Courgettes and beans have started appearing on our allotments with nice printed labels. Why are the garden centres selling them already, the plants are simply dieing due to frost damage?
To make more money!
Do you think they can return them?
;D ;D ;D
Garden centres have done this sort of thing for a long time..
If you are not in the know you are doomed to failure.
They are seling them because the seed sowing dates and orders and delivery dates were probably made last year. The plants are/should be targeted at folk with greenhouses who want to buy small plants and then grow them on before planting out.
If folk can't read a couple of good gardening books is that the fault of the Garden Centre?
i was caught out terribly with fros and some beautiful fuschias, i bought them and put them out lost the lot, (i would know about veg timings but not flowers as i dont normally grow them) still you live and learn
Quote from: betula on April 20, 2010, 09:10:49
Garden centres have done this sort of thing for a long time..
If you are not in the know you are doomed to failure.
and when you fail they sell you more !clever eh ;)
I know, it annoys me too.
However, the family run nursery I use, where they grow their own veg from seed, has notices up everywhere re frost danger. I succumbed to temptation yesterday and bought an extra, well advanced cucumber plant (despite having my own baby seedlings) for my (heated) greenhouse and practically had to answer a 20 point questionnaire before he would sell it to me!
Quote from: Morris on April 20, 2010, 10:35:06
practically had to answer a 20 point questionnaire before he would sell it to me!
Brilliant...next time you visit them will you give them a praise for that..!
Our local homebase has trolleys full of toms, peppers etc..and half of them dead...I don't think even staff has a idea not to put them outdoors yet...!..Now how do they make profit on that...b&q has staff who don't water plants properly... ::)
Quote from: goodlife on April 20, 2010, 13:09:53
... Now how do they make profit on that...
Just look at their prices per seed/plant.
...yeah... ::)
Quote from: plot51A on April 20, 2010, 08:44:30
To make more money!
I agree
if they all die you will be back to buy again :o
The growers need to shift their goods and the wholesalers are forced to offload onto the retailers. Joe public have to buy these lovelies and get caught out by not having the space that the big guns do.
All in all we pay they gain. That is why they gave the allotment holders the choice of seed or plant to grow. yes growing little plants saves you sowing, but think of what you are missing when you grow from seed. stem rot freezing temperatures and more. If you really want to grow something special then you get it and care for it as you would for anything you want to keep for a long time.
I would give my right arm for the numbers on the lottery, that way I could have the lottie I wanted not just a piece of ground at the back of my house. ;D
Just been done to the allotment another set of courgettes dieing, looked so bonny yesterday. Should be an RSPCA equivalent for plants.
its still to cold out there
at night
The poor plants are shivering
My "delicates" are still snug in the house, in the seed packets... :-X
courgettes love die anyway so no need to blaome shops.
As for tomatoes done correctly you could have planted them out at least 2 months now. and they would have survived like mine.
If you want to plant out now, then you can do so. Just cover everything with a cloche of some sort.
They do not look pretty it is true but they keep off the frost.
Protective covers can be made from all sorts. It is not just the early morning frost which is a problem either, that wind has been raw in some places too.
Quote from: landimad on April 20, 2010, 15:11:48
I would give my right arm for the numbers on the lottery, that way I could have the lottie I wanted not just a piece of ground at the back of my house. ;D
but how would you dig it with only one arm? LOL
Quote from: plainleaf2 on April 21, 2010, 00:14:00
courgettes love die anyway so no need to blaome shops.
As for tomatoes done correctly you could have planted them out at least 2 months now. and they would have survived like mine.
At
least 2 months! Wow!
2 months ago, the temperature here was -8°C. Where do you live? Must be a lot warmer than here, is the 'correct' way to live somewhere warm?
Ok..so please tell us, I am sure many folks would be keen to learn..how do you do it..pictures would be good too.Pleaseb share.
XX Jeannine
I thought all plains were grounded. :-X ;D ;D ;D
Stop it!!
I would genuinely like to learn from plainleaf his skills re early sowing, I think there are many folks who would benefit from it, he seems to indicate that geography doesn't matter, it is the method he uses. although knowing his zone would help too. So I look forward to hearing from him. Also I would like to know which type of toms he has planted out early.
