Hi
I noticed on the daughterofthesoil blog that she thinks that the Crimson-flowered broad bean is more resistant to blackfly than other varieties.
http://www.daughterofthesoil.com/crimsonflowered.html
Did anyone else have a similar experience?
Mine (Epicure) were a total disaster this year and had to be composted.
Thanks.
I haven't noticed any difference.. my Epicure were fine but my CFBBeans tend to get swamped by the blackfly... :'(
My crimson-flowered beans were devastated this year - lost the entire crop.
I can't say I notice any difference between the two, both had some blackfly, which they weathered well with a little help from some soft soap.
All mine, two varieties one of which was crimson-flowered, were totally blackfly infested so dug up and composted. That was despite pinching out and spraying.
It was the worst year I've ever seen.
Shame - I thought I might be on to something :(
Seems it's in the lap of the Gods then.
I suppose it can't be as bad as this year - it really did seem an exceptional one in the south east for aphids and ants.
Thanks for all the replies.
(I finally composted mine after having a nightmare about flossing black-fly from between my teeth :o )
Next year I shall be far more vigilant and at the first sign of any I'll spray them with rhubarb leaf liquid.
That's leaves left to soak in water. Several people have said that it works, but that it smells really digusting so to keep the bucket well out the way!
Thanks Flighty, I'll remember that for next year. May be worth a try.
The fatty acids didn't seem effective in the face of a total plague, maybe if it's just a few early critters it would work....but they just kept on coming.
Quote from: earlypea on September 28, 2009, 08:56:25
(I finally composted mine after having a nightmare about flossing black-fly from between my teeth :o )
eeewwwww!
I haven't tried the crimson flowered broadies yet, but my early sowings really weren't affected, the later sowings did get hit but not till quite late. I also grew summer savoury alongside them (I'd read that it helps / detracts the aphids in terms of companion planting, so I'll be trying it again next year)
1066
In the frozen wastelands of the Midlands, I had a bumper year of Aquadulce and Bunyards. so much that I ate as many as possible, filled the freezer, and left the rest for seed. I now have over 700 seeds for next year!
I can't seem to give them away, and God knows where I'd plant them, maybe I need another plot - just for baens.
Mine like many others were a total disaster, absolutely swamped with the beggars. Hopefully better luck next year
Grew Crimson flowered and Masterpiece Green Longpod. About two plants of the later had a problem with blackfly. No shortage of blackfly on beans elsewhere on site.
Thanks to a tip from Geoffrey Smith on Gardeners question time many many years ago I do not have a problem with blackfly. You just put the packet of beans in the freezer for a few weeks before sowing, or even better put the packet outside in a sealed plastic bag - ensure it is frozen several times.
I planted mine late this year, and they got hammered by blackfly for a while. They disappeared again as soon as the weather cooled off. I haven't had any problem on spring-flowered CFBB though.
Quote from: Digeroo on September 28, 2009, 14:20:48
Thanks to a tip from Geoffrey Smith on Gardeners question time many many years ago I do not have a problem with blackfly. You just put the packet of beans in the freezer for a few weeks before sowing, or even better put the packet outside in a sealed plastic bag - ensure it is frozen several times.
Quite an intriguing idea there :)
Digeroo - are you saying that since you've been doing this you've never had a serious blackfly problem? Presumably you did before sometimes?
If I put them in the freezer it's going to be much colder than leaving them outside. I mean there's barely much frost here in the balmy south east before Christmas. Are the beans supposed to sort of align themselves to the local weather conditions or meant to be very cold?
Did he say how or why this works at all ?
And is that for autumn planting or early spring planting?
In fact I wondered about whether that has an effect for people in general too. They say it does but seems to me people were doomed this year whether they planted in early winter or early spring - no difference. People who planted very late, once the ladybirds arrived, had far more success.
Just the questions I would like the answer to earlypea [ put much better than I could].
Quote from: tomatoada on September 29, 2009, 11:02:48
Just the questions I would like the answer to earlypea [ put much better than I could].
You flatter me Ada 8)
Bumping......Digeroooooooooo - we really want to know.
I wondered if people who have grown both varieties had any thoughts about the difference in taste between the red epicure and crimson-flowered? Aslo is there any other source of seeds for Crimson flowered than the heritage seed library?
