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This eyesore is my neighbours' fence  - it has been like this since October 2009.


Can anyone tell me, please - do they have any obligation to repair or replace it or do I just have to put up with it?

Thank you.

I know it's a silly question, but do they know it's their fence?
Personally I would just get some new fences and fill in the gaps.

When you put fences up, the good side faces your neighbour, can't see the other side, but form what I can see I think it is your fence.

There is usually no obligation to repair it although in some instances there may be a covenant which does oblige them to do so.
If you are certain it is the neighbours fence the only options are to persuade them to repair it, offer to repair it at your own expense, or erect your own fence or hedge on your property as close to the boundary as possible.
If it was a rented property it may be worth talking to their landlord.

The only way you can really tell whos fence it is is for you to look in your deeds.

Personally id fix it as its only 2 fence panels at a tenner each so why worry, life is too short and lucky you if thats all you have to worry about.

With a lick of paint and 2 new panels this fence will look a treat.

http://popular.ebay.co.uk/home-garden/fence-panels.htm

Quote from: Ishard on March 01, 2010, 12:08:31
With a lick of paint and 2 new panels this fence will look a treat.

Strictly speaking you would have to get the neighbours permission to paint your side of his fence & to repair it come to that.

This site explains the law surrounding common problems with boundary fences.
http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/mainneighbours.htm#fence
This site goes into much more detail & has a forum where you can get help on specific issues.
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/index.shtml

I'm pretty sure it isn't my fence; certainly I have had erected - (and have maintained) -  good fencing at the bottom and on the left-hand side of my garden. Everyone locally seems to be responsible for their left-hand side fencing. Also my neighbour has spoken about getting it sorted out - he just hasn't bothered to do anything!

Ishard! The fence is totally rotten - swaying across my path and falling to bits - there is not one sound panel or post from the first gap right to the bottom of the garden. 'A lick of paint' certainly isn't going to hold it together! The two missing panels finished up in my garden - (one in my pond!) - and I just don't want that to happen again next time we have a bit of a blow.

I would certainly pick any stray pieces up and put them in his garden.  The weather has been bad for working outside so maybe he will repair it at Easter.  I would ask him again about when he is going to repair it. 

We spent 7 years trying to get a neighbour to repair their falling down/leaning onto our property fence with no joy.  In the end we moved. ;)

Get on to the local council maybe? hopefully they will send him a letter or something.. ???

If it bothers you that much then offer to help, or erect your own fence or hedge on your property as close to the boundary as possible.

I replaced our dividing fence and put up six foot panels because our neighbour is a nosy cow, I creosote every year but they can't be bothered to do the same on their side, I do feel sorry for you in having a lazy sod next door, :)

Borrow a dog from someone and let it run around in your back garden!
My next door neighbour has left his fence unrepaired now for over a year. We have repaired our entire fence on the other side of the property now and the cost was more than £10 per panel, the hole allowed a burgler through.

I'm sure I heard that the left fence is your fence? so that would be your neighbours fence (i'm sure thats correct!)

Most people speak to their neighbours and can get to a joint agreement about fences but there are those who do not speak to their neighbours, just complain about them.

In the deeds of the vast majority of properties built after 1950 the area at the back of the property should be maintained by the house holder who looks to the right.

However it needs to be researched in the deeds to examine exactly what is said.

What I can tell you is that the legal cost of any dispute will far exceed the cost of errecting a decent fence.

So. First you ask your neighbour if they will halve the cost of errecting a visually desireable fence, then get it costed. Agree with the fence errector that you will pay half and your neighbour will pay them half. Or some other agreement which is mutually suitable.

Otherwise, you pay for the whole lot to be done to your specifications and moan on to every one that you had to pay for it.

Meaning that it is almost certainly cheaper to put up your own fence an inch or so into your side of the boundry line, to your specifications. Than engage in a legal dispute.

I have no idea if your neighbour has the finacial resources to pay nor if they care. You seem to care so just replace the fence and enjoy your back garden and keep on moaning.

Not what you want to hear perhaps, just sound common sense.

Thanks for all your comments - both helpful and otherwise! To respond to the 'stop moaning and put it right yourself' replies I would just like to say that I'm a disabled OAP and am neither physically nor financially able to do the necessary work - even if it was my fence.

The neighbours concerned are a very affluent, middle aged couple who just aren't interested in gardens - (their own or anyone else's!) - they have a gardener!

I've lived here almost 39 years - (and have never had a cross word with any of my neighbours!) - and moving is not something I would even consider.

I'm not by nature a moaner and won't be making a fuss about this but I bet, this year, the neighbours in question will miss the freshly-picked strawberries, raspberries, tomatoes, runners, etc. that I normally hand over that fence!!!!

