Hi all
This is my first post so be gentle with me.
I have become fascinated by bothe winter and summer squash and am looking to plant a selection on my lottie, trouble is part of the ground is under shade of fully grown trees, can squash be grown in shade or do they need sunlight.
HELP...advice needed
Hiya, lottiedolly, welcome to a4a ;D
lots of squash experts on here, they'll be along soon :)
Hi lottiedolly welcome to the forum.
You say part of your site is shaded, what about the other part? Squashes do like as much sun as possible. There are some courgettes that are not quite so fussy. There is one called Sylvana which is more tolerant of less sun shine. I grow good courgettes in my garden which only has good sun for part of the day. But winter squash is another thing, very noticeable how much better they are in my very sunny allotment.
If you are short of sunny space suggest climbing ones which take up less ground space.
Sound advice Digeroo... and welcome to A4A lottiedolly... :)
Actually have grown excellent winter squash up the sunny side of an apple tree.
Welcome to A4A lottiedolly :)
I accidently, (read as - was having a major blonde moment) planted some of my squash where there was some shade in the afternoon, and the crop I got from that patch wasn't as good, but I still got a crop ;D
1066 (a non expert pumpkin grower !)
The problem we have is that it is only a small allotment and the beans, corn (i grew some turks turban last year and let them grow rampant through the corn patch it ended up a total nightmare) tomatoes and cues have to be in the sun as well as trying to rotate the crops and the patch i was thinking of could let the squash go as rampant as it wants
Most squashes are pretty vigorous, the Sharks Fin type I grew last year climbed and fruited all over a beech tree! ::)
Hi and welcome..
Most squash will tolerate a little shade although you will get better results the more sun you give them, mostly they need room to grow and will suffer very badly if they are cramped. You will also find that they will probably mildew quicker without the full sun, however I would go for it.
May I gently suggest that you pick your types carefully, it won't make much difference wether summer or winter other than the winter need longer growing times so in a poor summer you will find it harder.
Squash are my passion and I would have to find a way!!!
If you have limited room I would be selective as to variety, Turks Turban is very pretty but not very good to eat so you may want to find one that does both purposes, there are hundreds to choose from, the other point is to avoid the winter ones that have a very long growing season as they not mature as well.
XX Jeannine
Hi LD... I'd echo Jeannine (and others) that you'll need to chose varieties with care. Butternut (both the open pollinated Waltham and the F1 Hunter) really don't like significant shade, Festival planted next to the Butternuts produced really well indeed, instead of one or two very small squash I had half a dozen sensible sized ones. Also of all the squash I grew this year, Festival seems to grow mostly bushlike, some of them can be rampant ground vines, though some have sigificant climbing ability.... Bon-Bon is a rampaging thug of a plant in my view but it's capable of setting fruit as a climber, the fruit is a bit bigger than I woudl usually want for my own purposes though.
There's a book called "Compleate Squash" by Amy Johnson that is great for advice, but I'd be more tempted to talk to the A4A members that are really into squiash (Squash64 adn Jeannine leap to mind) as Amy's book is American (not a bad thing but we can't get half the varieties she's talking about) and her growing conditions are not really the same as ours....
I can let you have a few seeds oif different varieties if you're willing to spend a eyar finding out what does adn doesn't work......
chrisc
chrisc
Chris thank you for the offer, that would be lovely, am i allowed to accept seeds from you as i have not been posting a long time? I do not want to be kicked off the site for abusing peoples good nature.
Kindest regards
K
Lottidolly
I wish to inform you that chriscross1966 has been struck off A4A for offering seeds!! :P
Duke ;D
LottieDolly - just watch out if he offers you any Egyptian Onion seeds - he's after world domination ;) :o ;D
Quote from: lottiedolly on November 17, 2009, 14:48:12
Chris thank you for the offer, that would be lovely, am i allowed to accept seeds from you as i have not been posting a long time? I do not want to be kicked off the site for abusing peoples good nature.
