whats your secret hoping to get idea's on how to clear the bind weed. The reason is at the allotment today friend has found an old book that says if you soak bind weed in water (a long time I presume) and then water your plot from it, it will weaken whats in the ground then kill eventually.
So the question is has anyone heard of this or tried this idea or have you any great idea's on how to get rid of it with out industrial chemicals do like to be Organic.
The only way I've been dealing with bindweed (there was loads on my plot when I took it over this time last year) is to dig the plot over by hand removing all the roots you can find, then when the stuff pokes it's head above the soil again (and it will), yank it out. Extremely labour intensive, but it beats going to the gym!
Didn't want to use chemical either, and judging by people that do you need repeat applications of heavy duty weedkiller, and all that time you can't grow anything else.
Also if any does grow after you've started growing veg in the beds, poke canes in for the bind weed to grow up (rather than up your plants) and dig it out after you've harvested. Remember the roots are extremely brittle so they break very easily and each new bit of root with produce a new plant. good luck!
I have been tempted to use chemicals, but haven't and I just dig them out. As aqui suggests, it is a good idea to grow them up canes, easier to locate, just watch your eyes when you bend down!
Suffering the same problem on my new plot - d**n stuff shoots from any tiny fragment of root left in the soil. Only thing to do is watch for when it pops its head up, and dig it out. I think it'll give up the ghost eventually!
Same problem with nettles - I'm digging up tons of really thick, gnarly roots, which all shoot if you leave a bit in. Tis hard work this allotmenteering! :)
At least you can eat the nettles!
Ten x
True! But bindweed flowers are also rather pretty, so it's not all doom and gloom! ;D
We have a wire netting fence all the way round our plot and covering the fence is bindweed. It is a horrible weed, so invasive and difficult to shift. Like most people here we don't want to go the chemical route and have been just digging it out as much as we can. There is nothing I can add to advise that has not already been suggested, but just wanted to say you are not alone.
I haven't heard of any miracle formulae, just hard slog to keep it under control. When my sister-in-law visited the plot in the summer, she commented on how lovely the flowers looked on the plants covering our fence, needless to say my husband whispered several curses under his breath. Just keep plugging away. ;D busy_lizzie
Quote from: aquilegia on October 05, 2004, 09:01:26
Also if any does grow after you've started growing veg in the beds, poke canes in for the bind weed to grow up
Now why didn't I think of that? ::)
Great idea for next year!
I really can't see how the use of glyphosphate on the foliage can have any affect on the soil & therefore be non-organic.
And if you do spray the soil, you can still sow or plant immediately. = Tim
Hi all, new member, been an allotment holder for just over 10 months.
My advice is no mmatter how temping it is to get the rotivator out DONT!! whilst it saves time early on all you do is spread the problem. The only solution if you want to be organic is to simply roll up your sleeves and start diggin.
I have divided up my plot into managble chunks and will be digging over winter to get out as much as i can. I have also got hold of some hefty black plasic to help as a supressant and help keep the plot less wet.
whatever happens dont get down hearted the felling this year of eating a sunday lunch with my won organic peas, french beans, carrots potatos and apple pie to follow was out opf this world.
Bindweed, you soon learn to love to hate it but it need not be a huge problem. I took over an allotment this spring, it had not been worked for a number of years and as a result had a healthy crop of weeds, bindweed, couch grass, docks, etc.
Approx half the plot had been covered from the previous autumn with a heavy tarpaulin. As I started to dig bind roots were still in evidence under the cover. I removed the dead/dying top growth of all the weeds and then started to carefully dig over the plot. It could take me 30mins to dig a square metre as I painstakingly sifted through each fork full of soil. I was also digging down about a spit and a half to get as much of the root as possible. All roots removed were placed in plastic bags and removed to the tip. (No way were they going on the compost and it can take years for them to rot down.)
After initial digging the first crops went in. I have had very little problem with re-growth so far. You do get some pop up from time to time but these have been pulled/hoed/dug out as soon as they are spotted. Weekly hoeing is the best treatment as you are constantly weakening the plant.
I am now into digging areas where I have harvested the crop, spuds, onions, carrots, etc. Digging now is a breeze. I can dig a 2 metre wide section of the plot in an hour or so. I still get a few roots but hand fulls rather than bag fulls. I fully expect to be still fighting the stuff in 3 or 4 years but good through initial preparation will save you loads of work down the line.
Jerry
I don't know about bindweed, but if you let a weed set seed, then you are at risk of at least 7 years of weeds! Bob Flowerdew said bindweed is beneficial - think some goodies 6 shoe insects like the flowers?
Like most of you I'm digging it out bit by bit but someone out there must have an answer as to how to kill it ...I remember as a kid going round the garden with Saxo salt pulling dandilions out of lawn and sprinkle salt to kill tap root ....may give that a go anyone tried this??
You'd have to chuck a hell of a lot of salt around to get all the bits of bindweed root. And it won't do your soil much good either...
Only salt the main tap root if you found it....and as for soil conditions it will save me salting my dinner ;D...may use pepper aswell.
Back to serious note I do admire the weed but from a distance ie another plot holders..be nice to have an upper hand on it and be able to get ahead of it without double digging and so on.
Some one told me that salt kept their Asparagus bed bind weed free a bit every year.
Tim, glyphosate is a synthesised product which is why it cannot be considered organic. Additionally, research carried out in Denmark indicated that glyphosate can remain active in soil and even ground water- in sandy soils or soils high in phosphorous, where application of glyphosate is followed by rain, it is not absorbed onto cation exchange sites (sandy soils have low CEC's, high P means the active ingredient, a P molecule, is not adsorbed onto soil particles) and means it can pollute groundwater as an active poison. This further affects it's consideration as an organic compound.
