I have been looking again at methods of growing tomatoes other than in open soil. Traditionaly i have grown all my tomatoes, inside and out in large pots, having rather spurned growbags as inadequate for my needs. A couple of alternative methods have peaked my curiosity, both variations on a theme. the first is Ring Culture, which has always looked interesting but never been too sure about how it actualy works or what sort of results it produces. I am also not sure if it would work in my green house. The second method is really a hybrid of 2 others (ring culture and growbag cultivation), and is of more interest. It involves using ordinary growbags but instead of planting into the growbag direct you fit a ring culture style planting ring (or bottomless flowerpot) into the top of the bag and plant the tomato into that. This gives the plant a deeper root run than the growbag alone.
I tried something like the second method a couple of years ago but used intact flowerpots plunged into the growbags , the idea being the growbag would 'extend' the pot and give the plant a bit more stability when the plant rooted into the growbag. later in the season i was able to water the plant via the growbag and feed it into the pot, similar to a mature plant grown by ring culture. This method had limited sucess, since the pots still had their bottoms on the plants could not root fully into the growbag and so could not gain full benefit from growing in this way. So the following year (last year) I went back to the old method of large pots, which was fine but the plants seemed to grow too lushly and became top heavy.
I am considering trying the growbag + pot method again, partly as a result of last years problems and partly because i still feel the method has merit. This time though i plan to take the plunge and cut the bases off the pots and do it properly! I was wondering if anyone had tried this method and if so how did you get on? What size of 'pot' would be best to use with a standard growbag? I have some old black 9"/5 litre pots from the garden centre and i was considering using these. Would they be big enough or should i go a bit bigger? I have seen purpose made 'grow rings' in a catalogue and on 'The Beechgrove Garden' TV programme, but these look a bit expensive, and i am sure I can recycle a few pots and get the same result!
Any advice/feedback would be appreciated
I use grow bags (just because I don't have much soil in my greenhouse) but I adapt them slightly for the reasons you mentioned. I cut each bag in half across the narrow part and stand each half on it's end, a bit like a flower pot. I find this gives the plant more space for roots and gives easier watering. In an experiment last year the plants grown like this did as well as the plants in the ground and much better then the ones planted in the usual growbag way!
On a recent visit to Cambo house in Fife I saw they were growing tomatoes in straw bales with virtually no soil at all. Apparently you treat the bale for a couple of weeks beforehand with a fertilizer and water to start the decomposition of the bale. You then plant the tomato plant directly into the bale and as it grows it is fed by the rotting straw and heat and it holds much more moisture. If I had the space I might give it a go!
I have been using the bottomless pot plus grow bag method for years. I feed into the pot and water into the bag. I always get a good crop. The 3 pots sit in the grow bag as you would plant into the bag without pots. I use to have a greenhouse with several bags with pots along the sunny side. Now we have downsized I have mini greenhouses. There is probably a way to get a heavier crop but this method works well for me.
I've used the bottomless pot on growbag method for several years now. Last year I used much bigger pots, but interestingly the crop was not as good so I'm going back to my smaller 1l size again this year.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/dlp133/Home%20garden/Aug2007022.jpg)
I use growbags, but rather than cut a ring or take the bottom off a pot I cut the middle (fat) section out of a 4 pint milk carton to plant the tomato plants through. Has the same effect and I get quite good crops considering I only grow outdoors.
Where theres a will theres always a way! ;D ;D
Quote from: Deb P on May 27, 2009, 16:10:00
I've used the bottomless pot on growbag method for several years now. Last year I used much bigger pots, but interestingly the crop was not as good so I'm going back to my smaller 1l size again this year.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/dlp133/Home%20garden/Aug2007022.jpg)
That's encouraging,Deb, as I've used 1l pots with the same method but wasworrying that they are too small. My other worry is that although the plants look healthy, the compost in the pots seems to dry out very quickly compared to the compost in the growbags. Does this matter?
Over the years I have used a few methods namely; Greenhouse border, Ring culture, large pots and outdoors on the plot and find each has its + / - 's
1) My favourite is in the greenhouse bed;
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd27/tgalmanac/May%202009/P1090694.jpg)
2) Ring culture;
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd27/tgalmanac/May%202009/P1090703.jpg)
Note the concrete floor!
Rather than use growbags or expensive compost I have fitted a timber kerb to the floor to form a shallow bed and I fill this with farmyard manure/home made compost. Then I sit the rings (sewage pipe offcuts) on the shallow beds.
This effectively iswhat you are doing when you use grow bags, only it is less expensive and you have the potential for a longer root run.
3) My daughter has a stone backyard so I knock up a few 10"-12" pots of 33% farmyard manure and 66% potting compost (own brew)
4) I have grown on straw as well in the past but it is a bit messy I find but the cropping is generally excellent.