I am sure, now spring is coming, I am sure if you express how concerned you are about the fence, then they should get it sorted.

Or another idea, get a quote from a local builder, and give the quote to your neighbour, so all they have to do is ring the builder up to arrange a time and to pay the guy when done.

AW, good luck.

P.S.
I was going to comment that their lawn looks well tended, but as you say, they have a gardener, have they even been in the garden since the panels blew down?

England Housing Neighbour disputes Housing - In EnglandNeighbour disputesThis information applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland

What is in this item
Common neighbour disputes
How to deal with a neighbour dispute
Abusive neighbour disputes and discrimination

What is in this item
It is not possible to provide a standard set of guidelines for dealing with every neighbour problem. This is because the problems are so varied and the solution to any particular dispute will depend on the individual circumstances of the case.

This information is divided into two parts:-
common neighbour disputes (see under heading Common neighbour disputes). This describes some common disputes and indicates which of the alternative courses of action would be most suitable in each case
how to deal with a neighbour dispute (see under heading How to deal with a neighbour dispute). This outlines the range of actions that may need to be taken to resolve a neighbour dispute.

Common neighbour disputes
Access to a neighbour's land for repairs
If you want to carry out repairs to property or land you may need to have access to your neighbouring property or land in order to carry out these repairs.

There may be a right of entry specifically for the purposes of inspection or repair in the property's legal documents. If there is no such right, or no agreement can be reached, the law allows you as the person wishing to carry out repairs to apply to the county court for an access order allowing you to enter your neighbour's land to carry out the repairs. There is a fee for the application.

If you wish to apply for an access order you should consult an experienced adviser, for example, a solicitor or a Citizens Advice Bureau. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by email, click on nearest CAB.

Amenities which are shared
Who is responsible
There may be amenities shared between two or more properties, for example, drains and pipes, shared drives or the roof of a block of flats. Responsibility for maintaining them and rights to use them, for example, putting up an aerial on a shared chimney, are usually outlined in the property's legal documents.

The legal documents may give you as a property owner rights over your neighbour's property. Sometimes they are not included in the legal documents but have arisen out of long, continuous and unchallenged use (usually 20 years). A right to use, for example, a pipe through a neighbour's property implies a right to go on that neighbour's property to undertake repairs, although any damage incurred to that property must be made good. If access is refused, an application can be made to a county court for an access order - see above.

Repairs
Where there is a shared amenity which is in need of repair the first step is to find out who is responsible for repairs. However, the legal documents may not always provide clear evidence and, in this case, it is probably best to settle in advance that the costs will be shared between owners.

The next stage will probably be to get a surveyor or architect to inspect and report on the part of the property requiring repairs. Estimates will have to be sought and finally a contract made with builders. It is essential that at each stage when a cost is incurred the household initiating the repairs has the consent of the other parties responsible.

If some or all of the property involved is rented, the landlord may be liable for repairs.

For information on the landlord's obligations to carry out repairs, see Common problems with tenancies.

For information on how to get a landlord to carry out repairs, see Disrepair in rented accommodation.

Boundaries, fences and walls
Establishing the boundaries and ownership
If a dispute arises between neighbours about the boundary between their properties, it will be necessary to establish who owns the disputed land. The primary evidence will be contained in the legal documents. Clear evidence of this kind is normally conclusive.

However, the boundaries between properties can differ from those described in the title documents or lease in certain circumstances. The most common are where they have been changed by agreement or by encroachment (occupation without permission).

For more information about boundary disputes, see the website of RICS at: www.rics.org. RICS also operates a boundary disputes helpline. They can put you in touch with a chartered surveyor who can give you 30 minutes free advice. The helpline number is: 0870 333 1600.

If you think that the boundaries are not defined in the title document or lease, or that the boundaries have been changed by agreement or encroachment, you will probably need to get legal advice from a solicitor.

For more information about using a solicitor, see Using a solicitor.

However, you may also wish to try mediation first as a way of resolving your dispute with your neighbour (see under heading, How to deal with a neighbour dispute).

Duty to erect a barrier
Generally, as a property owner you do not have to erect and maintain any type of barrier, for example, a fence, wall, trellis or railing, around your property. Some of the exceptions include where:-

there is a clause in the title documents or lease
the property is next to a street and may cause danger
the land is used for dangerous purposes, for example, storing chemicals
a barrier is necessary to prevent animals, other than domestic pets, from straying.
Who can use or repair a barrier
In order to decide who can use and repair a barrier, it is first necessary to establish who owns it. The rules for working out ownership are the same as for other boundaries. In other words, the legal documents may specify who owns the fence, or you may have evidence that it belongs to you.