Kindest regards
K
I don't have a good nature....... 8)
Quote from: chriscross1966 on November 17, 2009, 17:11:17
I don't have a good nature....... 8)
Hes bad and hes proud :P
Duke
you lot are rotten ;D
It is only that i do not know the rules and do not like to abuse, but i will say, yes Chris i would like to try some seeds, what do i need to do (no rude remarks please!!!!!)
kind regards
K
Quote from: lottiedolly on November 18, 2009, 08:44:11
you lot are rotten ;D
It is only that i do not know the rules and do not like to abuse, but i will say, yes Chris i would like to try some seeds, what do i need to do (no rude remarks please!!!!!)
kind regards
K
PM (personal message.... click on my name and you'll go to my profile and there's a button for "Send personal message")me your address and I'll stick a few seeds in a pack for you..,. probably be Winter festival (bombproof) Delicata (great taste) and Hunter Butternut (probably the best chance of a butternut in the UK)
chrisc
or the little green 'scroll' under chris' post :)
Thank you guys i appreciate the advice and Chris i have PM'd you
;D
Quote from: lottiedolly on November 18, 2009, 17:56:34
Thank you guys i appreciate the advice and Chris i have PM'd you
;D
Hi LD,
I've stuck four of each Delicata and Butternut Hunter and five Winter Festival (in seperate laberlled bags) in an envelope. You should get them by the weekend....
Basic growing tips....
Sow individually in a 3" pot mid-April..
Water in with Cheshunt Compound mixed at one flat teaspoon to the pint of water.
Cover, either in a propagator or put a bag/clingfilm over top of pot.
Put somewhere warm and check daily if that place is dark (like an airing cupboard)
As soon as it hatches (4-5 days in an airing cupboard generally) then uncover it and get it somewhere sunny and not too cold (south facing window sill, greenhouse etc)
As soon as the roots are showing at the bottom of the pot transplant into a 6" pot.
Repeat with an 8"-10" pot if needed.
Towards the end of May harden off. Start by leaving it outside during the day (as long as not really cold/blowing a gale/chucking down), move onto to only taking it in if nightime temps are predicted lower than 8-10 degrees, then hopefully towards the end of May/early June you will have been able to leave it out for a week without bringing it in.
Plant out in/on a slight mound formed by digging a hole a foot or so cubed, pour in aa bag of manure. Top off with the earth from the hole. Sprinkle and mix in a couple of heaped tablespoons BFB, and a handful of chicken manure pellets if you've got them. Weedmulch around the plants is a good idea., as is sticking in a 2 or 5litre bottle with the bottom cut off upside down (pinhole in the cap) next to it.Water if it goes a week without raining.
Control mildew by spraying with 1 part milk mixed with 10 parts water. The odd slubpellet early on wouldn't go amiss ....
Hand pollinate inside varieties if at all possible.
S
Thanks for the instructions, I have copied and paste them so i can print it off and save them. Also thanks for the seeds, i will be googling all about these squashes.
Roll on April, and i will be asking about hand pollinating.
Kindest regards
LD
Another one who has cut and pasted you instructions thank you. I have got several types to try next year here they are
Winter Squashes
Boston
Cheyenne Bush pumpkin
Thelma Sanders sweet potato squash
Blue Banana
Burgess Buttercup
Waltham Butternut
Summer Squash
Summer crookneck
Patterson Orange
Some are going to be grown in my garden, should be fun.
Quote from: chriscross1966 on November 18, 2009, 18:37:51
Put somewhere warm and check daily if that place is dark (like an airing cupboard)
As soon as it hatches (4-5 days in an airing cupboard generally) then uncover it and get it somewhere sunny and not too cold (south facing window sill, greenhouse etc)
Chriscross - do you actually do it that way yourself successfully or are you just suggesting it for people without propagators?
Thing is some seed packets say don't exclude light from squashes because it helps germination. (T&M for example)
It would certainly be easier if I could put them in the airing cupboard, but I didn't last year because of that.
I haven't heard the one about allowing light to get to the seed, but I always bury my squashes in the pots, and I've never had problems. Sometimes I've germinated them in an airing cupboard, and it's always worked fine.
I,ve always germinated mine the same way as Chriscross too, works best for me and I haven't seen anything about light either.
T.
Paula, that is a lovely selection of squash that you will be growing
Earlypea read the packet again, I often misread them , once they have germinated then they need the light, generally on a sunny window seal. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: earlypea on November 20, 2009, 10:16:35
Quote from: chriscross1966 on November 18, 2009, 18:37:51
Put somewhere warm and check daily if that place is dark (like an airing cupboard)
As soon as it hatches (4-5 days in an airing cupboard generally) then uncover it and get it somewhere sunny and not too cold (south facing window sill, greenhouse etc)
Chriscross - do you actually do it that way yourself successfully or are you just suggesting it for people without propagators?