This is the method I used; http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Growing%20on%20straw/Growing%20on%20straw.htm (http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Growing%20on%20straw/Growing%20on%20straw.htm)
Quote from: wetandcold on May 27, 2009, 13:41:04
I use grow bags (just because I don't have much soil in my greenhouse) but I adapt them slightly for the reasons you mentioned. I cut each bag in half across the narrow part and stand each half on it's end, a bit like a flower pot. I find this gives the plant more space for roots and gives easier watering. In an experiment last year the plants grown like this did as well as the plants in the ground and much better then the ones planted in the usual growbag way!
On a recent visit to Cambo house in Fife I saw they were growing tomatoes in straw bales with virtually no soil at all. Apparently you treat the bale for a couple of weeks beforehand with a fertilizer and water to start the decomposition of the bale. You then plant the tomato plant directly into the bale and as it grows it is fed by the rotting straw and heat and it holds much more moisture. If I had the space I might give it a go!
We used to grow cucumbers and tomatoes on straw but there are a couple of things to be wary of. You can get a lack of nitrogen for the plants as the straw decomposing using up nitrogen and we also found that sometimes if weedkillers had been used on the cereal crop there can be traces let out when the straw decomposes.
My FIL would grow his toms in small bottomless pots (6-8") sat on stones in a water container. Very little soil/compost was involved. He always had excellent yeilds. A professional grower friend had the pewniest, tallest tom plants I've ever seen. They were planted in the greenhouse borders, he also had excellent yields. There's got to be more magic involved then pot size?
Thanks for the replies. It seems there are just about as many ways to grow tomatoes as there are tomato growers! Good info, but its still about as clear as mud as to what is the best method to go for.
I had forgotten the one using a cut in half growbag as a pot. That was also shown on Beechgrove. Thing is with that, you would need about half as many again growbags to grow the same number of plants, compared to the traditional method of using growbags. I guess there anre pros asnd cons of all methods. With the pot and growbag method you have your growbags, but still have to buy a load of potting compost to fill the pots! Could get expensive if you grow a lot of tomatoes. It must have to be a trade off between economics and giving the plants the best conditions.
I wish i could grow direct in the soil, but its a space problem. I dont have decent soil where I have space to grow them outside, and my greenhouse is used for propagation as well as tomato growing. its just not big enough to have a dedicated border for tomatoes and still have room for staging and a potting bench!
I am encouraged by the size of pots some of you use with growbags, although i would think that 1litre was just a bit on the small size. i use 7.5 and 10 litre pots for the outdoor tomatoes, even then i wonder if they are big enough! I have loads of '2s' (2 litre pots) so if i go for that method i might try that first just to see. Anything larger and i would have to go shopping...... :o
Thanks again for the info and advice.
I think there is a trade off between growing lush, healthy looking plants, and getting a good yield. Too much water and the tomatoes are tasteless and you get a lot of foliage at the expense of fruit.
I like Tee Gee's set up, and as mentioned on a previous thread am considering alternatives to using grow bags this year. I don't want permanent beds, so I'm considering using either IKEA bags or bootliner bags (£2 from B&Q) made of the same stuff to give me a temporary container to plant into with a good depth and re usuable in later years. Haven't decided yet though! ;D
There is no doubt that you get the best results from growing in the ground. Not all are able to go with this method so you have to grow within whats available.
I do more or less the same as TEE GEE but i use ring culture because it creates more roots from the nodes so more roots more feed to the plant.
[attachment=1]
I also use buckets again with ring culture, from one grow bag making my own brew using well rotted manure i get three bucket fulls.
[attachment=2]
Quote from: pippy on May 27, 2009, 16:13:03
I use growbags, but rather than cut a ring or take the bottom off a pot I cut the middle (fat) section out of a 4 pint milk carton to plant the tomato plants through.
I'd love to see a photo :)
Deb P. What is the diameter of the pots you use? I know you said 1ltr but not sure which ones these are. ???
I have always grown them in those flower buckets from morrisons. I have had plenty of fruit but think that grow bags and small pots would be easier. If, as you say, the yield is good, then that is the main thing, isn't it? :)
They are about 8-9" in diameter, and about the same depth.
Another thing I have found that makes a difference is virtually stopping anywatering in mid September....it helps the fruit ripen and I kept my plants going almost until Christmas that way, all the fruit ripened!
Ring culture has worked well for me for the past few years and I'm doing it on a slightly larger scale this year. I've made a shallow wooden frame inside an old brick cold frame, stapled some black plastic into it, filled that with gravel, put 18 bottomless 9" pots into the gravel and planted my tomatoes into them. I have soaked the gravel so that the plants' roots will draw up water through capillary action. When the first trusses have set I will feed the plants through the surface of the compost in the usual way, otherwise I just need to ensure that the gravel is kept wet.
I have a useful article about this method which I can post to anyone who wants to PM me with their name and address.
Update: After considering the options and advice I decided to go for the growbag plus cut off 5 litre pot option. A bit fiddly to set up, but looks good and hopefully should work well. I have 5 plants growing like this, 3 in one bag 2, plus a cucumber plant (planted the same way) in a second grow bag. As a control I have a 6th tomato plant growing in the usual pot.
To take (personal) experimentation further i am also trying ou the string method for supporting them rather than canes. Seemed a good opportunity to try this technique out too.