I want to cover the beds which I've recently dug and weeded. Would you recommend weed control fabric, or black plastic?
Or something else?
fabric is better than plastic as it is porous.
Cardboard? - cheaper?
I prefer nothing at all, I like the weather to get into the soil during the winter months.
Why keep all the pests & diseases warm for the winter they will only cause you trouble when you plant out!
A good hoe is all you need!
My way; http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Slide%20Shows/Soil%20preparation%20ss/soil%20preparation%20ss.html (http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Slide%20Shows/Soil%20preparation%20ss/soil%20preparation%20ss.html)
My point exactly (but you beat me too it (just))
Why ?
Nothing will grow from now until March, not even bindweed (?)
Why not leave the soil to the winter elements and then cover in March, if desired. That way, the things that run or wriggle will die off and you'll have less P&D next year.
we cover with cardboard then weed control, the beds are uncovered 2 weeks before they're planted up so's the bugs can get eaten, they're usually near the surface and easier for the birds to find ;D
If they're proper beds, dug & weeded, then - as Tee Gee says - let 'em get on with it. But if it's a rough area which you haven't quite got round to digging properly yet, thick plastic.
I put some down on a rough area behind the greenhouse last year. I'd weeded and dug out all the bramble & stuff, and then covered it, hoping it would go away. But She Who Must Be Obeyed has designated that area as the site for a shed. I've spent this afternoon levelling it and, when I pulled back the plastic, the soil was spotless: not a weed of any kind in sight. (I nearly forgot My Orders and turned it into another veg bed on the spot!)
The annual type of weeds grow right through the Winter in Glasgow, so I cover the beds with plastic or old tarpaulins to keep the beds weed free of annual weeds. Some perennial weeds try and keep growing, but doing it this way makes it so much easier to prepare the bed in the Spring for sowing.
Quote from: Psi on October 13, 2009, 16:14:54
fabric is better than plastic as it is porous.
Cardboard? - cheaper?
Do you put anything else on or just cardboard?
I have masses of thick cardboard.
true, nothing much grows now so why not leave it. I'm slowly digging trenches and burying a load of compost/leaf mould/cardboard and then covering over - trying to improve heavy clay. I'm leaving lumps to break down over the winter.
Thanks everyone for your replies.
One of the reasons I want to cover is because someone on another plot had left theirs covered for some months and when they took the cover off - there wasn't a weed in sight!
We don't cover any of our plot. Tony says that the soil needs to breathe.I don't like plastic anyway. I agree with Tee Gee about the pests too. The frost and the birds will help to see off some of the pests and the seeds
"They" tell us that if soil is left uncovered over the winter, the nutrients "leach away" and we lose them.
I would like to know where they are supposed to leach to? Deeper into the ground?
That's where we would like them to be isn't it? So that roots go deep down in search of them.....
Does anyone know why we are afraid of "leaching"?
Quote from: artichoke on October 15, 2009, 12:52:28
"They" tell us that if soil is left uncovered over the winter, the nutrients "leach away" and we lose them.
I would like to know where they are supposed to leach to? Deeper into the ground?
That's where we would like them to be isn't it? So that roots go deep down in search of them.....
Does anyone know why we are afraid of "leaching"?
THey're not the people that believe in crystal healing therapy and detox diets are they?.... You can make a minor case about run-off causing soil erosion on sloped sites I guess but that's about it...
chrisfc
We use black plastic. The down side to using it is that it sometimes collects water on the top of it and it becomes heavy. . . not a major issue! We use plastic because we already had it in use when we took over our plot so we used it to cover most of the plot while we dug and weeded it. Weed suppressant membrane would allow the water to go through and it would be lighter and easier to handle.
I like to cover my beds during the winter it saves so much time the next season. Before I plant or sow in spring I uncover the beds, add some BF&B or whatever does it for you and leave for a couple of weeks. When you do uncover the soil is warm and very workable. Some other plot holders that do not cover have to wait if the their soil is too wet to work or sow in ~ we dont. ;D There will always be some that hate to use it and some that love it.
Decision Time..... ;D
Duke
Anything that is water soluble will leach out of the soil and eventually find its way into the water course.
Where lots of people are using chemicals (especially Lime) there is a build up in the watercourses and it is this that is killing off the natural wildlife.
Eg too much lime will kill off Fish and Frogs.
It is no single individual doing this, its a cumulative effect of hundreds/thousands of people doing it.
Quote"They" tell us that if soil is left uncovered over the winter, the nutrients "leach away"
What nutrients?
Surely no one feeds their ground going into winter :o
Time enough to add nutrients just prior to planting out!
If lime is being added in the autumn then thats fine if it leaches down into the soil it means it gives it a chance to alter the soil pH.
Otherwise no feeding!!
I for one am Tee Gee!! I am putting compost/seaweed etc on top of my deep beds and leaving them for the worms to take the compost down into the soil.
I am considering covering it with plastic as - has been said - I don't want the goodness washed down too deep into the soil so that the plants can't reach it with their roots.
I am covering them for the first time this year so I will see how it works and let you know. Can't think anything terrible will happen tho?!!
some people on our site dig HUGE DEEP (2 ft and counting) trenches for their runner beans - I don't see the point of digging so deep as the beans roots don't go down any further than 1ft (I am guessing!) so there is a load of wasted food stuffs for plants down there!
