Allotments 4 All

Does anyone have any advice how to stop other people's cat from using my garden as a toilet??

Tried cat pepper, but just been out and caught one of them weeing on my borders, the wee does not bother me, but the poo does!!!

Have no cats of my own, but seem surrounded by other peoples!!

Any advice gratefully recieved.

It'll compost down eventually - just dig it in.  Or get a cat.

a shotgun usually works!! ;)

Hope georgie don't see that post Tony..........boy are you in trouble ;D

cats will be attracted to any bare ground for a toilet and if have just sown seed in striaght lines it is a  real pain to see them all mucked up. the solution is to cover your newly sown ground with twigs and that will stop them. holly is the best but anything twiggy laid across the bed will do. once the seedlings are a good size then the cats wont bother.

Chicken wire laid on the ground will help as will keeping the earth wet as much as possible.  Clippings from rose or brambles are also good.
I haven't tired it but you can buy pellets of Lion Poo and there are loads of chemical based products.  Cats also dislike citrus smells so orange peel and the like can help.
I have hear that dog wee or even people wee will put them off but it may put your neighbours off as well.
If you really want to go the whole hog there are infra red detectors that you can link to a hose so they get a squirt when they get near ...

Quote from: tonybloke on May 11, 2009, 19:06:04
a shotgun usually works!! ;)

As does planting a load of lilies but the owners complain.

Quote from: tonybloke on May 11, 2009, 19:06:04
a shotgun usually works!! ;)

I saw that - not nice  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Quote from: Baccy Man on May 11, 2009, 19:43:13

Quote from: tonybloke on May 11, 2009, 19:06:04
a shotgun usually works!! ;)

As does planting a load of lilies but the owners complain.

And that is even nastier. Lilies are highly toxic to cats, they die a horrible and painful death. You are going on my ignore list for a totally nasty comment.

http://www.vetbase.co.uk/information/lilies-are-toxic-cats.php (http://www.vetbase.co.uk/information/lilies-are-toxic-cats.php)

I'm afraid cats and their owners have  minds and rules of their own which they think everyone should abide to like its ok for my cat to crap on your garden because it is a cat, you name it we have tried it to stop cats crapping on our garden, these days I just pick the stuff up and throw back on this particular persons property, I certainly would not advocate to shoot cats because the courts take a very dim view, one local chap who shot a cat was recently dragged through the local magistrates court named and shamed and then had the local cat lovers on his back,

i have had so much trouble with cats in the past but now i have solved the problem i got a dog lol  ;D


i didnt know that lillies are poisonous to cats !

Must agree about having a decent dog when I had lurchers we did not have a cat problem, but when new neighbours moved in going back many years ago they had two cats I warned them right away what would happen if their cats came in to our garden one did but only once,

How charming :(

Quote from: debster on May 11, 2009, 19:52:05
i didnt know that lillies are poisonous to cats !

Most vets have posters telling cat owners lilies are deadly to cats.

Some cat owners think that gives them the right to dictate what you can or can't grow in your garden. The couple 4 doors down from me have requested on numerous occasions that I remove the small clump of lilies growing near my pond as their cat may brush against them when it comes round to catch, torture & mutilate the frogs & toads living in my garden.

There is a more comprehensive list of plants toxic to cats here.
http://www.cfainc.org/articles/plants.html
To save further misunderstandings I should point out I am not recommending people even consider planting anything on this list such as lilies, potatoes, tomatoes, privet, holly, ivy, tulips, snowdrops, marigolds, narcissus etc... as cat owners may assume you are attempting to poison their pets & complain about the selection of plants in your garden.

Well I did warn the people but at least I did not get my shotgun out the gun cupboard,

im sure its the smell of dog wee that has stopped the cats cos he has never come across any of them when he has been out there, would you like me to bottle it and send you some lol

Baccy Man,
                   That's exactly my argument with cat owners who some god given right for their cats to come and crap all over the place, then they have the cheek to tell you what you can have in your garden, ::)

I have responded to this type of post before.

If it really is so important to you why don;t you use a hosepipe.The cat will not like it an dwill soon get the message they are not welcome.

It is almost impossible to contain a cat as people well know. :(

What is a bunch of lillies compared to the life of the cat??

Thanks for all your info...will try some of the safer options!!!

I dont mind scooping it up and disposing of it, but didnt see it yesterday and got a handfull when i was planting out...YUK!!  Luckily had gloves on...!   And i cant keep the back door open 'cos they come in the house!!!

olicat x

Please explain.  I have always had cats, and never knew that Lillies were toxic to cats.  Why, they don't eat them. My wonderful, stray cat, is very, very good and only goes to the toilet in one place, where I haven't planted anything.  If he doesn't bury it, I do (what is the problem).  The only thing is do not let the grandchildren dig in the garden as not sure if the poo that might appear might contain disease.  When we had a dog, one of his pees killed everything.  Give me cats everytime.  Most cats are very clean, I must agree got a might annoyed when my cat used to dig up all the bulbs, seeds I had planted but he was trying to help or do a poo.  Most cats do like to dig a very big hole and bury it.  Anything precious that I plant in the garden I protect with wire or netting as I just know my cat will chose that spot to dig.  But he has never, ever, touch wood, been dirty in the house, so I think he is a very clean cat, and does sometimes go next door but she also loves him to bits, inspite of his poo.

our front garden is pea shingle, and the cats were using it as a litter tray until.....

I started pouring my urnie on it, apparently male urine puts them off using it as a toilet, I was skeptical when someone told me but IT WORKED!!! (obviously I used a bucket and wasnt running round the garden playing Firemen!!!)

And apperently Womens Urine is a good weedkiller, something to do with it being more acidic!!!! but the missus is not willing to wee in a bucket so I can try  :o

I always use old tea bags with something smelly on. First water the area to get rid of some of the smell and then put lots of used tea bags down over the area with lemon or obas (not sure i spelt that right but the stuff you use if you have a cold) oil on them. Smells nice to you, horrible to cats and no shot guns needed  ;D

lilies are only toxic if the pollen from the floweres gets on there fur then when they clean themselves they digest this and has the affect of poisen to cats very dangerous life threatening even if not cought in time
what i sugest is as i do when the flowere opens they have pollen stems with pollen on the tips i cut these off carefully its a small price to pay for  to save the life of my and other cats comming into contact with them 

Quote from: olicat on May 11, 2009, 20:44:50
Thanks for all your info...will try some of the safer options!!!

I dont mind scooping it up and disposing of it, but didnt see it yesterday and got a handfull when i was planting out...YUK!!  Luckily had gloves on...!   And i cant keep the back door open 'cos they come in the house!!!

olicat x

Hi there - your user name hasn't escaped my sense of irony on this post  ;D  ;D  ;D

you can buy something in the garden centre called "get off my garden" it is a green jelly type crsytal which you squirt about and after a few days the cats will poo elsewhere as they hate the smell. I have used it as hate cat poo and it worked a treat, cats are fine but I do object to putting my hand in their poo and you shouldnt eat veg that has been poo'd on in case of toxoplasmosis (or so my vet freind tells me).

we have two cats and they never go out so at least know one can complain about them......... :)

Quote from: Baccy Man on May 11, 2009, 20:14:51

Quote from: debster on May 11, 2009, 19:52:05
i didn't know that Lillie's are poisonous to cats !

