did you see the programme last night (cannot remember its correct name) i ended up screaming at the telly is was so ashamed of some of the british people on there. a 25 year old on benefits of £60 per week said he wanted to work, spent all day playing computer games and facebook, was given the opportunity to work and did not turn up, i think his benefits should be cut, i think that anyone who has the opportunity to work and does not should have their benefits cut or at least reduced, i was ahamed that nearly 50% of the british people on this programme came out with lame excuses not to turn up for work on the first day, some did not even turn up for work on time on the first day, and some treated work like a school playground, are we really that lazy or has the programme gone out to find the most feckless and wasteful people in the country, is this what we have become a nation of lazy wingers.
I know that we are not all like this, but i think that our benefits system must change to encourage people to get back to work and not sit there and expect to have an easy job at an inflated wage, we are in a recession and we cannot afford a nation of scroungers, i am sorry i am ranting, but i am so shocked at what i witnessed last night. >:(
>:(
I watched it and was as angry as you. It just confirmed lots of stereotypes and I don't think it added anything to the debate.
I could weep.
I was fuming as an ex fraud officer. I think that they should be paid a visit and benefits reduced.
Personally I think that a year on benefits is sufficient before you have your benefits cut and be made to do unpaid work to benefit the country.
Dont think that the layabouts would be as keen as not to get off their backside and do a hard days graft then.
Didn't see the program but I know the problem - it really irks me!
I've spent quite a bit of time in Argentina recently - it's a great country. Interestingly, they don't have much of a benefits system over there so, if you want ANY money, you have to earn it! People there do all sorts of crappy jobs that the British wouldn't dream of doing. They also have a very strong belief that you should only have children if you can bring them up well and have the financial means to do so. Few people we met had more than one child.
It is the way to go I think! Good for the planet too - lots of the unpalatable jobs revolved around litter collecting / recycling - less people can only be a good thing too!
Our benefits system is way too soft, thats why so many people from other countries want to come here. That and the NHS.
Thing is we havent enough money here to cover our own.
I agree if you havent got enough money coming in to support your kids dont have any more!
My Husband has just been made redundant but if he doesnt get a job soon then I will go back to work on temp contracts to eek out his redundancy money so that we dont put pressure on the state. It only takes one of us to look after the kids and it doesnt have to be me, and I was a very capable secretary before I had the boys
I have to say that my husband has no intention, despite getting a redundancy package, of sitting on his backside and doing nothing. If nothing else the lottie needs digging to provide food for us for the coming year.
Roll on the good weather.
The benefits system of this country is totally ridiculous.
Best example is income support.
If you end up on income support, you get so much basic money plus you get your mortgage/rent, council tax paid, and other bonus things like free prescriptions.
You can do a little part time work, and earn up to £20 a week without affecting your benefits, OK, no problem there.
You can work a bit more, earn more than £20, but for each £1 you earn, you lose £1 from your benefits, so why bother.
The real problem is when you get a job that is just more than your income support, your income support goes to zero, no problem, you are earning that, but then you have to start paying your rent, council tax, your prescriptions, which means you can't afford to work :P
OK, there are tax credits, and other benefits to help you if you are in a low paid job, but they are complicated, and depending on your circumstances, can be of little use.
I agree that the benefits system makes it less likely that the unemployed will commit to seasonal work. And I've never met an Eastern European agricultural worker who didn't seem highly-motivated, friendly and knowledgeable, with a real respect for his/her work.
I think it's sad that the poorest in the country often have little understanding of the value of fruit and vegetables (not always, I know - some have allotments!). We've seen a food revolution in recent years, but how long before that translates to people taking pride in the hard physical effort of producing food? It's a pity there isn't a burgeoning market in dreaming up excuses, otherwise we'd lead the world!
I watched the programme and I wondered whether anybody else noticed that one of the older unemployed guys became more fatherly and responsible-sounding when talking to the younger one who had not turned up for work. Could this be the key to getting the long-term unemployed to take responsibility - by setting a good example to the next generation?