If the barrier belongs to one owner, they can use it as they wish, without the neighbour's consent, providing it is safe. The neighbour has no rights over the barrier. For example, they could not use it to support trailing plants without the owner's permission. If a fence is jointly owned, each neighbour can use it for support, provided neither makes it unsafe. Any repairs should be financed jointly.

As a property owner you do not have to repair your barrier unless the title documents or lease contains such obligations. However, if the barrier causes damage or injury, your neighbour could take you to court for compensation.

If as a property owner you have a barrier next to the street, this should be kept in good repair to prevent it becoming a nuisance or danger to people using the street. If a passer-by is injured by the barrier, for example, if it has barbed wire, or falls down on someone in the street, that person can take you to court for compensation."

Perhaps you could ask them to repair the fence saying that it could be dangerous
Perhaps you could suggest you go halves on the cost.
You could of course take them to civil court which would cost you way more than the price of a new fence but in their defence all they have to quote is the above law.
Perhaps you could ask your family to help.

Or you may just end up looking at that broken fence forever

PS If you knew the fence was so rotten that it was likely to fall over why didnt you take steps to prevent it falling into your pond?[/font]

 As Grandma says in her earlier post Ishard as a disabled OAP she can't
I'm intrigued to know how (short of breaking it into small pieces and burning them) one is meant to "prevent it falling in the pond" perhaps you should stand and hold all the loose panels in a gale?

We had a similar problem and it only went away when they moved out.. they replaced the whole thing before putting it on the market :-X

Hello Grandma, bit of a bu**er, isn't it?

So,  I'm thinking that, as they've already said that they'll "sort it" you need to go along with the assumption that it is, indeed, their fence (as you and your other neighbours all take responsibility of your left-side fences). So, what would I do, given that you're on reasonable terms with them generally? Reckon I'd drop them a note saying that now all the dreadful winter snow seems to be over, when it was impossible to do anything, and Spring is on its way (blah di blah).....you've done some research for them and can suggest the following list of fence peeps for them to contact (give 3 names, addys, phone no.s + a list of their prices). Suggest that if they didn't want the fence peeps themselves to come to erect new fencing, perhaps their gardener might be capable of doing the work or know someone who will, cash-in-hand - that would be cheaper for them. So start phoning around today!

Keep the emphasis on the fact that it's their fance and write in a friendly, helpful manner, no matter what you actually think. Nothing to be gained out of taking any other stance, I think.

Wouldn't go amiss if you said that you'll be using that path I see a lot,  now, with planting etc. and you've worried it might fall on you or your tender plants; it seems very dangerous and you're concerned...  And keep a copy, natch, of your note.

Sound a plan?

All the v. best, Lishka

I am sorry you are having this stress Grandma, maybe once the better weather comes and they want to go out in the garden they will fix it.  The panel nearest the camera looks as though it just slots into the concrete posts, we had those years ago and they blew out regularly but could just be popped back in or were easy to replace, I am not sure the one further down has concrete posts on both sides so will be more difficult.

And looking at the play equipment they have youngsters so hopefully need to keep them inside their garden?  I do hope you get it resolved soon.

T.

Saddad!  ;) :-* :)

Thanks, Tulipa! Yes, the nearest post is concrete and, had the panel that blew out been sound, putting it back would have been easy. The rest of the posts, however, are wooden ones and are rotten at the bottoms (as are the panels!)

Yes,  they have a lovely little seven-year old and the fact that, through my garden, she would have access to the road worries me - as does the pond.........

As you say, maybe the better weather will see some action. I wouldn't say I was exactly 'stressed' but I do spend a lot of time pottering about outside - (and just sitting by the pond!) -  and I'm just fed up with looking at it.

Thanks, Hyacinth, I've already done some of the things you've suggested. Back in October, when the neighbour said he was going to get the fence replaced, I gave him the business cards of two gardener friends - (always eager for fencing work in winter before 'proper' gardening starts) - but he hasn't approached either for an estimate. 

I will tell him that, when it's breezy, walking down my path is a bit hazardous with the fence swaying about - but I doubt that the mention of 'tender plants' would have any effect. He doesn't 'do' plants!

Like I said, I'm not an habitual moaner and just want a quiet life - so I'll see how things go now spring is almost here.

Thanks to all for your help.

(As an interesting aside, last year their little girl came round to sit with me and watch my tadpoles. After a while I said I had to get on and do some weeding. "What's weeding?" she asked. Says it all, really.)  :) ;)

Two options spring to mind...

1) Ask them if they know anything about dogs as your trying to decide between a Rottweiler and an Alsatian.

2) Enlist the help of a largish friend to start sunbathing in nothing more than a thong in your garden.

Maybe, just maybe they are the kind of people that get upset if they feel they are being told to do something, their pride may stop them doing the fence all the time they think they are being told to do it.  Once they think its their own idea then they may be more likely to get it sorted? (Am not saying that its right but it happens..)

