I have grown Musselburgh for years. No problems with them but I am now considering Winter Giant because I want thicker, fatter leeks. I am not fussed about about the height / length of leek. Which autumn and winter hardy varieties are best to produce the goods.
I grew Winter Giant and not sure they were much fatter than musselburgh. I have become convinced that it is necessary to sow them earlier to get bigger leeks.
I grew both musselburgh and winter giant this year.
I followed the instructions on the packet, which for musselburgh was sow early, Jan or Feb I think I did, but for the winter giant it was later.
The musselburgh were a bit variable in width, some thin, some fat, but most were medium.
The winter giant were of a more uniform size, which were pathetic, half the diameter of the musselburgh.
I think if I had watered the winter giant more during the dry spells they would have done better, but I think Digeroo is correct, and I am sowing all at the same time.
BTW, do click on the link at the bottom of my post to place your vote for your favorate varieties.
I am a big fan of the 'Jaune Gros de Poitiu' leek seed that I got from Thomas Etty's a few years ago.....since then I've saved my own seeds and they have germinated and come true without fail so far. They are very fat, more like pot leeks but some of mine have been huge, up to about 3-4' tall!
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/dlp133/close%20up%20veg%20or%20fruit/DebsLottie7609015.jpg)
That's the one I've been looking at in their catalogue. Sounds like one to go for!
I realise it's no good for this year's planting, but have you considered using the old 'show' technique of encouraging offsets on the flower head?
You simply let the leek bolt (don't use any leek that bolts early) and cut off all the individual flowers as they extend far enough to get some nail scissors in there.
Within a week or so tiny offsets will start to appear - some of them can grow to 2 or 3mm across before they start to separate themselves. By this time they will already have roots appearing as well as strong leaves around 50mm long.
I'd guess that any offset 2mm or more across will have more stored energy than a seed - they certainly grow quickly and given the same care they do seem to grow considerably larger than similarly treated seed.
Easier too - very few losses, no thinning, visible plants from day 1 so easier hoeing etc. etc.
You may regard this a cheating - thicker leeks simply by growing bigger leeks - but provided they are earthed up enough a bigger leek is a bigger meal.
Cheers.
Quote from: Vinlander on February 16, 2010, 18:28:09
I realise it's no good for this year's planting, but have you considered using the old 'show' technique of encouraging offsets on the flower head?
You simply let the leek bolt (don't use any leek that bolts early) and cut off all the individual flowers as they extend far enough to get some nail scissors in there.
Within a week or so tiny offsets will start to appear - some of them can grow to 2 or 3mm across before they start to separate themselves. By this time they will already have roots appearing as well as strong leaves around 50mm long.
I'd guess that any offset 2mm or more across will have more stored energy than a seed - they certainly grow quickly and given the same care they do seem to grow considerably larger than similarly treated seed.
Easier too - very few losses, no thinning, visible plants from day 1 so easier hoeing etc. etc.
You may regard this a cheating - thicker leeks simply by growing bigger leeks - but provided they are earthed up enough a bigger leek is a bigger meal.
Cheers.
What is offsets do you mean the grass or the pip
Quote from: davyw1 on February 17, 2010, 15:22:28
What is offsets do you mean the grass or the pip
I'm not sure what you mean... offsets are miniature versions of the parent plant - they look exactly like seedlings - in this case ones that have been growing for a month or so.
The ones I'm talking about grow out of the flower head - ie. about 60cm off the ground.
Hardneck garlic regularly and spontaneously produces offsets alongside the flowers on the flowerhead, but leeks need some encouragement - thats why you need to get rid of the competing flowers.
Have I answered the question? I'm not sure.
The only drawback I can see is that you can't save the things from year to year like seeds.
What you call offsets we call grass and at the root off the grass you also get what we call pips others call bulbets as in the pidture
[attachment=1]
Quote from: davyw1 on February 18, 2010, 19:57:55
What you call offsets we call grass and at the root off the grass you also get what we call pips
So you're a regular at this? for shows or just (like me) because seeds are more work for smaller leeks?