Most vets have posters telling cat owners lilies are deadly to cats.

Some cat owners think that gives them the right to dictate what you can or can't grow in your garden. The couple 4 doors down from me have requested on numerous occasions that I remove the small clump of lilies growing near my pond as their cat may brush against them when it comes round to catch, torture & mutilate the frogs & toads living in my garden.

There is a more comprehensive list of plants toxic to cats here.
http://www.cfainc.org/articles/plants.html
To save further misunderstandings I should point out I am not recommending people even consider planting anything on this list such as lilies, potatoes, tomatoes, privet, holly, ivy, tulips, snowdrops, marigolds, narcissus etc... as cat owners may assume you are attempting to poison their pets & complain about the selection of plants in your garden.

Well i wasn't aware of all those potential harmfull things for cats the only thing that bothers me if i was to follow the suggestion of the list i wouldn't have anything in my garden or the street i live in  

Quoteour front garden is pea shingle

I think they are hard-wired to seek out that crunchy feeling under their paws. I had to get rid of my bean-bag chair for this reason!

Re Lilies, they can lick the pollen off their fur. Good tip to snip off the pollen stems.

I dont know how anyone can want to harm these beautiful creatures..

I love cats, we lost both of ours a few years ago(illness), I've many of the flowers in my garden, luckily ours used our garden so no probs with the neighbours  ;D
I kept a lovely, soft soil part behind a planter which they liked..just think, no cats, more rats and mice  :o ;D

We have a cat and two dogs, the cat messes in the raised bed and then the dog digs it up for a snack!

Quote from: JoeCocker on May 12, 2009, 08:44:02
We have a cat and two dogs, the cat messes in the raised bed and then the dog digs it up for a snack!

at this time of the morning is there a need for this trying to eat my breakfast  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :P

Quote from: shadowdragon on May 11, 2009, 23:04:42
our front garden is pea shingle, and the cats were using it as a litter tray until.....

I started pouring my urnie on it, apparently male urine puts them off using it as a toilet, I was skeptical when someone told me but IT WORKED!!! (obviously I used a bucket and wasnt running round the garden playing Firemen!!!)

Works for foxes too  :)

PS If applying in a conventional manner,  remember to turn off any outdoor alarm lights beforehand - they invariably come on at just the wrong moment.

Quote from: daileg on May 12, 2009, 08:03:59
lilies are only toxic if the pollen from the floweres gets on there fur then when they clean themselves they digest this and has the affect of poisen to cats very dangerous life threatening even if not cought in time
what i sugest is as i do when the flowere opens they have pollen stems with pollen on the tips i cut these off carefully its a small price to pay for  to save the life of my and other cats comming into contact with them 

According to our vet all parts of the plant are toxic. Some cats like eating leaves, especially Siamese for some reason - it's not just the pollen.

More top tips....i don't have cats, my name is a combination if my youngest daughter's names...Oliva Catherine, and not 'cos i am a cat lover!!  Equally, although i do not have or want cats, i do not want to harm them in my quest to be cat poo free!!

as an owner of 3 non free range cats I am a little miffed at the generalisations regarding cat owners in some posts here!

I really don't like other peoples cats in my garden, i don't like digging up cat poo and i rather like birds. I find tea tree oil on a pumice stone helps to keep cats away from plants i don't want digging up, as does my super soaker (when I am in - hosepipe is all very well when you're home but when i'm at work what to do?). I've also identified the holes in the fence they use ato enter and leave the garden and by covering them with chicken wire i've disrupted the cat route through the garden and we get a lot less  now.

How on earth can you have 3 non free range cats.  Do they never go out.  My cat loves indoors in winter and loves the sun in summer.  Sleeps on the shed roof, sometimes he goes to the toilet next door, sometimes in my garden, he doesn't understand English so doesn't think he is doing anything wrong.

Quote from: olicat on May 12, 2009, 18:29:39
More top tips....i don't have cats, my name is a combination if my youngest daughter's names...Oliva Catherine, and not 'cos i am a cat lover!!  Equally, although i do not have or want cats, i do not want to harm them in my quest to be cat poo free!!

Hi OlicCat - I kind of guessed it would be a combination of names (husband/wife/kids/pets) but I couldn't resist a cheap gag. Sorry  :-[ 
Hope you manage to sort something out with the suggestions on here, I've used crushed moth balls sprinkled on beds before now (they do pen and ink a bit), seemed to stop them for a while, but not long term
1066

Hi Olicat there is various methods and devices some are good some are c**p there is one or teo i havent tried did some research this is what ive come up with http://www.jparkers.co.uk/Index.cfm?fuseaction=product.standard&continueaction=category.search&search=cat%20shoo&producttype_id=48953 and the second one is http://www.crocus.co.uk/product/_/tools/pest-control/silent-roar-lion-manure/classid.2000004185/

Our neighbour's cats don't come in our garden because Vera and Graham (Border Terriers) are on constant cat-watch duty.  But at the allotments we have some feral cats and nobody complains because they help the kestrels to keep the mice down. 
I didn't know lilies were poisonous to cats either.

Quote from: Borlotti on May 12, 2009, 21:09:26
How on earth can you have 3 non free range cats.  Do they never go out.  My cat loves indoors in winter and loves the sun in summer.  Sleeps on the shed roof, sometimes he goes to the toilet next door, sometimes in my garden, he doesn't understand English so doesn't think he is doing anything wrong.

this is how. well, this is the old one, haven't any photos of the new one at this house. They go in and out as they please, lay in the sun, stalk butterflies but don't get to kill birds.

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/43/353729142_b04b6043a9.jpg)

it makes an excellent support for climbing squashes as well.

I like the birdfeeder just outside your cat house......Tv for cats ;D

Quote from: legless on May 20, 2009, 17:21:05
this is how. well, this is the old one, haven't any photos of the new one at this house. They go in and out as they please, lay in the sun, stalk butterflies but don't get to kill birds.

it makes an excellent support for climbing squashes as well.

That's fabulous!  Did you make it?  I don't have cats but if I did I would worry they would get lost or run over so this sort of thing looks perfect.

Quote from: Squash64 on May 20, 2009, 19:50:27

Quote from: legless on May 20, 2009, 17:21:05
this is how. well, this is the old one, haven't any photos of the new one at this house. They go in and out as they please, lay in the sun, stalk butterflies but don't get to kill birds.

it makes an excellent support for climbing squashes as well.

That's fabulous!  Did you make it?  I don't have cats but if I did I would worry they would get lost or run over so this sort of thing looks perfect.

i built it, but the 6 x 3 mesh panels were bought ready made. there are shelves and tall scratching posts and it looked a lot better once the plants had established and the grass had come through. we've reassembled it in a different shape at this house.

They absolutely love it and it is nice knowing that they are safe, and not killing wildlife or annoying gardeners! and if people come to visit who are allergic the cats can sleep in the house part of the run overnight.

Quote from: olicat on May 11, 2009, 18:56:15
Does anyone have any advice how to stop other people's cat from using my garden as a toilet??

Tried cat pepper, but just been out and caught one of them weeing on my borders, the wee does not bother me, but the poo does!!!

Have no cats of my own, but seem surrounded by other peoples!!

Any advice gratefully recieved.

2 years of it, gave in, got a Tom cat of my own :)  he comes to stay in 10 days, only a few weeks old at the moment.  So I have given in, cant beat them, join in!!!