Saddad  As Grandma says in her earlier post Ishard as a disabled OAP she can't
I'm intrigued to know how (short of breaking it into small pieces and burning them) one is meant to "prevent it falling in the pond" perhaps you should stand and hold all the loose panels in a gale?


Grandma cant what Saddad? In every area there are social services that would arrange for people to come in and help Grandma, especially as she is disabled. If she has under £23000.00 savings/assets the help is free, if not then Grandma should pay for help as we all do.

The fence panel could have been propped up or even taken down before it blew down. Again she could have got help from ss or perhaps her family.

I hope your neighbour takes down the rest of the fence Grandma and errects one that you like but there is no legal requirement for them to do so.

As has been suggested by more than me perhaps you should offer to either pay for half the fence, outright buy another or learn to live with it.

It all starts with talking nicely to your neighbour because you cant force them to do anything.

Looking at the photo in the first post in could not be more easier to repair, all you have to do is slide a fence panel down between the concrete posts which have a recess for the post to fit in, :)

Thank you Mr Smith my point exactly  ;) :-* :)

Ok how about another perspective.  Maybe whilst they have the funds they might not have the time to deal with the fence.  How about asking if they are having difficulties arranging a time for someone to come around and do the fence.  Perhaps suggest that you would not mind "looking" after the fence erectors when they come around to do the job.

I know my problem would be the time required rather than the cost.

Now my suggestion might not be right but it might open the conversation to getting the work done.

This way you make an offer that they might need and they see you want the fence fixed without you coming out and saying so.

Good luck I know what it is like from both sides and they may be feeling the same way as you.

Bill

That assumes the neighbour actually wants a wood panel fence, or any fence at all.

Its his property and he is under no legal obligation to provide one, except in certain circumstances.

He may want to replace it with Leylandii, or any other plant, or a plane wire fence or even a metal security fence.

Its his choice.

Its also not good to assume he is wealthy enough to pay for it all, unless you have access to his bank details. I have a fair income, but its all allocated and have very little disposable income, especially this last year. I couldn't afford to replace a fence just cause the neighbour wants one.

I'm beginning to wish I hadn't started this thread!

I was only wondering how much longer long I was going to have to look at the damage and I seem to have opened a very large can of worms!  :o

To set the record straight..............

Some of you seem to be under the - (very mistaken!) - impression that:-

a) my neighbours and I are not on friendly terms.
b) we haven't talked about the fence.
c) they don't want a fence.
d) they can't afford to have the necessary work done.
d) they expect me to do the necessary work.

All of the above are absolute rubbish.

I think Chrispy may have hit the nail on the head - they probably haven''t been in the garden since October! I'm out there a lot and haven't seen them outside for months. They're professional people, at work all day, and the only times I've seen them throughout the winter is when they pop round to collect the parcels I've taken in for them!

I'm looking forward to their smart new fence - (all concrete posts and kickboards, I'm told! :)) -  and, as I said earlier, I expect something will be done now the weather is improving. I'll post a pic when I have a pleasanter view from my much-loved garden!  :)

Quote from: Grandma on March 04, 2010, 08:41:03

I'm looking forward to their smart new fence - (all concrete posts and kickboards, I'm told! :)) -  and, as I said earlier, I expect something will be done now the weather is improving. I'll post a pic when I have a pleasanter view from my much-loved garden!  :)

Thats good news  ;D

Quote from: Grandma on March 04, 2010, 08:41:03
I'll post a pic when I have a pleasanter view from my much-loved garden!  :)

Ooo yes do! And then you can start thinking about what plants you would like to grow along it - a nice clematis maybe. Basically what I'm saying is I can envsiage a few trips to garden centres  ;D  ;D  ;D

Do the descent thing repair the fence.......good on yer.... ;)

LOL when reading other people's responses to this dilemma, it makes me think I must be quite unreasonable because I would expect my neighbour to fix a broken/missing fence which left my garden 'open' to them.  Grandma has pointed out that her neighbours are more than capable of fixing/replacing it (but appear not to want to do so) She thinks they are financially ok to do so and even have a gardener of their own! Not only this but she's also given them business cards to try and help them along.  Naturally there might be very good reasons as to why it hasn't been done and she's accepting that but for me ... I've had all sorts of silly ideas running through my head as to what I'd do if it were me in this situation, LOL!  And with all due respect, I'm sure that those of you saying the neighbour isn't obliged to do anything so shut up or put up - I don't think that would be your response should you ever be put in the same situation?  :-X :)

Edit:  Grandma, if I lived nearer, I'd come erect fence panels up for you as near to the borderline as possible to solve this problem!