How often do you see in the press about the benefits system being fiddled more often than not the people in question are dragged through the courts and shamed even locked up, PM's and MP's should follow and be sacked,
It was ever thus... the rich embezel (sp?) millions and get away with it... some chav takes a couple of thousand and gets locked up... :-X
we had a conversation along this lines yesterday at work, if you robbed a bank and got caught then offered to give the money back they wouldnt let you just walk away would they, is it any different?
There are people everywhere 'fiddling the system' my ex-husband is a university lecturer (now Professor) who also has a job as a consultant and manages to hide most of his income from the second job. He had an affair while I was still married to him with a married ex-colleague and when she moved to another continent with her husband my ex made long international phone calls to her at work paid for by the university...though the university does not know and I discovered a long time after they were personal calls made under the guise of work!
I suspect this sort of thing goes on all the time, politicians are not the only guilty parties using public money for themselves.
One of my friends was a secretary to a NHS bigwig. She used to submit his expense claims - which were always more than her salary - he lived off his expenses, didn't have to touch his salary.
The killer is that its the MPs who talk about getting the masses back to work by means testing benefits such as disability etc. And they are usually the first to point out abuses of the benefit system and usually work quite quickly to remove loopholes. Yet they engineered a system for themselves which was lucrative, but not content with it they proceeded to abuse it to a level which would put most benefit fiddlers to shame.
I doubt there is anything the police can do about abusing a system but staying within the rules. The party leaders are the ones who need to make them pay the expenses back, review and put in place a moral expenses policy and increase scrutiny on future claims.
But evading capital gains tax on second homes is somethig else. All those MPs who flipped homes to avoid tax should be fully investigated by Fraud Squad.
As said on question time last week...... They are only discussing it and on about changing the rules because they got caught. I am sure the rules will be changed to allow them to claim something else to keep lining their pockets.
MPs should be provided a set accommodation in London, not left free to pick and choose the most lucrative. What about MPs doing a house share. 4 of them in a 4 bedroom house for example, still have a room each. That way the taxpayer pays the bills for one residence not 4. They are always on about carshare etc sooooo.......
It's bad enough that they have a heck of a ceiling on the amount. It's a scandle that they abused the system on top of it. That abuse is morally wrong, but those MP's who profited from it and pocketed the gain are thieves.
And who the heck is responsible for 'OK'ing the payments? Now it's come to light, we can all see how wrong it is, so within the rules or not, why wasn't it stopped by the 'Paymaster?'
I think they should change the MP's claim system. They should submit claims for all the things they want, and then have a National Lottery thing on saturday night when they draw names off the Electoral Register to pay for them.
So, for instance -" Congratulations RT in Chester - you've got the honour of buying Hazel Blears a new home Cinema sytem..."
This will reconnect the general public with politics I think like nothing else
And to make it more interesting - the cheating ********** have to come round personally to try and get the ******** money
When my son was self-employed and claimed expenses, he used to go to the garage for petrol and always buy a mars bar, either for himself or his son, very fond of mars bars he was when young. His accountant gave him a right telling off as the mars bar was on the same itemised bill as the petrol. He was told he had to get a bill for the petrol, which he could claim back, and pay for his mars bar in cash (his own money). Most companies check their employees expense claims as I suppose it is quite tempting to add a few items to the bill, not that I would or have been in the position to do so. I do the banking/secretary for a club (unpaid) and often don't claim for the odd few postage stamps, or the paper, ink etc. for the computer. Big items of expense, files etc I do. If I do a big printing job or a load of photocopying obviously claim and get receipts. With all the people in trouble with paying their mortgages and losing their jobs it is not suprising that people are annoyed and MP's having second homes and selling them at a profit. Better stop here or will get annoyed and get a headache. At least they got a lot of flack on Question Time last night and should be ashamed of themselves, they are lucky to have big houses and moats, tennis courts and swimming pools, that most people would love.
The Daily Telegraph is onto a winner in every way with this stuff, being a paper for posh people
On Wednesday it had a full page on the News bit -Tory PM Claims £2000 For Cleaning Out His Moat!
and then today there's a full page piece in the Lifestyle bit - How Do You Look After Your Moat ? ;D
Everybody is so indignant!. I bet most would have their noses in the trough if they were given the chance. We are only being led by a media frenzy. Hands up anybody who can honestly say they have never had a 'perk' from the job.
I notice a lot on here saying 'grab a grant', 'get the council to do it', 'we want free compost' etc etc. Well somebody has to pay for it somewhere, why should we be intitled to rate payers money to pursue our hobbys.
Everybodies at it, some are lucky that they are not in the public view.
Quote from: ACE on May 16, 2009, 06:49:47
Everybody is so indignant!. I bet most would have their noses in the trough if they were given the chance. We are only being led by a media frenzy. Hands up anybody who can honestly say they have never had a 'perk' from the job.
I notice a lot on here saying 'grab a grant', 'get the council to do it', 'we want free compost' etc etc. Well somebody has to pay for it somewhere, why should we be intitled to rate payers money to pursue our hobbys.
Everybodies at it, some are lucky that they are not in the public view.