I tried growing 'Jaune Gros de Poitiu' from pips last year a well as seed just because the plants made some and I thought I might get an earlier crop. I was very disappointed with the results, the plants grown from seed grew much bigger and faster, so I won't be bothering again.... :-\
Quote from: Vinlander on February 18, 2010, 23:40:08
Quote from: davyw1 on February 18, 2010, 19:57:55
What you call offsets we call grass and at the root off the grass you also get what we call pips
So you're a regular at this? for shows or just (like me) because seeds are more work for smaller leeks?
I was just trying to sort out what different terms we use mainly but i think its much more easy to grow from seed than it is from grass/offset or pip i find these are vunrible to fusarion, you have to get a seed head at the right time then have to over winter them, then there is getting the watering right also you need heat all this is fine if you have done it from a breed of leek that is going to give you the result you want but just for ordinary pot leeks i dont think its worth the bother.
You're probably right. I have a neighbour who shows leeks. He's very successful, but it's probably not worth the bother for anything except showing. All you have to do is plant a few more to compensate for the smaller plants!
I only grow two kinds of leek,american flag and giant bulgarian.Giant bulgarian is one of the biggest leeks you can grow .They grow over a meter in length.
It may be because I grow in the SE, but I find that a bit of protection in winter is enough to keep offsets going (lots of spare room in the cold greenhouse this time of year).
I find seeds sown Jan-Feb a lot more likely to not come up without heat, and even then they give up the ghost in the same conditions - it's almost like they expect to be born into good conditions and just give up.
I could try sowing them in late Autumn - but that's a busy time and makes for 3 month's extra coddling.
Cheers.
PS. I had a lot of similar offsets from my hardneck garlic this year and some of them looked a bit dodgy so I just dumped them onto my capillary matting system to let them grow or fail. They are all growing well and the roots don't seem to penetrate the landscape fabric cover so it is fairly easy to lift them and pot them - this is the easiest system yet.
Quote from: Vinlander on February 21, 2010, 00:37:43
It may be because I grow in the SE, but I find that a bit of protection in winter is enough to keep offsets going (lots of spare room in the cold greenhouse this time of year).
I find seeds sown Jan-Feb a lot more likely to not come up without heat, and even then they give up the ghost in the same conditions - it's almost like they expect to be born into good conditions and just give up.
I could try sowing them in late Autumn - but that's a busy time and makes for 3 month's extra coddling.
Cheers.
A couple of pictures would be nice for comparison.
PS. I had a lot of similar offsets from my hardneck garlic this year and some of them looked a bit dodgy so I just dumped them onto my capillary matting system to let them grow or fail. They are all growing well and the roots don't seem to penetrate the landscape fabric cover so it is fairly easy to lift them and pot them - this is the easiest system yet.
Quote from: davyw1 on February 21, 2010, 18:48:55
A couple of pictures would be nice for comparison.
You're right, I haven't been scientific - as soon as I found I could get comparable results from the offsets or pips (maybe better, maybe my lazy half saw what it wanted to see), I stopped sowing leek seed.
All I can be certain of is that it is worth trying, and they will be identical to the parent.
I haven't been doing it long enough to find out if diseases build up but it's still worth a try when you run out of leek seed and before you buy the next packet.
Cheers.
I think for any gardener it is much easier just to throw a few seeds into a plant pot than it is to take grass/offsets as with these you have to take off every bit of leaf to the main stem which is time consuming, fine if they are going on the show bench but just for ordinary pot leek is it really worth the trouble.
I find this method for pot leeks works fine, plenty of depth for the root and can be set away at intervals for continuing crops.
[attachment=1]
Davy
Quote from: davyw1 on February 22, 2010, 07:51:43
I think for any gardener it is much easier just to throw a few seeds into a plant pot than it is to take grass/offsets as with these you have to take off every bit of leaf to the main stem which is time consuming,
Davy
Hi Davy - your method doesn't sound like mine - the offsets that can be encouraged to form on the leek's flower head actually detach themselves - or the bigger ones do if you let them.