Old Bird
:D
QuoteDoes anyone know why we are afraid of "leaching"?
We are on gravel and the nutrients leach straight out of the soil like water through a sieve. I try to put in a green manure or grow annual weeds over the winter and hoe them in spring. So presume the answer will vary according to your soil type.
I think that the frost improves the soil texture. Certainly for seed beds a bit of frost does a great job.
In my garden I get forgetmenot and I leave that overwinter and remove in the spring leaving a few to flower. I think that they take up the last of the nutrients and then they get put back in as compost.
QuoteI am putting compost/seaweed etc on top of my deep beds and leaving them for the worms to take the compost down into the soil.
I see where your going OB but as I mentioned in another thread,I don't consider manure/seaweed & compost a fertiliser, I consider them to be 'soil improvers!
I would go along with covering if I was putting farmyard manure on top!
If you don't! come spring; you find that all the faeces and urine has washed into the soil and you are left with a pile of straw/bedding on top of your soil.
I find this a bit difficult to dig in, hence my digging in my manure when I do my winter digging!
But like lots of gardening techniques it up to the individual, and my way is dig it in, and let the winter get at the soil and the annual weeds I have disturbed when digging!
Your way you create reasonable propagating/germination conditions for these seeds!
That is; they are covered, and the birds can't get at them when they are foraging for food during the winter!
So more weeds next year ;)
As I say............each to their own! 8)
I can't comment on which is best for killing weeds, but the major downside of plastic is that it is lethally slippery when wet. Would not recommend it for that reason alone, I have slipped over a couple of times, luckily wasnt carrying anything sharp.
I use a cheapo version of Mypex from this place that isnt so slippery (but still take care when its wet) http://www.allplas.co.uk/acatalog/index.htm but I'm sure Tee Gee is right, and it would be better for the soil to dig and cover in compost!
British soils have what's called a 'positive water budget', ie more water falls on them from the sky than evaporates or is transpired by plants. This is particularly true in winter, when little transpiration occurs. So water tends to move downward through the soil, carrying anything soluble with it. That results in the removal of nutrients, a process known as 'leaching'. It's nothing to do with any mysterious 'they'.
Good post Robert
This time of year I cant see a reason for covering as weeds dont grow. Dig in some muck and let nature do its thing. I cover using SPM in courgette and chilli beds in spring summer - mainly because I am not a big waterer (time constraints). The winter is a time to really improve the soil.
Like everything else in life Its amatter of choice. To cover or not to cover.
Interesting debate this. I also treat manure as a soil improver, and have tried both applying a thick layer of manure and covering beds with black plastic overwinter, and leaving others uncovered, and covering them a few weeks before wanting to plant up in Spring.
The results seem to depend on the weather; I have had some beds remain very dry when covered all winter, and instead of finding nice worm worked friable soil, uncovered dried out lumpy manure that had remained as it went on virtually, and was a devil to fork in. On the other hand, uncovered beds remained more moist and broke down more overwinter, but were quick to sprout many weeds as soon as the weather warmed up a bit and certainly lost some of their bulk.
This year I'm making sure the manure and underlying soil gets well soaked before covering some that I will not need to use before April, and my potato beds that I will leave uncovered until early March, when I will cover them to warm the soil a bit before planting my earlies.
Tee Gee - I am using sea weed not just as a soil improver - but fertiliser as well.
If you check out most liquid fertilisers one of their main constituents is seaweed. I am not using manure this year due to the amni thingemybob. And my general compost is pretty good stuff!
But as you say - each to their own - this year I will be trying out the plastic so will see how it goes.
Lewic - my beds are deep beds so don't get walked on and compacted at all - so no worries about slipping on the plastic! I am sure that I will get all manner of weeds - but I doubt any more than usual annuals - which - with deep beds are no problem to remove!
O B
;)
QuoteI am using sea weed not just as a soil improver - but fertiliser as well.
Interesting!!
But remember! that seaweed based fertilisers are high in potash (tomato feed) and if you are growing brassicas you might find you have to supplement your beds with nitrogen at planting out time!
I found the following article in a an old book I have and thought it might be of interest to you;
Seaweed. A valuable subsititute for dung.
Compared with this, seaweed is rich in potash and almost lacking in phosphates, so is even more in need of balancing with chemicals.
Seaweed may either be dug in as gathered at rates of about 1 cwt. to 8 square yards or may be dried and dug in at about 1 cwt. to 24 square yards.
The bladder seaweeds and driftweeds with long, broad frortds are the best kinds.
Analysis varies according to variety.
An average for fresh seaweed is nitrogen 0.5% (7 Ib. per ton), phosphoric acid 0.2% (2 Ib. per ton), potash 1% (20 Ib." per ton).
Tee Gee
I also throw on a lot (and I mean a lot!) of spent coffee beans - which I am led to believe are high in nitrogen!? I am actually not very good at the chemical side of things but I have been told that the beans are high in nitrogen which the worms are said to love?!!
Thanks for the old book excerpt (sorry brain gone to mush and I can't spell this afternoon) I will re-look at it on Monday morning as my brain needs a rest.
Have a good weekend!
Old Bird
;D
I find the weeds tend to grow quite well enough over the winter, but like TG I like the elements to get at the soil - just think of the weeds as a green manure.