Tish: Robinsons do crimson flowered BB
http://www.mammothonion.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_RBB54
Robinsons have red flowered. But in my experience the hit rate is rather poor. Fewer than a half turn out to be red.
Better the second generation.
http://www.mammothonion.co.uk/shop/7/index.htm
Since Geoffrey I have had very little problem with black fly. I have been doing this for 15-20 years. Never had a problem with it since that time. This year only two plants suffered out of several hundred. There was plenty of blackfly on nearby allotments. Three allotments away up wind they were caked in them.
I also believe that ants farm them so removing ants is also a good thing to do.
Quote from: TISH on November 23, 2009, 10:09:15
... is there any other source of seeds for Crimson flowered than the heritage seed library?
I bought mine from Plants of Dstinction ... T&M also do them.
And 1066 ... Savory is also very good when cooked
with the beans ;D ;)
Quote from: Digeroo on November 23, 2009, 10:23:33I also believe that ants farm them so removing ants is also a good thing to do.
How do you do that without using something toxic Digeroo?
Boiling water and stamping on them when they emerge in August.
Quote from: flowerlady on November 23, 2009, 10:28:51
And 1066 ... Savory is also very good when cooked with the beans ;D ;)
;D ;D ;D
I kept meaning to try it, but kept forgetting. Must remember next spring!!
any comments on taste? Although likely to try both as I love my broad beans.
Brown envelope seeds also do them. They're not so well known but I find them excellent.
http://brownenvelopeseeds.com/index.php/
I do not think that crimson flowered broad beans particularly good flavour but the flowers are stunning.
sound to me like another rumor with out basis.
As for ants Aspartame works quite well for killing them with no damage to other animals or plants.
Quote from: mrestofus on November 23, 2009, 20:24:12
sound to me like another rumor with out basis.
Actually, it's an observation based on the experience of a gardener who grows and breeds an extensive range of beans (if you read the source you'd know that) so worth asking more widely in my opinion.
Quite different from a rumour!
I heard the tip about freezing broad beans many many years ago. Since I hate blackfly anything was worth a try expecially if it costs nothing. The source was very respected but to tell you the truth the other contributors to the programmme did not give a very enthusiastic welcome to this suggestion.
I believe this works. I will not loose any sleep if I am proved wrong by people's experiences.
I only wish I knew of a similar technique to deter slugs.
There does seem to be a lot of variation in blackfly resistance. I tried Cosso Violetto one year, and they were almost killed by the things. I've never had any problems with Aquadulce Claudia (the odd plant gets covered but it doesn't seem to bother them) or Red-Flowered.
Quote from: Digeroo on November 24, 2009, 09:44:09
I heard the tip about freezing broad beans many many years ago. Since I hate blackfly anything was worth a try expecially if it costs nothing.
I read about an identical technique in Gardening Which
but it was only being suggested as a cure for bean weevil eggs in the seeds - basically if you kill the eggs you don't get holes appearing in the beans when the weevils leave (and then go for your flour and pasta stocks).
This makes perfect sense (if it works) whereas the idea that a clean dry seed can affect a fly that appears several months later seems - well - highly implausible.
However it is amazingly difficult to work out what can deflect or has deflected blackfly.
For example - if you plant a short row every fortnight in Oct, Nov and March you can find (as I do) that some escape serious fly damage and some don't - and every year it's different.
My theory is that the ladybirds reach critical populations in time to save one or two crops out of 6 or 7, and it's a different one each year because they depend on the weather that year.
If you have an allotment you should be able to grow enough seed to do this at minimal cost.
To get back to the thread heading - I think the crimson-flowered one has a good rep because it tends to be planted late - one of the best ways to ensure there are lots of ladybirds.
Cheers.
It's interesting what you say about sowing times and pests Vinlander because the general received wisdom is sow early avoid pests, but my actual experience is sow very late indeed and get none at all!
Trouble is then you don't get them to fill the hungry gap and once the french beans are with us, who needs 'em.
Dunno about the sowing late idea. The time I planted Cosso Violetto, I put them in late. They were literally black with aphids. I grow Aquadulce Claudia early, and never have more then the odd plant that's badly infested.