XX Jeannine
Quote from: Jeannine on April 21, 2010, 20:25:48
Stop it!!
I would genuinely like to learn from plainleaf his skills re early sowing, I think there are many folks who would benefit from it, he seems to indicate that geography doesn't matter, it is the method he uses. although knowing his zone would help too. So I look forward to hearing from him. Also I would like to know which type of toms he has planted out early.
XX Jeannine
Also I presume after over two months he has fruit already. fantastic method, I'd love to hear all about it and see pictures of how it is achieved. It sounds like something to really aspire to.
I've started my tommies too early, so I too would like some info to help me become a better tommie grower. :-\ ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: plainleaf2 on April 21, 2010, 00:14:00
courgettes love die anyway so no need to blaome shops.
As for tomatoes done correctly you could have planted them out at least 2 months now. and they would have survived like mine.
haha absolute nonesense ;D
Yes, I often do that, you just get that got to sow itch, but plainloeaf seems to have it right. XX Jeannine
Spill the beans me old mate. ;D ;D ;D
I wonder if he is talking about the method how victorians use to grow stuff out of season...hot bed and cover over......
hmm..I can feel some ideas coming to my head.. ::)deep hot bed..bale square around it, two bales high and old window on top..Perfect.... ;D...and toms will "steam away"...
Quote from: Jeannine on April 21, 2010, 20:25:48
... he seems to indicate that geography doesn't matter, it is the method he uses. although knowing his zone would help too.
I didn't read his original post, (I have all the alias' on ignore), but I think his 'zone' is the Twilight, where a many curious things are possible. ::)
Only time will tell.
the method is not a mystery. all need one warm day for plant out and temps to stay over -12 c till spring or you will need soil heating cables.
the method basically uses two stacked walls of water around welded wire fence tomato cage supported by two wooden posts. it also required a simple top over the walls of water.
first fruit can be had usually by may 1-15 but that is not the only reason for method. The method was developed by Gordon graham of Edmond OK USA.
In 1985 he used it to grow huge plant that was 15.85 meters long with good production
in 1986 he grew 16.5 meter long plant that also produced a 3.53 kg tomato.
the varieties i planted out early were delicious, san marzano, big zac and phils fantastic. my plant out date was feb 10
hope that helps Jeannine
Plainleaf, thank you but I am not sure I understand. I know about walls-of-water the cloche things that you fill but this sounds much bigger. Do you have a picture please. How much area does it take up.What size tomato cage, and please bear in mind that folks in the UK cannot buy tall wire cone type tomato cages like in the US, they are not made. Thank you XX Jeannine
Jeannine if want i will take step by step pictures if how it is done this weekend and post it for all to see if you would like.
Jeannine do they sell wielded wire fences in uk?
That would be great if you could do that, I for one would look forward to the pictures. Yes they do get welded wire fencing, I used to use one that was a six inch square, but very hard to bend, I used to make a wide circle with it. I have read a bit about Gordon Graham but it was his prize winning tomato I heard about not gardening in cool conditions. XX Jeannine
Of course with a great deal of effort you can keep courgettes etc alive at this time of year. But the garden centres need to tell people just how much commitment is needed. I have managed in the past to keep them alive through a -4 night with no greenhouse, but they were well wrapped up in plastic and layers of old clothes and give hot water bottles during the night.
If they were committed gardeners they would not buy courgette plants they are so easy to raise from seed. They expect the garden centres to do the thinking for them, want the plants to be planted out and then thrive.
Even if you went to all that trouble, or planted them on cloches on top of a hotbed, which is at least tried and tested for other crops, I wonder whether toms would fruit that early with our sorter days early in the year. What would they do in a heated greenhouse?
Robert it does take a bit more then the method to get fruit that early, variety is also key.
Also in USA we sort our days into weeks and months how do you sort them in UK.
Weeks and months of course! I do know that variety makes a difference, I'm wondering whether any variety will flower in the short days of spring.
considering you spring day length in longer then my you should have no problem doing it Robert.
Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on April 22, 2010, 13:58:01
I wonder whether toms would fruit that early with our sorter days early in the year. What would they do in a heated greenhouse?