OK, John - consider myself caned!
I certainly would never try to call it organic, but will it actually translate from the foliage - which is sprayed or wiped with it - into the ground in sufficient amounts to cause harm? = Tim
No admonishing was intended, Tim, it was just posted for informational purposes. The research in Denmark was done using glyphosate at the recommended rate. The active ingredient was found in run-off from the area where it was applied. Because glyphosate was considered a compound rendered inactive upon contact with the soil prior to this research I am not sure if anyone has come up with (like everything else- an arbitary) safe level of contamination- I would prefer 0 ppb to be considered safe so I will continue to grow and buy organically.
Would try it on Asparagus bed but I would have thought that Asparagus would act as a self suppresant as the root system is also vigorous ?
I seem to remember reading somewhere else on this site that bindweed will not grow where there are marigolds (calendula). Certainly worth trying - they are so pretty and will also attract beneficial insects.
Jak :D
Only problem with marigolds is they are the fav snack of slugs n snails which most cerainly arn't beneficial! >:(
Well surely then they will divert them away from your crops? I've found that it's the Tagetes (French and African Marigolds) that are so loved by slugs and snails - I just can't grow them in my garden, I have a real mollusc problem! :'( However, I have always grown Calendulas .... and no bindweed, although the gardens either side are smothered in the stuff! ;D
Jak :D
Quote from: tim on October 05, 2004, 13:22:02
I really can't see how the use of glyphosphate on the foliage can have any affect on the soil & therefore be non-organic.
And if you do spray the soil, you can still sow or plant immediately. = Tim
Tim, Glyphosate is whats called a 'translocated' herbicide. This means it is absorbed into the whole plant by the plants own circulation system (OK you probably know that). What it also does is become inactive once it enters the soil (or is supposed to anyway). In theory at least it shouldnt harm the soil once it does its job.
Organic growers hough tend to disagre and say that there must be some chemical residue left behind which can then be absorbed into subsequent crops, and if edible then be eaten by us with the food.
Personaly i am not convinced by either arguament, though i try not to use herbicides if i can avoid it, prefering to be chemical free as much as possible.
When it comes to bind weed, 'domestic' weed killers are often not very effectice at killing the plant completely, requiring several applications. in this case perhaps manual removal is better?
On the subject of glyphosate I have posted this link before, but I make no apology for posting it again. All would be organic gardeners contemplating the use of glyphosate should read it
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/acrylamide.php
To make the comment that organic growers believe that glyphosate leaves behind a residue is disingenuous as it implies that they are alone in this belief. Monsanto, the USDA and the EPA all have found a half life in the soil of anything from 3 to 174 days (depending upon various conditions) of the active ingredient. This can be taken up by subsequent crop plants and passed into the food chain resulting in the various problems described in Hugh's link. Other problems, notably in Japan, are discussed in this paper:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:PIFG-H-pxoEJ:www.beyondpesticides.org/pesticides/factsheets/Glyphosate.pdf++%22glyphosate%22&hl=en.
Just found this fact sheet that will tell you all you will need to make your mind up www.infoventures.com/e-hlth/pestcide/glyphos.html (not sure about using it my self but hey each to there own.
With regards to Jak and the marigolds allotmenteer next door and one after are going to be trying out the marigold theory so will warn about the slugs and stuff will print all your helpful ideas to let them decide for them selves but keep your sujestions coming in.
Those of us who farm in alternative manner to that encouraged by global agri-businesses do not view the USDA, with it's very close ties to those businesses, as necessarily a source for all that you need to know about the products and prescribed techniques of those same companies. I found your link a long time ago and after reading it knew there was a lot more to the question of glyphosate than it mentioned (I did some research after hearing a radio news item about suspected pesticide poisoning among farmworkers in California). This article, to me, is an example of the superficiality that the USDA is so often guilty of (I had personal experience of that some fifteen years ago).
I definitely agree about each to their own but at some point someone else's own can become mine too.
Point firmly taken.
I have to say that I have only ever used the stuff in the the 'flower' garden, but I hadn't appreciated that the absorbed product could move into the soil. = Tim
Well after reading my link then your link John I think we are all glad that we are all growing our own Veg, and know exactly what has been put into the soil. Frightening thought as to what is put in the soil for commersial purposes. so to sum up on dealing with bindweed the answer is to dig and keep on digging.
Have to agree with the muncher on this. There are no short cuts to being organic just hard work. That said its live and let live as far as i'm concerned and if plot holders next to me use chemicals good luck to them. I know that my efforts mean that at least for a short period of time i'm in control of what the family eat but i'm also realistic enough to knoew that for much of the year we will be eating fruit and veg that has been grown using chemicals.
Like the views on this board, lottie holders on my site seem to be split on the issue, Those using chemicals are primarily those who have been brought up with chemicals and the younger generation ( I get in just!) who seem to be following the chemical free route. (Not a criticsm in any way its simply a case of what you know, after all if you have gardened successfully with chemicals for 40 years why change?
Think ultiatly as the Mucher says each to their own.
Apologies for the rambling - its is a Monday morning after all.
Not a good argument. I`ve been gardening for over 60 years, for nearly 50 of them I used every chemical that was available, but for the last 15 I have grown purely organically - so the leopard can change its spots.
P.S. Although I must confess to using weed killer on my drive and occasionally in my woodland