What struck me was how quickly people go into "rage" mode.
I've just watched it.I wasn't surprised.
Why don't they bother ?Because they don't have to !
Society has spent years telling people they don't have to work, that those who will work will feed and clothe THEIR children.
They were moaning about migrant workers but THEY are paying taxes which are funding their unemployment benefit >:(
I don't think we should be importing labour but I wholeheartedly respect folk leaving their own country and coming here to work,didn't many of our building workers do the same in Germany years ago.
I think that people should be expected to work for benefits. It is totally wrong that people on benefits get so many fringe benefits. Cold Weather payments, in some areas transport, college fees. Dental charges.
Someone has suggested that carers should be entitled to a measly week off every year, and yet we have all these people sitting down doing nothing having a week off every week.
Quote from: InfraDig on February 25, 2010, 15:59:05
What struck me was how quickly people go into "rage" mode.
Yeah, I noticed that too, esp the waiter chap in the Indian restaurant.
Mebbe they often had things 'handed' to them and are not familiar with making an effort and don't realise that life isn't fair.
I imagine the programme makers chose people to accentuate the point and picked and chose the encounters.
those artichoke pickers were a miserable incompetent lot, if I may say so...
And can afford cigarettes too!
These sort of topics get on my nerves.
Some programme maker searches hard for the worst example of people on benefits
and trys to shock you .
Many people on benefits work hard at trying to find jobs and don't need all the patronising remarks that have been made on here >:(
How long is it since you had to look for a job??
Den I've just been laid in the bath thinking about my earlier post and I think there are two sides to most things.Sadly while you're absolutely right, I think we've bred a whole group in society who think they should get everything for nothing.
Have you ever watched Jeremy Kyle ?
I've got two branches of family one side works hard ,obeys the law ,parents well and the other side.................................... :o
I thought the English people in the programme just about summed up the state of the UK today when it comes to working for a living, to easy staying in doors with your playstation collecting your handout, I turned sixty two years ago having worked away from home for the past forty years I thought I would now have it easy for a change so I just packed to the surprise of my boss, I now work a thirtyseven hour week doing a job I enjoy and did not struggle to find work, and a word of encouragement to anyone out there who think they are past it 'Bo---cks', there are plenty of employers looking for experience people, a friend of mine who has a plumbing business had a guy knock on his door last week looking for a job, he was a a time served plumber and because of his age served a proper apprenticeship and was an expert in working in Lead, my mate does a lot of work on old buildings and set the guy on doing all his roof flashing work this chap was fiftyfive get out there and start looking :)
"I think that people should be expected to work for benefits. It is totally wrong that people on benefits get so many fringe benefits. " "Our benefits system is way too soft" Quotes
I wish... Having had to quit work last April (after 25years) I was put on ESA (the old incapacity... which is ludicrous in itself, but as I was (and still am) signed off by my GP that's where they put me. Not wishing to get something (£63:40pw) for nothing I took on training for which I get a bursary (£5,000 spread over the year) but work 20 hrs a week for £50pw x32 weeks... I am not paid for this "work" as the National Minimum Wage is @£6 ph. Now I am going to be off ESA (as the government want to reduce incapacity)... but no longer eligible for Jobseekers (£63:40pw) as I am not "available" for work... (on a government sponsored training course) as I am married and my wife has a professional job and our children are grown up we are not entitled to any other benefits eg tax credits.. so I will have to carry on with the course with no income, or give it up (which I am not prepared to do...)
It makes "Catch 22" seem quite straightforward...
:-X
They used to have a scheme in the 80's (I think). I was on it, I got my benefit money but I worked for it....full time. It was a brilliant scheme, I have no idea why it was stopped to be honest.
I did my training at Harlow Carr Gardens with this benefit thingy. Harlow Carr got extra labour, I felt I was doing something worthwhile and took pride in not sitting on me backside getting handouts.
Sigh.........where did it all go wrong? ???