I've never had a March/April sowing that didn't beat the frenchies by 3 weeks or more. But then I've never sown Frenchies before mid April (indoors). And in my kitchen broad beans are a competitor for peas, not green beans...
All I can say is every year is different, and you can't have too many broad beans (*), so go for your planned sowing but do another either much earlier or later (or both) using up all your seeds - even in a bad year you will get your seeds back and soon you will be able to do 4 5 6 or 7 sowings.
I guarantee one of them will be much cleaner than the rest. It's never the one you expect.
* A good nitrogen fixer and a green manure if the worst comes to the worst.
Cheers.
It's only my second year of growing vegetables so I wouldn't really know, but does seem the second year is totally different to the first and first year BB success, second one utter failure.
I am planning autumn sowing and late spring sowing this time round. I agree Vinlander, it makes sense that with one sowing or another you'll avoid trouble. I have to grow them for the others anyhow because they love them.
Even if the freezing doesn't work I feel that keeping them cold and cool *might* make them stronger and less suseptible to pests - so I have frozen them this year and got them to germinate in the cold, now planted out without any cover or cossetting.
And my french beans, outdoor sown in April under a plastic cloche, they were definitely cropping magnificently this year at the same time or before some peoples' BBs but could be a fluke as it was very hot in spring and early summer. I'll do it again though.
Quotebut does seem the second year is totally different to the first and first year BB success, second one utter failure
It is amazing just how different each year turns out to be. It even varies from one site to another. Having both the garden and allotment it is amazing the differences.
I think multiply sowings is a good idea, it is surprising sometimes that one batch will do much better than the others and another batch will totally fail. The idea is to get them to crop over a long period but quite often they still all crop at once.
Quote from: earlypea on November 25, 2009, 09:05:46
It's interesting what you say about sowing times and pests Vinlander because the general received wisdom is sow early avoid pests, but my actual experience is sow very late indeed and get none at all!
Trouble is then you don't get them to fill the hungry gap and once the french beans are with us, who needs 'em.
Me... far prefer good honest english beans as opposed to anything associated with the cheese eating surrender-monkeys......:D.... seriously though, way prefer broadies and other shelling beans to green-beans, even the Cobras that did so well for me this year and were great.... I'd still rather have managed to get another row of Claudias in.... domestic authorities prefer green beans though....
chrisc
chriscross1966 french beans are not even french.
Any vegetable that has a place name in it is so-named after one of the stages on its journey to its new home.
For example the modern Greek name for oranges enshrines the fact that they arrived there via Portugal.
Lawrence D Hills reckoned that jerusalem artichokes got their names by arriving via Ter Neusen in Holland - though personally I find the similarity with girasole a bit too compelling.
My main problem with the French is that they recognise good food but nevertheless go out of their way to make sure that all the veg (and especially fruit) they send us is s£!t.
I suspect they tried to keep french beans to themselves as long as possible.
It's bad enough that they keep their Braeburns in store until they are tasteless and then send them here in time to confuse buyers who want fresh zingy ones from NZ...
But personally I'll never forgive them for 'bertrand' - a particularly tasteless golden delicious (sic) sport with a russet skin.
When I bought one I thought it was Egremont Russet - I can't believe this wasn't deliberate - there can be no other reason for growing such a piece of c&@p!
Cheers
With all broad beans I pinch the tops out..
the tender young tips are
where the dreaded blackfly start from,
then work there way onto the rest of the plant..
often and mainly transfered by the ants ...
as and when the goodness has gone from the tips....
presumably the milk the ants extrct from the flies.. ???
For the past few years its wurked for me... ;)
I've never bothered with de-tipping, since a few fly on the tip don't seem to do much harm. It's when the fly decide they fancy the whole plant that they do damage, and then they develop all over the place so de-tipping will make no difference.
The fly extract the sap, take out the goodness, and poo sugar syrup - they don't use all the sugar - and that's why ants (and sometimes bees) like them. If you ever come across honeydew honey (lime, for instance), it's concentrated essence of aphid poo, vomited up by bees. Lovely!
Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on December 01, 2009, 14:56:56
If you ever come across honeydew honey (lime, for instance), it's concentrated essence of aphid poo, vomited up by bees. Lovely!
Yum, sounds delightful :o