Thing is some seed packets say don't exclude light from squashes because it helps germination. (T&M for example)
It would certainly be easier if I could put them in the airing cupboard, but I didn't last year because of that.
I must admit I took that from a book, I use propagators. I doubt if much light gets through an inch of compost though..... They do need plenty of light as soon as they hatch though, they etiolate really quickly.....
chrisc
There is an Italian squash I've grown 2 years called Zuccetta Rampicantetromboncino which makes a zucchini shaped summer squash and will happily climb for you. Mine were planted in sun but I trained some of them on strings into shaded bushes where they did not get much sun and still produced squash. The seed catalogue said they'd get 5 foot runners but mine must have been almost 15 ft. It is worth a try. Let us know how you do!
Quote from: GrannieAnnie on November 22, 2009, 03:19:58
.... The seed catalogue said they'd get 5 foot runners but mine must have been almost 15 ft. It is worth a try. Let us know how you do!
There's lies, damned lies and seedsmen's estimates of squash runner lengths......:D
Quote from: cornykev on November 21, 2009, 14:43:57
Earlypea read the packet again, I often misread them , once they have germinated then they need the light, generally on a sunny window seal. ;D ;D ;D
Didn't misread it - my packet says the same as this online info "
QuoteAfter sowing, do not exclude light as this helps germination
http://www.thompson-morgan.com/seeds1/product/242/1/
doesn't say that for all the squashes though....
Thanks for the reports - I'll try the airing cupboard this year. I can't keep them warm enough any other way.
I did wonder whether there was something in it though because last year on another forum when people were complaining about the lack of germination in spring someone who seems to be a bit knowledgeable (although you never really know online) said that squashes were even sensitive to the orientation of the sun when germinating so you shouldn't move them around. I've no idea where that comes from either!
If it was true I'm sure some of the squash fanatics here would know.
I have found in the past that if particular courgettes/squashes fail to germinated that putting them in damp kitchen roll in a plastic bag and putting on the window sill jogs them into action.
There is one called Clarita which particularly responds well to a blast of light.
They have a little film of material coating the inner part of the seed which turns green perhaps this is helps the germination process. I mostly germinate mine on top of the radiator in damp kitchen roll and pot on as soon as there is a root.
Sweet Corn likes the sun shine as well.
This is one I will be trying next year:
http://www.thompson-morgan.com/seeds1/product/547/1.html
Quite a few people on our site grow it and it seems to be very productive with smallish (as squash go) plants. Not sure if it is suitable for lower levels of sun, but someone else may comment.
Quote from: earlypea on November 22, 2009, 09:01:22
Quote from: cornykev on November 21, 2009, 14:43:57
Earlypea read the packet again, I often misread them , once they have germinated then they need the light, generally on a sunny window seal. ;D ;D ;D
Didn't misread it - my packet says the same as this online info "
QuoteAfter sowing, do not exclude light as this helps germination
http://www.thompson-morgan.com/seeds1/product/242/1/
doesn't say that for all the squashes though....
Thanks for the reports - I'll try the airing cupboard this year. I can't keep them warm enough any other way.
I did wonder whether there was something in it though because last year on another forum when people were complaining about the lack of germination in spring someone who seems to be a bit knowledgeable (although you never really know online) said that squashes were even sensitive to the orientation of the sun when germinating so you shouldn't move them around. I've no idea where that comes from either!
If it was true I'm sure some of the squash fanatics here would know.
Most of the dicot type plants are sensitive to direction of sun (tropism), the first pair of squash leaves face the sun in early growth, changing their orientation will cause the plant to waste energy turning it's leaves round to where it wants them to be!!
thanks Tonybloke.
I do know about that (though not the terminology), but does it apply to actual germination itself, not later leaves emerging because that's what was implied. ie. you mustn't move them after sowing.
What do you folks mean by an "airing cupboard", please?
GA - it usually a large cupboard with the boiler or hot water tank in and some slated shelves. Useful space for storing bedding and towels and germinating seeds ;). So it's warm, dry and dark. Unfortunately I don't have one, so rely on sunny window cills :D
Quote from: 1066 on November 23, 2009, 11:20:18
GA - it usually a large cupboard with the boiler or hot water tank in and some slated shelves. Useful space for storing bedding and towels and germinating seeds ;). So it's warm, dry and dark. Unfortunately I don't have one, so rely on sunny window cills :D
Interesting! Learn something new everyday.