Thanet Earth is a 220 acre heated glass house in Kent, which grows tomatoes throughout the year. Thanet was chosen because days would be too short north of the Thames to produce tomatoes in winter.
Quote from: plainleaf2 on April 22, 2010, 16:42:02
considering you spring day length in longer then my you should have no problem doing it Robert.
What's your latitude then?
I got a PM from Plainleaf offering to meet in the chat room last night to explain this system in depth, I was not able to doso at the time but suggested we organise a time and post it so that any other folks who are interested in this method could join in and ask questions, he has replied and indicated that he will so we must find a mutual time. Thank you Plainleaf..
Considering that I am in Canada and Plainleaf in the US, I guess a fairly late time for the UK would be best.
Robert, this is starting to get a bit technical for me now, so keep it as simple as you can as I am really interested..
Should we move this discussion to it's own place , we have kinda popped the original post I think.
XX Jeannine
today Thursday April 22
as i said my day length is less then yours currently
my latitude is 39° 24'
my current day length is 13h 31m 13s
you latitude : 52° 30'
your current day length 14h 23m 10s
I find that garden centres and other outlets sell stuff early hoping that you will go back for more after you have put it in and a frost comes along, :)
I hate the fact that B&Q refuse to water their trays of plants!! what a waste !!
Duke :)
Quote from: plainleaf2 on April 22, 2010, 21:11:27
today Thursday April 22
as i said my day length is less then yours currently
my latitude is 39° 24'
my current day length is 13h 31m 13s
you latitude : 52° 30'
your current day length 14h 23m 10s
So you're further south, and don't have as much variation in day length as we do. Which is what I suspected.
We will be selling delicates like squash and beans next weekend, hopefully the weather will be kinder but we always give warnings out with plants ;D
Well i disagree , im all for them mistreating thier plants. ;)
I can never afford them at full price and just have to wait a few weeks to buy the half dead ones at a snip ;D, last year i got two kiwis for £1 and five two year old cleamatis for 50p each.
Horray for incompetance at the big stores. Cant forgive wilkinsons though they never seem to discount the plants until they are actually dead.
x sunloving
Quote from: Duke Ellington on April 22, 2010, 21:54:15
I hate the fact that B&Q refuse to water their trays of plants!! what a waste !!
The one I used to work in watered theirs (i wasn't working in the garden centre at the time I should add!). Part of the problems is how often they water stuff, particularly in the summer, and the fact that when the plants come in they're often already not in the best condition. They cram as many onto the danish trolleys as possible and until they're on a shelf it's very difficult to get the ones in the middle watered properly. It would help if they put less on the trolleys but then that means more trolleys and therefore more lorries.
Homebase are probably the best for bargains - they tend to discount stuff when there's only one or two of them left. Got a few decent buys there over the years. The one by us isn't bad at looking after stuff either.
Quotemy latitude is 39° 24'
my current day length is 13h 31m 13s
However although your day length is less the sun rises higher in the sky, so during the middle of the day your sunlight is brighter and hotter. We normally have the advantage of the north atlantic current to warm us up, but the winds have been blowing from the north and so the nights have been cold. (And the ash from Iceland has been blowing our way). By the middle of june the difference will be even more. But mid june we will be getting 1 hr 40min more day than you.
With your expertise in keeping tomatoes through the winter a bit of cold is not a problem for you but some of the inexperienced gardeners on our allotment site having been loosing expensive plants.
Tomorrow the wind will change.
Quote from: plainleaf2 on April 22, 2010, 21:11:27
today Thursday April 22
as i said my day length is less then yours currently
my latitude is 39° 24'
my current day length is 13h 31m 13s
you latitude : 52° 30'
your current day length 14h 23m 10s
Prior to the equinox your day lengths were longer than ours and will be longer than ours after the autumn equinox, plus your sun got higher in the sky, throughout winter, tomatoes need sunlight, a sun skirting the horizon gives little light and for many gardens means no direct winter sunlight at all. In addition to this we have greater length of twilight, more daylight does not interpret to more sunlight.
You are further South than Naples, Rome and Madrid, we are further North than Winnipeg, Montreal and Vancouver. Temperature and weather aside, our growing conditions are
very different.