Saddad, I think you sum up the situation very well - sorry to hear about your problems.
I thought the most interesting thing about the programme was noticing that attitude to work seemed to be an age thing - the older ones had other issues with the migrant workers, but got on with the job and at the end of the three days was prepared to admit that their initial prejudices were just that.
It was the younger ones that most shocked me (but not surprised) The waiter lad really did want to succeed but just had no experience of that environment and writing the order quickly exposed his lack of education but he did come back for a second go and asked for help but just gave up when it all got too much.
A big cheer to Ali the restaurant owner, who was amazingly gracious and even offered waiter boy a free lunch, which he had the cheek to accept ::)
Re the asparagus farm - I'm not sure that I could work at that pace all day and feel well rewarded with an average of £40 p.d. and keep coming back day after day. The farmer is right, people on benefits cannot easily come off benefits for seasonal work and then pick up benefits when the work ends.
Quote from: star on February 25, 2010, 21:44:32
They used to have a scheme in the 80's (I think). I was on it, I got my benefit money but I worked for it....full time. It was a brilliant scheme, I have no idea why it was stopped to be honest.
I did my training at Harlow Carr Gardens with this benefit thingy. Harlow Carr got extra labour, I felt I was doing something worthwhile and took pride in not sitting on me backside getting handouts.
Sigh.........where did it all go wrong? ???
Star your thinking of Youth trainig scheme (YTS) I think they gave up on that.
I can rememebr being unemployed in the 80's and they were desperate to get me on that ahead of me actually being able to even look for a proper job. Fortunately I worked my socks off trying to get a proper job and got seasonal work in a shop for Xmas which gave me experience enough to move on to another proper job when that finisshed, so escaped YTS.
YTS wasn't benefits. It was a training scheme - part work and part training/exams at college
I also watched it with my husband and I have to say, given the personalities of some that were chosen, it really was no surprise that they didn't turn up. I like to think that for every lazy scrote who won't get out of bed for anything less than the prime minister's job, there's also a hard working person trying very hard to do the opposite.
As for the YTS, I was on one of those and it was great! I did my on the job training at the BP head office and gained a lot of experience in my line of work and on the college days I gained three RSA qualifications so it was a winner for me and unlike many people today, that £25 per week did me just fine!
Just watched this and it made depressing viewing. I did, however, find myself wondering how well any of us would have got on in those situations? ( I remember working in the milk bar in Glasgow as a student getting screamed at by the chef for taking too long to wash and prepare salad. Mind you none of my salads ever got sent back by the customers. ;) I did the job thoroughly enough but hadn't yet twigged how fast you need to turn things round.)
I reckon it takes more than a couple of days to learn a job particularly the waiting/ restaurant job. I felt quite sorry for the young lad and his frustration at his inability to cope. But what restaurant manager in their right mind puts a rookie on alone on his first day? And yes of course he would need to learn all the dishes and their names before being able to take orders. It's not exactly pie and chips and very often it's quite hard to know by looking which Indian dish is which. That's why carryouts come labelled. Since the return of the school uniform I have had to show loads of kids at secondary school how to tie their ties. Easy when you know how.
As to the asparagus pickers there are probably issues of fitness involved and none of them looked particularly fit. The young laddie with the ADHD looked to me like he'd never done a day's work in his life and was spoilt rotten by his mum.
The joiner needs a course in anger management but otherwise seemed OK. Ditto the potato pickers once the skinny one got Charlie off his back and stopped slagging his co-workers. Sad that there were no jobs for them at the end.
The really depressing thing was the ones who didn't even turn up or turned up and didn't come back. perhaps an element of fear of failure? Overwhelmed. But yes given the availability of a suitable job and the fitness of the individual for the job I'm not sure that benefits should be paid.
I'm not at all a military type person but I do sometimes wonder if scrapping military service was a mistake? 18 months to 2 years in the army makes sure that young folk can deal with the routines of normal living and working. I'm not suggesting they should all be gun carrying combatants. Other countries have "evolved" their military service to social service but in terms of work ethic it certainly helps.