I presume that it is something you do not have on your side of the salty pond. Do you have a warm cupboard if so what do you call it?
I don't germinate in mine once had a nasty accident with some compost all over the clean towels. I find that heat of the radiator jogs then into action really quickly. In my previous house I had a floor boiler and the top was great for begonias courgettes and yoghurt. Now the boiler is on the wall takes up less space but cannot put seeds on top.
Quote from: earlypea on November 23, 2009, 10:00:35
thanks Tonybloke.
I do know about that (though not the terminology), but does it apply to actual germination itself, not later leaves emerging because that's what was implied. ie. you mustn't move them after sowing.
the very first pair of 'leaves' out of the seed, are not 'real' leaves., they are VITAL for early growth, and any re-orientation (turning around) of the juvenile plant will be detrimental to it's health and vigour.
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotyledon ;)
Now I've learnt something new - TonyBloke, thanks for the info, I hadn't realised how sensitive the 1st leaves are. And will hopefully help with next years squash plants :)
Quote from: 1066 on November 23, 2009, 14:32:59
Now I've learnt something new - TonyBloke, thanks for the info,
You are very welcome, it's what the forum is all about!! ;)
Interesting about not moving the plants. I certainly move mine after they have chitted but before the cotyledons emerge. I will have an experiement and see if they are better if not moved.
I do a lot of moving of plants as I do not have a green house so they have to be moved into the kitchen every night.
Cornkev, you have seals on your window sill, (or is it cill, you have got me at it now), they must enjoy the sun. I've got a picture in my mind of seals sunbathing with seeds growing on them. ;D ;D ;D I expect you are still celebrating something, was it tennis or football. ;) ;) That is a great idea about an airing cupboard, I can move all the towels up and put seeds on the bottom shelf, it does get warm in there because of the central heating pipes but to warm and it is dark. Does that sound OK, apart from OH pulling a towel out after a shower, I am already in trouble because of the twins (cats). Maybe I will get banned for going off topic, again.
Quote from: Digeroo on November 23, 2009, 12:54:16
I presume that it is something you do not have on your side of the salty pond. Do you have a warm cupboard if so what do you call it?
We don't have any sort of warm cupboard and the furnace is insulated so tightly that even laying a tray on top of it doesn't do anything. It must be lovely pulling a blanket all warmed up out of the airing box on a cold night.
Last year I used a little waterproof medical type heating pad to give bottom heat to a tray and it worked nicely. One woman I read used an electric blanket covered with waterproof plastic for bottom heat which took care of many trays though I guess I'd be a little afraid of fire perhaps?
they actually make electric blankets that you can wash in an automatic washing machine, these days!! ;)
Quote from: tonybloke on November 23, 2009, 20:52:03
they actually make electric blankets that you can wash in an automatic washing machine, these days!! ;)
oh, duh! of course! ::) But come to think of it, they're not plugged in while being washed.
wow! what a wealth of info has been posted in the 48hrs i didn't visit, you lot are clever, thanks for the education :D.
I am not sure that using an electric blanket is such a good idea. It is using something for which it was never designed. I would be concerned how the insurance would feel if a fire was caused.
You can buy electric propagators.
Our water tank well insulated so airing cupboard not very warm. I much prefer a piggy (a hot water bottle) for a warm fix we have even got an old ceramic one which keeps the heat even longer than a plastic one. Or putting a blanket over a radiator.
I have vague plans for when i have a proper place of my own to build the mother of allpropagators using soil warming cables , probably with LED growlighting too.....
chrisc
Quote from: Digeroo on November 24, 2009, 10:10:47
You can buy electric propagators.
True. But two of my goals in gardening are:
(1) to spend as little money as possible and
(2)not add to the pile of things to be stored.
Ray has put a shelf over the radiator in the dining room for me ;D
Grannie Annie, check out the thrift stores and find yourself that daft clear plastic wardrobe that folks used to use ,it has a hook at the top and a zip all round, Find a place to hang that in you basement, put your heating pad in the bottom and put something in for the plants to stand on, we used an old clothes drying rack. It makes a huge warm cupboard for starting things off, you can even put a light in it if you want to.. Thank goodness for places like Value Village!!
XXJeannine