I'm about to take on the tenancy for a council owned garage, they've sent me the conditions of tenancy and I'm stuck. I
would be very grateful if there's anyone out there who can help.
One of the conditions is: You must obtain third party insurance in the sum of at least £2,000,000.00 in respect of the garage under which the Council must be completely indemnified against all liability for injury damage or loss howsoever arising.
I've phoned a few insuramce companies and of those that do this kind of insurance they said that the Council can't be completely indemnified as they own the building. I phoned the council and they're not that helpful and said they'd look into it, I phoned again today (a week on) but they still haven't.
Another condition says: You are required at all times during the tenancy to maintain and keep the garage in good repair and condition and properly painted etc to the satisfaction of the council.
The doors are rotten and need replacing, they will definitely not see the year out and have been 'patched up' many times. The council say it's up to me to replace the doors. Can this be right ?
If you sign the tenancy agreement you are accepting the garage in its current condition & based on what you have written with regard to conditions in the tenancy agreement about maintenance then you would be responsible for replacing the doors if required. You can refuse to sign the agreement until they carry out necessary repairs or at least give you something in writing stating that they will do so detailing what work will be carried out by them. However they may withdraw the offer of the garage if you refuse to sign the tenancy agreement.
As for the insurance that all depends on what response you get from the council.
Thanks Baccy Man.
As soon as I can get an answer out of the council I'll post it.
Generally speaking tho' is it possible to be completely indemnified against loss or damage howsoever arising if it's on your property ? If it were a house, wouldn't the landlord be responsible for the bricks and mortar and anything that happens with them ?
Normal practice would be that the council would have buildings insurance & you would have the option of contents insurance & in certain circumstances public liability insurance wether or not you took that option would be your decision.
You could ask Trading Standards. The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 affects tenancy agreements. As I understand it a term that requires you to return the property to the landlord in a better state than you received it is automatically unfair. Tenancy agreements are also required to be in plain English and I can't clearly understand what "You must obtain third party insurance in the sum of at least £2,000,000.00 in respect of the garage under which the Council must be completely indemnified against all liability for injury damage or loss howsoever arising" means.
I doubt I'd bother with contents insurance as it'd only be me that loses out if anything happened. I would like public liability insurance, but again is this my responsibility ? If kids climbed on the roof, fell off and damaged themselves is it not the owner's responsibility ?
Thanks
Unwashed...thanks for that.
I agree that it does seem to be unfair to improve the council's property at my expense and that's what I argued. I was told to 'patch them up' , but they're beyond repair and very insecure. There's the added complication that the doors would then be mine and in theory I could take them with me when the tenancy ends. I'm fairly confident the council would have something to say about that !
If push comes to shove, I'll buy the bloomin' doors, it's the insurance thing that troubles me and like you said it's difficult to know exactly what they're after. I'll keep pestering them, but I've been at it for 3 weeks now and they're not exactly in a hurry !
Quote from: Heartysoup on July 02, 2009, 16:44:29I would like public liability insurance, but again is this my responsibility ? If kids climbed on the roof, fell off and damaged themselves is it not the owner's responsibility?
No, if there's any negligence it's yours - Occupier's Liability Act 1984 - but they'd still have to prove negligence.
Right, so it looks like I need public liabilty insurance for sure, what about the bricks and mortar ? If the kids burnt it down, who's responsible then ?
With houses, the freeholder (in this case the council) always have to have the buildings insurance, never the tenant or leaseholder...
Quote from: OllieC on July 02, 2009, 17:39:20
With houses, the freeholder (in this case the council) always have to have the buildings insurance, never the tenant or leaseholder...
That's what I understand, but for non-residential property I've seen that it's usual that the tenant pays the buildings insurance premium and the landlord arranges cover, but it's my guess that the landlord can stipulate whatever they want.
Ask the council which insurance company they use. usually Zurich. Then ask them for a quote!
Excellent idea BrianK, ta for that.
It's clearly not a straight forward matter given that it's rented, but non residential etc. I'm going to have to do some more homework, I'll start with trading standards, see if I can decipher the terms of the tenancy and take it from there. I'll be back....
It's been really good to have you lot to bounce this off, thanks.
If an office requires bringing up to a satisfactory standard it is common for the landlord to either pay some or all of the cost or the work or to provide a rent free period (which comes to much the same thing).
As already pointed out it is manifestly unfair to require you to improve the premises without any quid pro quo, so perhaps a proposal of a rent free period will resolve that matter.
I think the situation is like this:
Any problems at all are your responsibility unless it is the Councils responsibility, in which case it is your responsibility to ensure that they are covered by insurance.
I thought that it was not possible to insure something that belongs to someone else. We contantly get this quoted to us when we try and insure a car belonging to my handicapped daughter.
You need to have an "insurable interest" in the item insured - so it's normal to insure the life of your partner, for example, even though you don't actually own them (normally!). Also in terms of ownership, when you rent property you are normally the owner for the duration of the lease... Even if you own your own house, you are still only a tenant (you have a freehold tenancy) so it's a bit different to cars.
Well after lots of phone calls and reading up it turns out the council are responsible for insuring the building and I'm responsible for the contents only. Non residential or otherwise, the council cannot be indemnified if they own the building.
The council have now said they shouldn't have sent me that set of terms and conditions of tenancy !! They're paying for the doors too.
So, it just goes to show it's always worth questioning things and digging your heels in when you know you're right.
Result!
Nice one Heartysoup, the problem is that most councils get away with murder and if you don't as you say dig your heels in the barstards get away with murder. >:( >:( >:( ;D ;D ;D
Nice to see someone winning.
Hi
I rent a council garage and I don't have insurance of any sort for it (they never said i needed it and there is nothing in the agreement that says so and the council do all the repairs for it the have just done all the the garages with new roofs and a lick of paint they look nice and tidy...... I'm in shock as to what your council are asking for you to do :o
It's that thing about assuming big organisations 'must be right', a bit like doctors being gods. Anyroad, if you don't ask, mither, question (and sometimes make a complete pain in the arse of yourself ) you don't get !!
Power to the people !!
Wolfie