Even in the 1960s when there was full employment there were always a few who were unemployable. Never completed a week at a job. My father was a personnel officer and they simply could not get staff. I recall him saying the manager of the Labour Exchange stating that those on their books were just not worth sending out as they never turned up.
I know jobs at present are hard to find and a lot of people are taking a huge wage cut just to be working but there is an underclass, possibly it is to do with some mental health issue. After all it can not be possible to exist on £60 a week benifits unless another family member is subsidising what is called the 'job seeker'.
It is a mistake to think that only the UK has them. Having friends in countries where there is no support, I know that they have work shy people who seem to 'get by'. Would our petty crime rate rise if we withdrew our benefits system and would it cost more in policing?
Government training schemes are costly too, they have to pay for administration and supervision. No one seems to know the answer to the problem.
Some employers are taking the p*ss with wages and work conditions. I would have liked to see that fat posh asparagus farm owner do a days picking - it looked like backbreaking work that nobody could do for long without risking their health.
Our jobs page in the paper consists of about 4 pages now, and even if everyone on benefits woke up tomorrow vowing to get a job and stick at it, there arent enough to go round. Of course some people are lazy but its rubbish to say that the benefit system is too soft - I may be made redundant later in the year and JSA would not even pay my bills.
I have a brother who is coming up to retirement. His last employment was a milk monitor at school. He worked the system all of his life. Got housed, brought up several families, runs a car, big telly, pays nothing towards medical etc. You know the sort. He still rants and raves over his money being paid in late and reckons the world owes him a living.
Needless to say, he gets short shrift off of me when he starts on 'youve got this and youve got that' . I just tell him to get a job then.
Glad to read that people had positive experiences after doing YTS.
saddad, you must be pretty frustrated at the moment and I can see from your various posts that you're an experienced and resourceful person. I hope you've got allotmenteering on your CV! :)
It is very frustrating when people cannot get jobs. But there are a great number of things in society that are simply not being done.
People long term in hospital need visitors, and help with feeding etc. Carers at home need breaks, they need housework done while they are caring. Old people need help to get out and about. There are huge numbers of lonely old people There is litter all over the place. Local authorities have cut down on flowers in towns becuase of the cost of watering them.
There are huge numbers of things that need to be done in society which are not being done, and yet we are then spending huge amounts of money paying people to do nothing.
Having a handicapped daughter there were years when life was very difficult and for which I received a tiny aount in carers allowance.
I also have a husband who has had a stroke and he has had to relearn every noun. The name of every object, person or place had gone. And it takes him ages to relearn each one. We have currently managed to organise something for three days each week, but he really needs someone to come in and just take to him and couple of days a week. Yet we pay millions of people to do nothing instead.
I do not wish in any way to be patronising. My husband was make redundant I know the upset it causes. But I just find it totally frustrating to see people doing nothing, knowing there are other people out there at their wits ends.
Yikes if I was disabled or in hospital I wouldnt want to rely on a disgruntled teenager with ADHD to look after me :o
In principle getting the long term unemployed doing community work is a good thing, but I dont think it should be forced on them. Otherwise vulnerable people are going to suffer even more - there is enough elderly abuse as it is.
It is a horrible thought that some one who may or may not turn up would be given a job as a carer no matter how small the job.
It is vocational work which not every one can handle, even if it is thrust upon them with a family member there are a lot who can not cope at all with any sort of handicap.
Vulnerable people need protecting from potential abuse and bullying not exposure to it.
Quote from: PurpleHeather on February 26, 2010, 12:48:12
It is a horrible thought that some one who may or may not turn up would be given a job as a carer no matter how small the job.
Don't worry it will never happen. Most of these shirkers (I don't mean temporary or ill) are living on the edge of the law. A police check which is compulsory would nip that idea in the bud. I am not generalising, anybody the dole sent to me against their will when I was foreman were untrustworthy and did not hide the fact, (stops them being offered work). Somebody asking on the off chance of a job usually got given a position if there was one free.