Looks good and am sure the cats are very well looked after.  Not quite sure what I think, all my cats have always been free to roam, when the cats were young we had the occasional mouse, bird, frog caught by them.  Next doors cat got run over and killed so her cat now never let out.  Charlie (my stray cat) moved into my house 10 years ago from 3 doors away as the young children frightened him.  Have taken him home on several occasions but he was back at my house before I got there.  He now accepts my grandchildren as they have been taught to be very gentle with him as he was badly treated by children before and is scared.  We have a cat flap and he goes in and out as he pleases but is frightened of traffic and when big lorries come up the side of the house rushes in.  All my cats were only allowed in the back garden and if they went out of the front of the house were gently kicked back in or shouted at, they soon learnt.  I just think cats should be free to roam, but agree traffic and people that steal cats could be a worry.  Must admit having a half dead bird presented as a present on the bed at night did give me a screaming fit, but I suppose that is nature.  My siamese cat was always allowed out, but we did have a big garden and backed onto a park.  That was many years ago and if I had a siamese cat or pedigree cat nowadays would not be too happy about letting it out.  I didn't see any pictures of your cats, would like to.  Charlie is black and white and long haired, which is a pain as he needs brushing everyday.  His fur and coat are beautiful now but when I found him in the back garden he was starving, frightened and his coat was matted.  Had to get the vet to clip the matted fur.

Olicat you have my sympathy. The local cats got used to using my back yard as a toilet for years before I moved in - I realised this when I went to plant some flowers in my lovely new flower beds and found that they consisted of about 90% catpoo and 10% soil! Nice!!!

I quite like cats and certainly don't want to poison them or anything. They are welcome to hang out in my back yard as long  they don't regard it as their personal latrine. I have tried just about everything short of anything actually harmful:

1. Olbas oil on teabags = didn't work
2. anti-cat granules/powder = didn't work
3. CDs and a mirror to reflect light = didn't work
4. Plastic bottles of water (apparently the reflections are meant to be scarey) = didn't work
5. Filling the beds with  many plants as possible = didn't work, they just squeezed in between the plants (and dug them up).
6. Keeping the soil wet = didn't work
7. Those scaredy cat plants that are meant to smell repellent =  got eaten by snails before they had a chance to work
8. Netting the entire bed off = kept them off the actual bed but they still crapped all over the edges of the net!
9. Sticking small sticks into the soil all over the beds to make them hard to dig in = works up to a point but you need 1000s of sticks
10. Putting very prickly bramble cuttings all over the surface of the soil = this works!!! and I'm sure cats are intelligent enough not to walk on the prickles and get injured.
11. chucking water at them mid-poo - this works (and is quite satisfying) but you have to lie in wait in a slightly obsessive way.   

Anyway after 6 years they have almost completely stopped. Almost. Good luck!  ;)

ELL,
         you have missed one off your list we caught the problem moggy at our gaff the other week with a brush full of creosote when I was doing the fence after trying everything you have described, the mangy thing just walks by these days, ;)

At least with cats we don't get bird crap all over the patio, car and the washing.  No one seems to complain about that.  What is it about cat haters that makes them so spiteful???

Some people can not help themselves.I was going to ignore Mr Smiths comment as he does enjoy winding people up,however you have found the right word.Food for thought.

What is  your problem Betula with me you have already insulted an elderly lady on the site this week who was asking a reasonable question, just because someone does not agree with your middle English views that you have stuck out there in Warwickshire I get a sarcastic comment off you, just go back and look through the posts, the folk that are reading this string are asking for help in trying to stop moggies crapping on THEIR property, they now have a solution if they care to read my previous post,

What elderly lady?Do you mean the lady who wanted to make a cats toy out of a rabbit?She was only five years older than me and I do not class us as elderly.

If I saw you doing that to a cat I would report you to the police and the RSPCA and no this time I am not joking...so get lost.

Betula,
           Ha, ha, I'm really worried do you want my name and number? report me to the Cops and they would say 'What him again',  In our local magistrates court last year  a lad was up for shooting a cat and he still walking the streets, needles to say all the fluffy merchants like you had an orgasm, and by the way, the same to you  B---0--s, ;D

Why do you do this, Mr Smith? What is it about being rude that gives you so much pleasure? The OP has already stated that she wouldn't hurt an animal. Her question has been answered, and you clearly have some issues with animals that you need to resolve so you resort to being rude to other members.

This would be a much happier place if you stuck to gardening, although I suspect you're out of depth there... Now, please try to respond without getting personal!

Ollie,
         Betual is being responded to in the way she responds to me, and as for you try taking a piece of your own advice,  off down the lotty now to see if I know which end of the hoe to stick in :)

I too wouldnt use creasote on a cat however, Mr Smith has a right to his opinion guys whether you like it or not.  :)

Cats are mostly very clean animals.  If you have a problem with one particular cat, and it is not yours, why not speak to the owner, and if they are reasonable, will probably provide a cat litter tray, either indoors or in their own garden.  My cat does poos in my small garden but I am on cat watch and bury it as it attracts flies.  I think there are worst things to worry about in life than cats but perhaps they like freshly dug soil and come for miles around to poo in your garden.  Unfortunately cats can't read so putting a sign up does no good.  I agree for a gardener is it annoying think the kindest solution is spraying water with a hose as most cats hate getting wet and may learn not to come to your garden again.  If my cat came home with creosate on and I knew you had done it I would be extremely angry.   

solution?????....some may find graphic...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awYO4ArTsQg

Good idea for 'Dragons Den' give me £20,000 and I will invent a cat toilet.  Rather the cats went in the garden as don't fancy sharing a toilet with them, they can't flush or wash their paws after.  Poor cats, they have to go somewhere, my old cat got very distressed when it was snowing so got the cat litter tray out and he looked very worried using it.  Most cats are clean and bury it, abit too enthusiastic about it if one has seeds growing there, but after all they are cats.

Quotewe caught the problem moggy at our gaff the other week with a brush full of creosote when I was doing the fence

You sicko  >:(

Creosote is phenol based as is jayes fluid , cats absorb phenol through their skin.you will end up poisoning them. gotta agree with lewic >:(

Poisoning and delivering pain to an animal simply because it performs the natural function of defecating in the environment does indeed seem sick. I wonder where Mr Smith's sh*t ends up and does it smell of roses  ;D or does it like everybody elses end up in an antiquated sewage system polluting the environment?

from your last post am I to take it that you welcome all wildlife onto your garden? (including, slugs, snails, aphids, pigeons, crows, rabbits, etc etc?)
btw, not everyone uses an antiquated victorian sewerage system a lot of folk have cess-pits, or composting toilets these days!
Up to 65% of all sewerage in the uk is treated and spread on the land as 'biosolids', fertiliser!!

Personally I would like my turds to go on to the garden of who ever owns this mangy cat and before I get accuse of murder the bloody thing is still wandering up and down the road at all times of the day and night, so much for you lot out there the loving cat fraternity,

Quote from: Mr Smith on May 26, 2009, 15:30:37
Personally I would like my turds to go on to the garden of who ever owns this mangy cat and before I get accuse of murder the bloody thing is still wandering up and down the road at all times of the day and night, so much for you lot out there the loving cat fraternity,

I'm glad to hear the blameless moggy is still alive. Personally I think sh*tting in the owners garden is so much more a proportionate response than hurting the poor creature and has hugely more comic appeal  ;D.