True. But, if I got caught taking that "perk" I would expect to get sacked. The difference I feel here is the total lack of consistency.
Chav - Punishment and MP - within the rules but morally questionable.
Grants are there to be taken. Free compost, water etc. I see your point. But I can think of far more examples for true wastes of money and if they contribute to a healthy lifestyle and are for the commmunity then I think thats ok.
Not many perks in Secondary teaching... the odd bit of chalk, some A4 paper... ::)
Excuse me ACE, but the Council OFFER free compost here in Enfield, London. I don't think they could sell it as the quality is not too good, but I suppose they have a surplus and are only too glad to deliver it to allotments. Anyway it is probably what we put in our green bins, so 'what goes around comes around'. Just off to check my moat to see if it needs cleaning and perhaps I can claim that off the Council. These politicians if you can call them that 'are taking the p..s'. One thing, and probably the only thing I will agree with you on, is the fact that the newspapers love it and they are making money out of the story. I don't buy newspapers but have heard quite enough about it on LBC. Had to escape to the computer as the TV tonight is dreadful. On a personal note I do not think I would be happy if I thought anything I had 'fiddled the system', although I will gladly buy from charity shops and use items people have thrown away, but always ask first and they seem pleased that someone can make use of them.
Have to disagree that "everybody's at it". I work in the public sector, and there have been times, for example, that I haven't even claimed mileage that I was entitled to on the admittedly rare occasions that I have to visit a client at home, never mind tried to upgrade my personal possessions on the company's buck. :)
I agree it's been a media feeding frenzy. But as someone said in a column in a paper today, a system that won't stand up to public scrutiny isn't exactly a good system, is it? I've long been cynical about politicians - I think many of them go into politics for good reasons, but the system they then get into can poison their bloodstream. They start thinking that this kind of behaviour is the norm, and that the ones who don't do it are the strange ones. Breathing rarefied air over a long period of time, as they do, does damage to the brain cells, I reckon.
The thing that's made my eyebrows raise most has been the ease with which MPs who have been caught out claiming large sums of money that they didn't oughta have been able to repay thousands of pounds, just like that. That reinforces the idea that these claims weren't reimbursement for out of pocket expenses, but simply a way of building their bank accounts.
Maybe we should move Parliament out of London? Then living costs wouldn't be nearly so high? How about commandeering one of those prison ships, and keeping them all out on the North Sea during the length of each parliamentary term? ;)
Quote from: Borlotti on May 16, 2009, 21:35:58
Excuse me ACE, but the Council OFFER free compost here in Enfield, London. I don't think they could sell it as the quality is not too good, but I suppose they have a surplus and are only too glad to deliver it to allotments.
So the delivery drivers do not get paid then! As I said, it is rate payers money being used for your hobby. Don't get me wrong, I am all for it.But I am willing to bet there would be loads of complaints from flat dwellers with no gardens, if this came to light in the local rag. As you can also bet this would also be published under a suitably indignant headline.
Quote from: saddad on May 16, 2009, 21:08:49
Not many perks in Secondary teaching... the odd bit of chalk, some A4 paper... ::)
...and many teachers spend a fair bit of their own money on resources that they need but would otherwise have to do without. I certainly do. More fool me perhaps, but it makes my life easier so is worth it ;D
I agree with ACE. Many people would (and do!) do it if they feel they can get away with it. Certainly whenever I've been involved with people claiming business expenses, for very person that doesn't claim, there are many more who claim for everything they think they can get away with. Sometimes *just* personal phone calls, a few pens, an excessive bar / food bill, extra few miles / higher rate mileage..... other times £££s. Should we be surprised that MPs are cashing in too? We seem to expect our public figures to be squeaky clean but that is never likely to be a reality without robust systems in place.
The system needs an overhaul without a doubt. Accommodation that comes with the post might be a good start. I can see I probably wouldn't be impressed confined to regulation bedsit if I were an MP who had a constituency miles away that meant I'd end up pretty much living there for long stretches with nowhere to put my family though. But then I have been in a position where I had to live at the opposite end of the country from OH due to work - at our expense. Granted, we didn't *need* 2 properties to fulfil one job, but the result is the same and lots of people are in that position.
I'm not averse to those proven to have taken the pee to be prosecuted /sacked either. All of this `oops, sorry, accounting error/oversight, I'll pay it back' is, frankly, embarrassing ::). You take your chances & suffer the consequences.
A lady in my past home town nicked £3 from a charity tin which she was in charge of. She claimed it cost her that amount in bus fares to travel round the area collecting. She was disgraced...in court...ordered to repay it, was fined £80 and had to do 120 hours community work and told that 'Those in a position of trust should be respectful of their position'.
Shouldn't those 'Respected Members of Society' in the news at the moment being guilty of dipping into the pot be treated in an equal manner?
Come the election I`m Voting for Guy Fawkes
The only person to enter Parliament with honourable intentions... ::)
and he was a foreigner and a sub-contractor!! ::)
Quote from: tonybloke on May 17, 2009, 23:54:40
and he was a foreigner and a sub-contractor!! ::)
;D ;D ;D