When they do this (or you can knock them off by shaking the stem) then most of them will have 10 to 50mm of leaf and also roots between 1mm and 5mm long already, sometimes just one, sometimes three or four.
I pull the others off too but only to stop them scattering themselves when I'm not looking.
In short they look like perfect little seedlings, in all respects just like what you might prick out of a seed tray to transplant - I don't know, maybe a month or so after emergence?
Can you explain why we have such different-sounding experiences?
Cheers
Quote from: Vinlander on February 22, 2010, 15:40:48
Quote from: davyw1 on February 22, 2010, 07:51:43
I think for any gardener it is much easier just to throw a few seeds into a plant pot than it is to take grass/offsets as with these you have to take off every bit of leaf to the main stem which is time consuming,
Davy
Hi Davy - your method doesn't sound like mine - the offsets that can be encouraged to form on the leek's flower head actually detach themselves - or the bigger ones do if you let them.
When they do this (or you can knock them off by shaking the stem) then most of them will have 10 to 50mm of leaf and also roots between 1mm and 5mm long already, sometimes just one, sometimes three or four.
I pull the others off too but only to stop them scattering themselves when I'm not looking.
In short they look like perfect little seedlings, in all respects just like what you might prick out of a seed tray to transplant - I don't know, maybe a month or so after emergence?
Can you explain why we have such different-sounding experiences?
Cheers
( Can you explain why we have such different-sounding experiences?)
For a start a lot of my freinds reckon i live on the moon, deck chair on the Sea of Tranquility
I think we are talking about the same thing, the leak head in the jar, with the grass growing of it
KT, If you want to take a short drive along the A19 you can have some leeks 164s (so called cos thats what size they were 164cm if you get a couple to go to seed then you will have them every year
Davy
Quote from: davyw1 on February 22, 2010, 20:22:19
I think we are talking about the same thing, the leak head in the jar, with the grass growing of it
Jar??
I leave my leek flower heads on the plant - the biggest 'pips' seem to grow and separate themselves while the stem is still green and healthy, I have noticed that the ones that grow after it dries out can be a bit hard to separate.
Do you cut off all the tiny individual flowers as soon as they appear? I don't get these big early 'pips' unless I stop the leek head producing any flowers at all.
Cheers.
We call removeing the the tiny flower (seed Flower) heads as shaving the head and normaly i don,t cut the head off but that one was brought in by a mate, through lack of room it was beheaded and stood in a jar of water, as the grass was going to be taken off straight away it stays quite fresh for long enough.
That leak we stopped watering and let it dry out then watered it again to force it into seed the idea being to find out if they go to seed erlier by using this method this method.
With the flower head offsets/pips I get a few big ones appearing first, and they are the ones that are worth growing (for me) because they are so much stronger than a new seedling.
I get about 12-20 of these good ones from each decent flower head. These are much less effort than fiddling with seeds for me, and I seldom need more than 40 big leeks a year.
The ones that appear later get smaller and smaller, and I soon give up with them - also because they get harder to separate too.
It's a lazy route to a reasonable crop for me. It's also a bit of a change of routine - I can only do so much regimented seed sowing, pricking and coddling before I want to scream!
Cheers.
PS. If you are forcing leeks to flower early how can you avoid the ones that want to flower early? The naturally early ones are a nuisance surely?
QUOTE{PS. If you are forcing leeks to flower early how can you avoid the ones that want to flower early? The naturally early ones are a nuisance surely?}
Its not a case of forcing them to go to seed early, they are forced so they go to seed and ready to get the grass and pip from in November. this gives maximum growing time so they hit their peak in September.
If i want a leak for the bench it takes 2 years, so you choose two leeks that are good but wont make the bench dig them out and re pot into tubs let them dry out then then water them so you get the seed head the same year.
With ordinary pot leak i dont prick them out they are just set away in a plant pot and left to grow on till ready to plant out. This way i can set away small amounts at intervals ensuring i have leaks all year round.
Wow.
That's a real speciality you've got there...
I'm cutting corners, you're doing a masterclass!
Cheers.