Glad to see this thread has taken a turd for the better!! ;)

If its not the cats fault then its the owners fault it would make a change for once to see these cat owners own up for kicking their cats out in all weathers and turding up on my property, ;D

Spoken like a true dog person. Every cat person knows you don't own a cat, it just uses you for as long as it pleases! And we don't chuck them out for the toilet like you have to do with your stupid dogs, they choose to go out rather than fester in their own feaceas...

My friend Doris buys those cheap kebab sticks for small areas pushed in the ground about 3to4 ins apart they stop them squatting :o :o
I've tried allsorts in our garden including a rather pricey electronic thing which the grandchildren could hear but the cats just did their dirty deeds right in front of it. >:(Oh i wish our beautiful golden retrievers were still alive you only had to mention the word cats and they were off like a rocket!

Spoken like a true Pacifist and Quaker that's if you are wearing that particular hat tonight you seem to change your views by the post, and by the way I don't pretend to be know everything about gardening I never have done also I don't have a problem with animals only with ones like you, so  now we have it Ollie don't like dogs, how horrible of you I'm going to report you to the Battersea dogs home and the Pooch police, :P

I don't like Cats or Dogs (but if I got really hungry I could change my mind...  :P )
Will somebody please report me now... I don't care to whom...  ::)

shoot them......   ::)

or me....  :-X

I never said I was a Quaker, smiffy, I said my family were & that this greatly influences my views including but not restricted to pacifism. And so you know, it's okay to argue if you're a pacifist... can't see what this has to do with cats though.

And personally, if I were king, I'd ban most dogs (unless they're working animals). I don't think people should have the luxury of their parasite infested, slobbering, child munching, stinking, crotch-sniffing "pets". So yes, you have me there. At the very least I would like to see all dogs being on a lead & muzzled when in a public place. Bloody things.

This is not the same as painting them with creosote.

I wonder what any potential new members would think if they read this thread before the ones where everyone is so kind to one another?

Quote from: Hector on May 26, 2009, 19:28:29
I wonder what any potential new members would think if they read this thread before the ones where everyone is so kind to one another?

Now then Hector just cause you crossed party lines what with that ZaZa and even that green creature Kiki, don't come all holier than though  ;) ;D

lol. Well, there you go, my cover is rumbled :)  Holy???....you are wayyyyyyy off target there :)

Quote from: Hector on May 26, 2009, 19:28:29
I wonder what any potential new members would think if they read this thread before the ones where everyone is so kind to one another?

It's the reason I and many others are a lot less active than we once were - certain posters insist on digressing and getting personal all the time. I just can't be bothered to post much...

Whoa...didn't realise this would get so contentious! I'd love it if all cat owners trained their moggies to use a litter tray which was then hygienically emptied and the contents transformed into odour-free organic fertiliser...but this just ain't going to happen, so I'm sticking with gentle non-creosote based discouragement.

Has anyone tried sprinkling lion poo around the place? I've heard this scares off cats...but it occurs to me that heaps of lion poo may actually be worse than heaps of cat poo, not to mention the fact that I've no idea where to get it.

HOW MANY TIMES A DAY DO THESE CAT HATERS THINK A CAT CRAPS??????


My cats don't use a litter tray - they use my garden. If they sometimes go in someone else's garden, well, tough.  There's a cat near my allotment that craps on my beds, so what??? I just dig it in and thank the cat for catching the pigeons that some well meaining old bag with nothing better to do feeds with breadcrumbs near the plots.

We have open plan front gardens in my road, we get plenty of dog walkers passing by (we have woods where they run free) - where do the b@st@rds crap?  Yes, on my front lawn.  I don't hate dogs, but give me cats any day. Certainly preferable to kids. (Ollie's excepted, of course)

I think this post is absolutely hilarious Mr Smith turns a cat into Pepé Le Pew and world war 3s started,I have been following this all day I dare not go to bed in case I miss something,
(catching the pigeons that some well meaning old bag with nothing better to do feeds with breadcrumbs near the plots)ha ha ha cant beat disrespecting someone's mother(well not to their sons face any way)

I am not sure if I like cat poo poo or dog poo poo best :)

My allotment is patrolled by two feral cats, they eat slugs, pigeons, mice and rats and I rarely encounter their turds. They're welcome.

If they ever caught one of our sky rats I'd never hear a bad word against them...
BTW I saw a fox from the lotties that had just been hit by a car, it was dead but still warm...  :'(

well. Not seen this post. What load of rubbish. I have never read such nonsense. Same old click.

I am always a bit wary of cat owners. Specially single ones. They give me the creeps. There is something strange about someone keeping loads of cats and living on their own.

As for pacifists with cats they are the worse !! Lol. 

I am definately a dog person. A doberman and a bedlington terrier. Suffice to say. We dont get cats in our garden. Would not want to hurt them just would not want them in my garden.

Now. Back to what i was doing. Peace.

I think many people feel more strongly about dog owners who keep the large threatning breeds that are capable of and sometimes do maul and kill young children. I know it's not the dogs fault that warped human beings have bred and trained them as attack and fighting dogs. I do wonder if owning such dogs should be made much more difficult. A walk down our local town and you see the hoodied chavs with their staffs ( a lovely dog when kept by responsible people) throwing shapes with their fighting dogs ( whats that about, pencil d*ck syndrome or what?).
Cats at least try to bury their sh*t not just dump it on the pavement for all and sundry to walk in. Our local park is destroyed with dog poo.

What I find even worse than dog poo are the plastic bags full of it that owners dump all over the countryside. Since the dog-poo laws came in, our beautiful local cycle path is littered with dog-poo bags, as is the river bank.

i saw a cat the other day having a s**t then tried to bury it.

is this normal ?

Quote from: gardentg44 on May 27, 2009, 08:16:46
i saw a cat the other day having a s**t then tried to bury it.

is this normal ?

If your a hoodied chav yes  ;D

Quote from: carbonel11 on May 27, 2009, 08:19:24

Quote from: gardentg44 on May 27, 2009, 08:16:46
[i saw a cat the other day having a s**t then tried to bury it.

is this normal ?]

If your a hoodied chav yes  ;D

yes but not with a shovel ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: gardentg44 on May 27, 2009, 08:27:13

Quote from: carbonel11 on May 27, 2009, 08:19:24

Quote from: gardentg44 on May 27, 2009, 08:16:46
[i saw a cat the other day having a s**t then tried to bury it.

is this normal ?]

If your a hoodied chav yes  ;D

yes but not with a shovel ;D ;D ;D

Wot did you use then, your hands  :o ( burying cat poo with your hands could be considered rather strange)

don't know how i got into this.

the only good cat is a (DEAD CAT)

Quote from: gardentg44 on May 27, 2009, 08:37:07
don't know how i got into this.

the only good cat is a (DEAD CAT)

Now that is just not funny ! No humour there at all that I can detect.

Quote from: Flunky on May 27, 2009, 07:35:54
well. Not seen this post. What load of rubbish. I have never read such nonsense. Same old click.

I am always a bit wary of cat owners. Specially single ones. They give me the creeps. There is something strange about someone keeping loads of cats and living on their own.