Some of our council gardening work involved the upkeep of open plan gardens on council estates. We had to cut layabouts front gardens because they would not do it themselves. Nine times out of ten when the front was looked after, the bloke was usually gainfully employed. But I would have thought 80% were just idle and working the system with a bit of black market trading on the side. We had to be on out toes, as one seconds distraction and your tools were gone.
How often do we complain about the state of our streets with litter and dog nuts everywhere(plus cat nuts in our gardens), if you complain to anyone at the council they do not have the man power to come and clean up the streets on our neighbourhoods, so get the lazy turds out of their pits and do something for society, OOOooooppp,s sorry can't do that it's Health&Safety don't have the NVQ,
Quote from: Mr Smith on February 26, 2010, 18:05:36
How often do we complain about the state of our streets with litter and dog nuts everywhere(plus cat nuts in our gardens), if you complain to anyone at the council they do not have the man power to come and clean up the streets on our neighbourhoods, so get the lazy turds out of their pits and do something for society, OOOooooppp,s sorry can't do that it's Health&Safety don't have the NVQ,
wouldn't it be easier to prosecute the *fatherless children* who let their dogs foul everywhere? (you know, the ones who work and can afford to own and feed a dog, but don't have the time to clear up the animals nuts?)
Quote from: tonybloke on February 27, 2010, 09:44:10
Quote from: Mr Smith on February 26, 2010, 18:05:36
How often do we complain about the state of our streets with litter and dog nuts everywhere(plus cat nuts in our gardens), if you complain to anyone at the council they do not have the man power to come and clean up the streets on our neighbourhoods, so get the lazy turds out of their pits and do something for society, OOOooooppp,s sorry can't do that it's Health&Safety don't have the NVQ,
wouldn't it be easier to prosecute the *fatherless children* who let their dogs foul everywhere? (you know, the ones who work and can afford to own and feed a dog, but don't have the time to clear up the animals nuts?)
The people a couple of doors down from me have a german shepard which is not allowed to pee in their garden never mind have a nuts instead they take it to the river bank (50 yards away) & it does it's business under the no fouling sign. The council know exactly who is responsible but can't prosecute them unless they catch them in the act.
Quote from: tonybloke on February 27, 2010, 09:44:10
Quote from: Mr Smith on February 26, 2010, 18:05:36
How often do we complain about the state of our streets with litter and dog nuts everywhere(plus cat nuts in our gardens), if you complain to anyone at the council they do not have the man power to come and clean up the streets on our neighbourhoods, so get the lazy turds out of their pits and do something for society, OOOooooppp,s sorry can't do that it's Health&Safety don't have the NVQ,
wouldn't it be easier to prosecute the *fatherless children* who let their dogs foul everywhere? (you know, the ones who work and can afford to own and feed a dog, but don't have the time to clear up the animals nuts?)
Totally agree with the great one 100%, :)
Quote from: Mr Smith on February 27, 2010, 13:47:05
Totally agree with the great one 100%, :)
Yay!! ;D ;D
Quote from: SMP1704 on February 25, 2010, 21:56:30
A big cheer to Ali the restaurant owner, who was amazingly gracious and even offered waiter boy a free lunch, which he had the cheek to accept ::)
Re the asparagus farm - I'm not sure that I could work at that pace all day and feel well rewarded with an average of £40 p.d. and keep coming back day after day. The farmer is right, people on benefits cannot easily come off benefits for seasonal work and then pick up benefits when the work ends.
yes, and yes.
Ali the owner was gracious.
I'm very tall, so bending over all day like that would be the last choice on my list of things to do, if I was stuck in a rut like that...I agree with your point though...
oh yes i watched that! It was actually based in the town next to mine :-[ and unfortunately is very typical of the people in this area!
although i'm on maternity leave and am desperatly seeking night work and cant find any to save my life! (or my house in this case!)