Our neighbour (lovely man) Is happy to let us use a strip of lland about 100 foot by 9 foot to entend our veg garden.
This is field that has only ever been used for horse grazing and haty cutting since the 50s.
He has offered to plough it for us as he says getting a fork in it would be " a devils own job" Couple of questions
1/ if we plough it it is a big area to keep weed free until all planted...so would anyone recommend putting in a quick green manure crop??
2/ would you suggest rotovating after ploughing (ploughing with small tractor)
3/ploughing wont compact, will it? We have hand dug everything so far and battled bracken and couch in our thin/long strip of garden....but as he is putting up posts/fencing for us...it's case of fence it now...so one off chance to plough.
He has never used amyly whatsit on the land...it has only ever had one/two horses on it and is decent loam on a slight slope. I am so excited.
My main thought about ploughing is that you may be cutting up roots of weeds like couch grass and thistles that then re-grow even worse than before. We have some new allotments on our site that used to have ponies on them and the parish council had them rotavated before handing them over which made a lot of work for the new people trying to clear the weeds as they were back within a couple of weeks, some ended up with black plastic for a good long while to clear it.
It's a difficult answer really as different people have different ideas on this one. See what other answers you get and decide which is best for you. Maybe something like putting down weed control fabric and cutting holes and growing squashes, courgettes and sweetcorn through it for this year?
If you can dig up turfs and stack them and cover with black plastic eventually in a couple of years you will have some good loam there.
Good luck whatever you do, it sounds a lovely spot.
That's good provenance for land! It will have built up a high level of organic matter in the top layer where it is needed, which you should be careful not to burn off too quickly. A conventional grower would plough, and produce a quick flush of nutrients from the decaying remains of the soil organisms and organic matter. This gives a good yield in the first year, but is metaphorically 'flogging the family silver'. Ploughing is especially bad if you are not going to get it all under crop straight away, as much of the flush of nutrients will be lost to leaching, or feeding weeds.
If it were me, I'd be a miser with that organic matter, and be keen to maintain the perfect soil structure - I'd mow to keep it under control, and mulch out those areas that you are ready to use (you could use the mowings as the mulch, perhaps with cardboard under it). If you are in a real hurry for part of the land you could dig it, and plant immediately with potatoes to clear the beds.
Working by hand also means that you will get to know your new soil properly. You'll be able to sense differences in the texture etc in different parts of the plot. Ploughing wont give you that.
Thanks for this, really interesting. The grass he has snt weedy, its well maintainned pasture? If we had ploughed I was thinking of planting this for fixing nutrients/giving cover to stop weeds? But I could be talking twaddle :)
http://www.greenmanure.co.uk/redclover.htm
lucky you!
the problem with green manures is that they're mostly perennials (weeds)and really only work if they can be ploughed in again after. Your link to red clover seemed to think that "deep roots" was something to be pleased about ;D
it's not recommended I think to plant potatoes in newly cleared grassland - due to wireworm
if it was me i'd probably get it ploughed, cover it with fabric and grow winter squash on it
actually if it was me, i'd have a go at taking up the turf layer by hand and then getting it ploughed
Thanks all, I always learn when I come on here. Off to try and lift turf....I may be gone some time....................................................................
if it would be mine....
I definately would have it ploughed.."virgin ground" is too heavy and compacted to weed without mechanical help first...
then I would rotavate it.. :o..yes...to get rid of clumps and get it more even texture...never mind the weeds..you are never going to get rid of them from "virgin ground" anyway...
then the area what you would not use immediately I would sow with phacelia...annual...and even if you don't have time to dig it in you can let it flower and wild life will benefit..pretty too..it won't effect crop rotation cheme...and even if it self seed it is easy to dig in then..
as to a weeding..well you soil is loose now..and yes..millions of weeds are coming through but atleast you can get your fork in and deal with it without needing to jump on you spade or fork to just get solid piece out of ground and then to brake it to get weed or root out...huh..impossible job..believe me...go and try a square first... ::)
Just broke a d**n good handle trying to turn over one spit! It's going to be a plough job then rotovate... as it is compacted/grass layer underneath the green bit. That was incredible :(
Have a look a www.cotsworldseeds.com for large quantities of greenmanure..
That's http://www.cotswoldseeds.com/green_manures.html (http://www.cotswoldseeds.com/green_manures.html) ;)
Thanks for the link- good value, although delivery charges aren't clear.
A mattock (http://www.hand-tools-manufacturers.com/mattocks) or chillington hoe (http://www.chillingtontoolsonline.co.uk/digging-hoes-and-handles-c1) will break virgin ground as would a decent all metal heavy duty trenching fork (http://www.bulldoghandtools.co.uk/bul5719043050-bulldog-trenching-fork-heavy-duty-myd.html). A spade probably wouldn't be much use until the ground is loosened up a bit.
couldn't you get Farmer Giles to skim over the surface to break up the turf for you to clear first?
Quote from: caroline7758 on April 03, 2010, 15:19:03
That's http://www.cotswoldseeds.com/green_manures.html (http://www.cotswoldseeds.com/green_manures.html) ;)
Thanks for the link- good value, although delivery charges aren't clear.
Under £50 its £8 for delivery, over £50 is free.
http://www.cotswoldseeds.com/online_ordering.html (http://www.cotswoldseeds.com/online_ordering.html)
Nickys Nursery has big packs of green manure and over £20 is free shipping. You can also get big packs from Kings Seeds, even bigger from their commercial catalogue.
Quote from: Hector on April 03, 2010, 14:44:54
Just broke a d**n good handle trying to turn over one spit! It's going to be a plough job then rotovate... as it is compacted/grass layer underneath the green bit. That was incredible :(
We managed to break / bend a couple of forks and spades when digging our plot in the 1st year - hard work (and breaking stuff is Very frustrating!)
Once its ploughed I'd look for ways of covering ground that you are not using straight away. pretty much anything can be used as long as it's weighed down - newspaper, cardboard, weed suppressant. And you can always create planting holes through all those ;)
Happy non-digging! But lucky you on your new plot ;D
Quote from: Bugloss2009 on April 03, 2010, 15:58:28
couldn't you get Farmer Giles to skim over the surface to break up the turf for you to clear first?
That's a darn good idea! Thanks folks...back out into greenhouse to finish sowing...then in for tea and look at the websites you have given. Again, much appreciated
That's a lovely neighbour you have Hector.
It's possible that one of the trolls in your local planning department might be sniffy because turning a field into a domestic garden is a change of use, although using land for agriculture (which in this case also includes allotments) is never a change of use so I don't see you have any need to be bothered.
If its in a farmers field then fence it off and get a couple of weaners (baby pigs) they will clear the soil for you and add manure plus in 22 weeks you can take them to slaughter and get a full feeezer. ;D
Could you borrow some chickens, after seeing what our four have done in 3 weeks it's another option. OH is threatening to go in at night & level it off for them ;D.
If it were me there would be no question I would have it ploughed then rotovate and then cover half or whatever with weed control fabric(http://www.groundforcegardening.com/80290/info.php?p=3),you won't have to lift when you get around to using the land just cut a cross in it and plant straight through
A friend's allotments is that, a housing block that was never used and a local farmer ploughed it over for him. I used it with him for a season. It's lovely soil and we never would have worked it if the farmer hadn't broken up the soil for us. Use it for crops that take up space, you can do loads of spuds and beans and squash. We gerw everything, he even did melons and he got, and still gets a terrific harvest. It beats digging by bloody hand!
plough then rotovate to break it up even more
then do what you need to do
even if you have to cover a large area with black plastic till you get time to get ontop of it