As for pacifists with cats they are the worse !! Lol. 

I am definately a dog person. A doberman and a bedlington terrier. Suffice to say. We dont get cats in our garden. Would not want to hurt them just would not want them in my garden.

Now. Back to what i was doing. Peace.

You make me smile flunky,same old clique?I notice you always home in on the rows so don't make yourself out to be better than anyone else.

Anyone who wants to kill or harm these domestic animals has a screw loose in my opinion.

Gosh! I didn't realise things could get so heated on here.  :o

All this from one simple question - goodness. 

My plot kept on getting shat on by cats, did my head in.

Best solution is my toe up their arse whenever I could get close enough.

Hate them!!!

Quote from: banshee on May 27, 2009, 11:14:21
Gosh! I didn't realise things could get so heated on here.  :o

All this from one simple question - goodness. 

There have been rows in my workplace on the cat/dog issue. Seems guaranteed to get emotions high whenever the subject is broached. I come from a family that has often kept both, but always remain staggered at the vitriol some dog owners come out with about cats. I don't like dog poo in parks and on pavements, but would never advocate killing dogs.

You have a human problem - not a acat problem

cats are great and i love them

i have three housecats

I would not allow them out - its not safe and its inappropraite for my cats to foul my neighbours garden.

end of!

How horrible,the equivalent of being caged for life surely???

my housecats are perfectly happy and well adjusted

they are well fed, cared for and loved

they have a stimulating and fulfilling life

some breeds of cats are not suitable for itinerant lifestyles

:)

I'd say that the only cats that are unsuited to going outdoors were ones that have been declawed (fortunately illegal) or those poor things that are bred to have no fur.

Unless you are talking about how much they are worth?  :-\

Ragdoll cats are a very docile breed

Their character and behaviour is much more like a dog in my experience - they are loyal, attentive and excellent pets for housebound people - they love people and adore children.

Whilst they may true - they are valuable cats - It is not recommended that they be allowed outside unaccompanied - the local moggies when they are not crapping in your border would beat the crap out of them.

In any case, evidence shows that letting a pet cat run around outside is cruel and selfish

Sorry I think you are wrong.Never to feel the sun or the rain.Never to breathe fresh air. >:(

daxzen,
                 I think you are a very responsible cat owner, ;)

Not been on here for a few days...Crikey!! what have i started?? only wanted a bit of advice on my cat poo problem!!!   Ha ha!!!


Ps have tried a few things, nothing works yet, so just resigned to checking daily and removing the offending bit of poo...!

maybe you should try small bear traps..... or snares....   ;)

Quote from: Jokerman on June 05, 2009, 21:59:54
maybe you should try small bear traps..... or snares....   ;)

to catch the cat haters, of course  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Mr Smith... My hero... totally agree with you.

I am also a Cat owner. 2 and love em to bits. They are house cats. 100% Never let them out. They are well adjusted, healthy, fit and happy cats and they are moggies. Fully neutered, chipped, up to date on all injections, wormed and had drops for fleas.

I have a friend who volunteers for a local animal charity that takes in injured cats. The amount of cats/kittens that end up there is disgusting. either badly injured or with in hours of death, but their owners love em.... not that the owners know the cat has been killed/badly injured.

The amount of dead cats I see on the road is criminal. all because "cats lovers" want to gives little Tabby the right to roam just to feel the air and rain. They feel the air all right, the air inside the tyre of a car at 30 and 40 and 50 and 60mph!!!!  enough said there.

To me a cat owner that lets their beloved tabby out, doesn't love cats, They just want a pet on a part time basis and believes that other people should look after it the rest of time, because they cant be bothered.

I work with a lady who has two cats. She always lets them out. They are never gone for more than 12hours but yesterday, she had not seen one for 48hrs plus. She is very worried. I refer to previous car comments. Both her cats have bad health problems. bad teeth (have had operations etc...) and other intestinal related issues. They are always getting fleas. They are always going to the vets (has had lots of expensive fee's). She loves her cats though and they feel air and water on their faces. They are only 6yrs old. She says she loves her cats. Give me a break will you!

As for cat owners finding it acceptable for their pets to spoil other people gardens. No it isnt ok. As for cat owners who think that it doesnt hurt little tabby killing birds, yes it does hurt. An estimated 90million birds are killed by cats every year!!!! rare birds and more common garden birds, but at least little tabby is feeling fresh air and rain.

One word describes this type of person "selfish"

There is a sad truth in some of the things you say.

However I would prefer to have no cats than have cats that have to live in a gilded cage.

Selfish ? The word pot and kettle come to mind.

Glad you and your little prisoners are so happy ::)

Quote from: betula on June 05, 2009, 23:00:59

However I would prefer to have no cats than have cats that have to live in a gilded cage.

There isn't a pet on the planet that doesn't live in a gilded cage?

whether it be a horse, dog, parrots, finches, donkeys? any domesticated animal?

The only question is, how large is the cage? Is there a minimum size of cage that makes it acceptable?

Just because you let your cat out doesnt mean it doesnt live in a guilded cage, it does, the only difference is the size of the cage, it is still very reliant on you or some one else (whether you know who doesnt matter) for the life style it has. You will have trained it to come back to your house with food and as long as you keep feeding it then that is the cage you speak of.

With out the assistance of humanity, their would be no cats or if they did exist, they would have considerably shorter lives due to disease, other animals and colony dynamics.

Quote from: cjb02 on June 05, 2009, 22:54:42
Mr Smith... My hero... totally agree with you.

Mine too, he's great! Well balanced arguments, thoughtful, relevant & insightful input...

There isn't a pet on the planet that doesn't live in a gilded cage?

whether it be a horse, dog, parrots, finches, donkeys? any domesticated animal?

The only question is, how large is the cage? Is there a minimum size of cage that makes it acceptable?

Just because you let your cat out doesnt mean it doesnt live in a guilded cage, it does, the only difference is the size of the cage, it is still very reliant on you or some one else (whether you know who doesnt matter) for the life style it has. You will have trained it to come back to your house with food and as long as you keep feeding it then that is the cage you speak of.

With out the assistance of humanity, their would be no cats or if they did exist, they would have considerably shorter lives due to disease, other animals and colony dynamics.

No you're wrong. I find your arguements and logic infantile.

You're cats are animals who have natural instincts however you try to erase them they will still be there. You are in fact being cruel to your beloved pets by denying them the outside. Neither of course should a pet be denied the protection of shelter in the house or food and medical support when needed but nobody on this thread has suggested otherwise ( apart from those who have advocated harming or killing them) so what's your point.

As for the birds, cats are predetors just like you ! you seem to find this fact horrific. May I ask are you a vegetarian? Do you eschew all animal products ? If you are then my apologies for assuming the rank hypocrisy in your arguement.

Far more birds are destroyed by human produced poisons and destruction of natural habitat then the humble girl thingy cat can aspire to.

[/quote]

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 09:40:49
No you're wrong. I find your arguements and logic infantile.

[/quote]

Can I ask why do you find  my arguments and logic infantile? what an interesting comment.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 09:40:49
You're cats are animals who have natural instincts however you try to erase them they will still be there. You are in fact being cruel to your beloved pets by denying them the outside. Neither of course should a pet be denied the protection of shelter in the house or food and medical support when needed but nobody on this thread has suggested otherwise ( apart from those who have advocated harming or killing them) so what's your point.

