making it easier to pull the next one so it pays to be organized about it.
Don't buy your tools from a garden centre - try Wilcos if you have one or Lidls or Aldis.
Could I have the last word on tools, an old gentleman at our allotment told me he had his spade for over 50 years,
He said that it had a few new handles and spade bit, but it was as good as new. It took me ages to click.
;D Queenbee
Seabea - try ESK or Poundland for cheap black weed suppressant - they also do tools but don't know the quality. Years ago I bought a spade and fork from Argos, brilliant quality and still use them in the garden :)