[/quote]

Lots of cat owners neuter their cats, does this mean they are also trying to subdue their pets natural instincts? of course they are. Does that make it wrong? Is that being cruel also? no it is not. Owners who lets their cats outside are lazy, wanting a part time pet because they dont have the desire, knowledge or experience to look after an animal on a full time basis.

All pets have natural instincts and all are subdued by man, by the very act of keeping them as a pet. There are plenty of animals that are kept inside and this is accepted as being the norm, birds, hamsters, dogs, rodents. Denying these animals an outside life, is that also cruel? no because it accepted by the communities we live in.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 09:40:49
As for the birds, cats are predetors just like you ! you seem to find this fact horrific. May I ask are you a vegetarian? Do you eschew all animal products ? If you are then my apologies for assuming the rank hypocrisy in your arguement.

Far more birds are destroyed by human produced poisons and destruction of natural habitat then the humble girl thingy cat can aspire to.

[/quote]

Cats are indeed predators just like me. I do not find it horrific at all that they kill 90million birds a year. I dont agree with it and I believe it to be morally wrong. Cats don't kill birds for food (or not many do) it is usually for sport, fun, entertainment.

I do not eschew animal products either, but I dont get a cat in a corner and torture the animal for fun just because I can. I do eat meat, that has been reared as food and killed humanely.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 09:40:49
Far more birds are destroyed by human produced poisons and destruction of natural habitat then the humble girl thingy cat can aspire to.

[/quote]

As for humanity destroying more birds than cats could ever do. You are correct, but that doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it acceptable for cat owners to let their cats to carry on more carnage.

I dont know what a girl thingy is

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 10:08:20

I dont know what a girl thingy is

Probably because you haven't worked out how to change the settings to grown-up!

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 10:08:20I dont know what a girl thingy is

Girl thingy cat = pussy cat. Leaving the swear filter enabled can make some innocent comments difficult to understand, you can disable it by going to your profile>Look and Layout Preferences> & ticking the 'Leave words uncensored' option.

Quote from: OllieC on June 06, 2009, 10:15:07

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 10:08:20

I dont know what a girl thingy is

Probably because you haven't worked out how to change the settings to grown-up!

Ah, an individual who believes in some thing, but has no idea why and cannot justify their own actions. So to show some sort of defence of their beliefs can only resort to sarcasm and deriding wit.

My cat has a cat flap and goes in and out as he pleases, now he is getting old mostly stays in, and has difficulty jumping on the shed/fence now so doesn't catch birds. His favourite spot was asleep on the shed roof where he could survey the world. I often see notices on lamp posts about cats going missing which makes me sad.  Also some cats seem to walk in the road.  The point I am trying to make is it up to the owner to know their own cat and where they live if they want to let it out.  Next doors cat doesn't go out on its own, it is a bit fat but happy, as her previous cat was run over in the alley near my house and it was very distressing for her and me.  My cats have always been allowed out, but when they were kittens if they went out the front they got a gentle kick on the bottom and soon learnt that was not allowed.  I think it is how they are bought up, our allotment cat is getting old, and one man wants to take it home next winter but don't know if I think that will be too much of a shock to it as its home is the allotment, but on the other hand if it gets old and ill needs to be rehomed.  As long as their is no cruelty involved surely it is up to the owner how they treat their animals and everyone else should not interfer.  Just off to bury the cat poo that my own cat left in my garden.  

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 10:21:05

Quote from: OllieC on June 06, 2009, 10:15:07

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 10:08:20

I dont know what a girl thingy is

Probably because you haven't worked out how to change the settings to grown-up!

Ah, an individual who believes in some thing, but has no idea why and cannot justify their own actions. So to show some sort of defence of their beliefs can only resort to sarcasm and deriding wit.

Er no, just making a joke that you have to change the settings to see the words... it took me a couple of years to find. You're a bit prickly, aren't you?

  Hi olicat,    would second the suggestion from legless -  that you block all the routes

 that the local cats take through your garden.   No cat likes to feel trapped and they need to

 know they have a clear run in an emergancy.

 Had the same problem as our garden was a free run for many years,   blocked off or created

 a hazzard at every access and have had no more problems  --  or the odd puss who has made

 a panic induced mistake -  and not a hair hurt on their heads !

 Like cats  --  don't like pooooooo,     :P

 floss xxx

 

Quote from: OllieC on June 06, 2009, 10:23:22

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 10:21:05

Quote from: OllieC on June 06, 2009, 10:15:07

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 10:08:20

I dont know what a girl thingy is

Probably because you haven't worked out how to change the settings to grown-up!

Ah, an individual who believes in some thing, but has no idea why and cannot justify their own actions. So to show some sort of defence of their beliefs can only resort to sarcasm and deriding wit.

Er no, just making a joke that you have to change the settings to see the words... it took me a couple of years to find. You're a bit prickly, aren't you?

Fair point, was over sensitive there in my response. I didnt appreciate their are adult setting on this forum.

thanks Baccy man for explaining more clearly

How do you change the setting to grown-up.  I don't know  :( :(

go to profile (at top of this page)

Then on the side choose option "Look and Layout preferences"

Then put a tick in "Leave words uncensored."

Just found it now and ticked it.

Hi cbj02, in answer to your question I find the most infantile aspect of your arguement the way it postulates a black and white solution to the problem of pets. You seem to believe there is no mid ground between keeping your pet locked up and forcing it to live a feral existance. The vast majority of responsible cat owners opt for mid ground.
Interestingly the latest scientific research postulates that cats far from being domesticated by man simply opted for the increased survival aspect of living alongside the primate not so much for the food he provided in terms of his leftovers but more for the prey potential in the vermin he attracted in his wake. The average cat would be well able to survive without humans but obviously as a wild creature it would be more subject to the laws of nature.
Your priorities seem strange. I find it hard to believe that a true cat friendly person would post against those defending cats and not against those on this thread proposing harm and death to cats for performing the very natural process of defaecation.
Maybe you should rethink your choice of pet ( you could at least take a dog for walks ) however I don't know the ragdoll breed may well have had most natural instincts bred out of it so that it actually enjoys being confined, maybe a selectively bred agrophobia? Doesn't seem right to me but not the animal itself fault either!

For me it is a black and white solution towards cats and their welfare. A large proportion of the cat population that are left to wonder, come to harm at some point in their lives. There is very little mid ground, I base this down to lots of cat owners who find it quite easy just to say, cats are cats and they need to roam around neighbours hoods freely. No they dont. A large portion of cat owners do not take in to account how many cats are killed and maimed and are happy to just get another kitten when the last pet disappears.

I can easily believe that cats chose to live with primates, cats are very intelligent animals. Humanity has taken that one step further now with the domestic cat because we feed our pet cats. They don't need to hunt but most cats still hunt for entertainment. I have many friends who come home/wake up to find dead or half dead animals in their respective homes. These are very rarely eaten just mauled to death over long periods of time.

I am not posting against any one, I am merely trying to champion the cause of animal welfare. What I respect about people who dont like cats even when whey propose harm against cats is their honesty. What I respect about genuine cat lovers is the time and money they devote to another animal. What frustrates me about a lot of cat owners is their total and utter lack of respect for other people in their own communities and respect for cats. Lots of cat owners do no neuter, do not vaccinate and allow their pets to roam with scant regard for the cats safety or the comfort of other people, other animals and other cats.

The aim being to improve cat welfare with a side benefit of gardeners not finding cat poo in their garden and having more birds flying around.

Why would I rethink my choice of pets? My pets are safe, have good health care and an excellent diet. They are happy, content and happy to turn our home in to race track and assault course at their whim. My neighbours are happy and I have birds in my garden.

No, your wrong again !

Your post yet again fails to impress, You respect the honesty of those who propose harm to cats !!! Yet feel you are a champion of cat welfare , Your logic is certainly impossible to discern.

Cats are entertained by their kill you say, again a childish logic, your anthromorphic view of cats playing with their kills does not recognise the pure instinct in this. They are practising and honing techniques for the next kill. They are obeying their normal instincts here not making sapient decisions on which they can be judged.

You decry the responsible cat owner who allows their cat the access to outside and inside on the basis that they could be run over etc and deny the argument that a long life imprisoned is not superior to one that may be foreshortened but that will be less stressed because the animal is allowed to live more in tune with its natural instincts.

Your logic on animal welfare if followed to its black, white conclusion would see all of the animal life on this planet confined to zoos and parks ( for its on good of course and oh yes that of your neighbours).

Cats are not naturally exclusively indoor pets to say otherwise is really just peeing in the wind  :)

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 13:24:12
No, your wrong again !

Interesting, which part?

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 13:24:12
Your post yet again fails to impress, You respect the honesty of those who propose harm to cats !!! Yet feel you are a champion of cat welfare , Your logic is certainly impossible to discern.

I think you missed the point, I was not trying to impress you. Just because some one has a different opinion to myself does not mean I cannot show them respect. Even on the subject of cats and cat welfare. Are you rude to every one who disagrees with your opinion? I would hope not. If you were, would that not be child like.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 13:24:12
Cats are entertained by their kill you say, again a childish logic, your anthromorphic view of cats playing with their kills does not recognise the pure instinct in this. They are practising and honing techniques for the next kill. They are obeying their normal instincts here not making sapient decisions on which they can be judged.

I agree cats do kill instinctively, however you appear to deny the fact that they can experience any form of enjoyment out of this, which I find an interesting remark. You say my view is anthromorphic, I have accepted that not only humanity can experience emotions like joy, happiness or fear. I have watched many a cat play with a mouse. They wont always kill but will chase it, corner it, effectively tease it. I agree this is instinctive, but the act is done to play and experience enjoyment. Any animal can be judged and are, on their acts.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 13:24:12
You decry the responsible cat owner who allows their cat the access to outside and inside on the basis that they could be run over etc and deny the argument that a long life imprisoned is not superior to one that may be foreshortened but that will be less stressed because the animal is allowed to live more in tune with its natural instincts.

I do decry the cat owner who lets their cats roam outside, because it is irresponsible. You accuse me of having anthromorphic view of cats but you are guilty of the same crime. You are assuming that because people have to have a perceived freedom to roam and if withdrawn it makes a life less worth living and that cats aspire to the same belief, why? Surely a anthromorphic view.

As for living in tune with its natural instincts, one could argue that there is nothing natural about a domesticated cat. A domesticated cat is not a wild animal, it has been bred for thousands of years to exhibit specific traits. It might have been once a natural animal but what we have in our homes now is purely man made.


As for following my opinions to their black and white conclusions, an interesting thought you have there, one I would disagree with but still interesting.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 13:24:12
Cats are not naturally exclusively indoor pets to say otherwise is really just peeing in the wind  :)

Again I will reiterate, there is nothing natural about a domesticated cat, it is purely man made.

And speaking of free roaming cats dying. This is a rather sad article but  highlights the point of cats just left to their own devices stand a better chance of having a shorter life.
http://www.scarborougheveningnews.co.uk/news/Poisoning-fears-over-cat-deaths.5320762.jp

I fail to see where I have been rude to you  :o, it is your posts I find illogical and childish not you yourself ( I don't know you so I can't comment)

As for your link to a local newspaper , I could post another one to my local paper where local cats are being poisoned by some sicko monster, would you applaud their honesty too ?

Your cats have been bred and selected away from their normal wild state the normal moggy however has not, it remains mostly true to it's original form apart from a few colour variations. Humans have not meddled with it's genetics in the same way as they have with dogs.

Cats do not choose to enjoy they simply enjoy or don't they are not sentient beings ( at least not last time I checked the science journals ) you should not judge their actions by a human sapience morality.

A cat is a cat, it enjoys following it's instincts to deprive it of an access to the outdoors is wrong.

Olicat,
if you're still around - that is?

I've tried & failed, like yourself, in using anything that's effective in discouraging felines.
In addition, I've tried 3 different ultrasonic devices & found them expensive & useless.
I was thinking of the water jet fitted to a sensor, anyone tried this? Would only use this at night so that birds don't get blasted.
I enjoy a challenge, and will persevere with my efforts!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

One of the most effective deterrants is having a cat of your own. Cats are extremely territorial and are uneasy in anothers space. Of course you have to train your own cat to crap elsewhere than your veggie plot . A clean litter tray is usually accepted over your prize veg. :) :

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 16:32:45
As for your link to a local newspaper , I could post another one to my local paper where local cats are being poisoned by some sicko monster, would you applaud their honesty too ?

The reference to the article was an aid to imply that what some people in this site have inferred does sadly happen, and another reason to keep pet cats inside.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 16:32:45
Your cats have been bred and selected away from their normal wild state the normal moggy however has not, it remains mostly true to it's original form apart from a few colour variations. Humans have not meddled with it's genetics in the same way as they have with dogs.

It has still been bred away from any wild state, whether to the same degree as a domesticated dog or not. The genetics of the wild animal have been changed and that includes my normal moggy.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 16:32:45
Cats do not choose to enjoy they simply enjoy or don't they are not sentient beings ( at least not last time I checked the science journals ) you should not judge their actions by a human sapience morality.

I am not saying they are aware of their own existence but I strongly disagree with remark they they simply enjoy or do not enjoy. Their is more than that to a cats emotional repertoire .I am not suggesting that cats have the same emotions as a person but they still do have emotions/feelings

These are two interesting articles

http://www.catchannel.com/behavior/article_5288.aspx

http://www.messybeast.com/emoticat.html

I am sorry if you cannot find any thing in your science journals, may I suggest broadening your reading material.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 16:32:45
A cat is a cat, it enjoys following it's instincts to deprive it of an access to the outdoors is wrong.

An interesting last line, "it enjoys following its instincts", is that an admission  that a cat has feelings at last?

I would be curious to know, do you know any one with a house cat or visited a home with a house cat in?

You argue points I haven't made, of course a cat can feel but it can not decide to act or not act in the way that you or I would based, on a moral code. Surely you do not believe this ! Others on this thread have suggested the only good cat is a dead cat because they kill birds you have said nothing to refute this and then use this as an argument for locking up your pets.
You are wrong the cat is not bred away from it's original state which is why it is hugely succesfull as a species surviving in a feral state.
If I might suggest some reading. Try Born Free by Joy Adamson, she agonises over Elsa an adopted Lion cub but decides in the end that her natural  freedom is preferable over a life led caged in captivity. As a child I questioned this ( Elsa dies ) but as an adult I realise how much captivity would have impaired Elsa's life. Cats as pets can have the best of both lifes you deny your pets an important aspect of their existance.
You continue to argue forcefully against other cat owners while failing to retract your message of admiration for those who speak of doing then harm.
This more than anything undermines the credibility of your arguement.

Blimey, never thought cat poo (or prawn tails lol) would arouse such passions on an allotment site!

I'm with carbonel on this one. The statement that Ragdoll cats "adore children" sums up my objection to selective breeding! What many owners want is a pet that will not retaliate when their kid mistreats it. Cats and small children are not usually compatible. Most moggies will (quite rightfully) wallop a kid if its picked up by the tail or stuffed into a toy box, and this is how the brat learns.

My old puss (just testing this swear filter!) had a telepathic child-radar and would slink behind the settee if a visitor on the doorstep had a child or dog with them, even if they had made no noise. He knew exactly who was friend or foe, and it never ceased to amaze me. He was also very streetwise, and would be up on our steps at the first sound of a car. Breeding out these instincts seems to me to be the ultimate in cruelty.

I did not suggest a cat has a moral code. I am simply arguing that a cat can have a fulfilled life as a house cat. no less no more and does have emotions and an excellent quality of life that is not suppressed by living in a house.

As for the comparison to a truly wild animal, the same reasoning cannot be applied. Simply because lions are wild animals, where as cats are bred as pets.

I wont retract my remarks about people being honest in their dislike for cats, they are entitled to their beliefs just as the next person. The onus is on the cat owner to keep their pet in this case cats under control and safe. To many people let their cats roam free with scant regard for other people or animals and expect everyone else to do their job of looking after their cat. That was my original argument. Cat owners who let their cats out are irresponsible.

You still never answered my query of do you know any house cats and their owners to genuinely comment on whether it is wrong for a cats well being. I am just curious if you are speaking from personal experience or just object through assumption.

Charlie, my stray cat was reading all this on the computer, and got fed up and has just gone out, probably to poo in next door's garden, but luckily she loves him.  He will be back in soon as he waits for me to get off the computer and go to bed and then he can jump on my back and wake me up.  He is quite a good alarm clock at 8.30 am but hasn't quite got the idea that Sunday is tea and biscuits in bed, and not cat food.  He does go out when the sun is shining but if it is raining or cold (sensible cat) only goes out for a quick pee and then sleeps on bed or settee.  I don't agree with shutting cats out, especially at night, but with a cat flap they soon come in when they are scared or cold.

LOL ... 8.30, thats a lie in at our house. This morning, 7.30 cats bouncing round the house, partner was not impressed but they got their morning fuss and then carried on.

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 21:02:48
I did not suggest a cat has a moral code. I am simply arguing that a cat can have a fulfilled life as a house cat. no less no more and does have emotions and an excellent quality of life that is not suppressed by living in a house.[/color]

I do not believe they do have as fulfilled a life.

As for the comparison to a truly wild animal, the same reasoning cannot be applied. Simply because lions are wild animals, where as cats are bred as pets.

Aaah so your logic on animal welfare does not extend all the way to a black and white solution ( to quote yourself , interesting ...........) As I said a pet cat can have the advantages of both wild and captive life you are denying your cats the benefits.

I wont retract my remarks about people being honest in their dislike for cats, they are entitled to their beliefs just as the next person. The onus is on the cat owner to keep their pet in this case cats under control and safe. To many people let their cats roam free with scant regard for other people or animals and expect everyone else to do their job of looking after their cat. That was my original argument. Cat owners who let their cats out are irresponsible.  

Total tosh, people are entitled not to like cats people are not entitled to beliefs that harm, maim or kill cats because they poo and nobody seriously concerned about animal welfare would say so! You have not spoken one word in rebuff to these cat haters. I invite you to do so now!

You still never answered my query of do you know any house cats and their owners to genuinely comment on whether it is wrong for a cats well being. I am just curious if you are speaking from personal experience or just object through assumption.

I did not realise you had asked this, yes I have. A friend made the misjudgement of keeping two siamese once , housebound in their high rise flat. The cats were always trying to escape and after a very narrow escape on the balcony the friend made the wise decision to rehome her cats to a third party with access to a garden.

At best you are seriously misguided in your beliefs. The onus in law thank god is for people to behave in a humane way towards cats.Your words would seem to be efforts to justify such evil actions by saying its the owners fault and if such I find that appalling. I invite you to clarify your meaning.

Quote from: cjb02 on June 05, 2009, 22:54:42
Mr Smith... My hero... totally agree with you.

I am also a Cat owner. 2 and love em to bits. They are house cats. 100% Never let them out. They are well adjusted, healthy, fit and happy cats and they are moggies. Fully neutered, chipped, up to date on all injections, wormed and had drops for fleas.

I have a friend who volunteers for a local animal charity that takes in injured cats. The amount of cats/kittens that end up there is disgusting. either badly injured or with in hours of death, but their owners love em.... not that the owners know the cat has been killed/badly injured.

The amount of dead cats I see on the road is criminal. all because "cats lovers" want to gives little Tabby the right to roam just to feel the air and rain. They feel the air all right, the air inside the tyre of a car at 30 and 40 and 50 and 60mph!!!!  enough said there.

To me a cat owner that lets their beloved tabby out, doesn't love cats, They just want a pet on a part time basis and believes that other people should look after it the rest of time, because they cant be bothered.

I work with a lady who has two cats. She always lets them out. They are never gone for more than 12hours but yesterday, she had not seen one for 48hrs plus. She is very worried. I refer to previous car comments. Both her cats have bad health problems. bad teeth (have had operations etc...) and other intestinal related issues. They are always getting fleas. They are always going to the vets (has had lots of expensive fee's). She loves her cats though and they feel air and water on their faces. They are only 6yrs old. She says she loves her cats. Give me a break will you!

As for cat owners finding it acceptable for their pets to spoil other people gardens. No it isnt ok. As for cat owners who think that it doesnt hurt little tabby killing birds, yes it does hurt. An estimated 90million birds are killed by cats every year!!!! rare birds and more common garden birds, but at least little tabby is feeling fresh air and rain.

One word describes this type of person "selfish"

Quote from: cjb02 on June 05, 2009, 22:54:42
Mr Smith... My hero... totally agree with you.

I am also a Cat owner. 2 and love em to bits. They are house cats. 100% Never let them out. They are well adjusted, healthy, fit and happy cats and they are moggies. Fully neutered, chipped, up to date on all injections, wormed and had drops for fleas.

Can I ask why you'd chip a house cat?

G x

Quote from: Georgie on June 06, 2009, 22:32:14

Quote from: cjb02 on June 05, 2009, 22:54:42
Mr Smith... My hero... totally agree with you.

I am also a Cat owner. 2 and love em to bits. They are house cats. 100% Never let them out. They are well adjusted, healthy, fit and happy cats and they are moggies. Fully neutered, chipped, up to date on all injections, wormed and had drops for fleas.

Can I ask why you'd chip a house cat?

G x

Georgie I suspect the same as you, could it be these cats would not seem to be as happy with their captivity as we are led to believe?

So there is a concern about escape either that or a worry about a burglar stealing them ( they are however ordinary moggies )

Quote from: Georgie on June 06, 2009, 22:32:14
Can I ask why you'd chip a house cat?
G x

When I got the cats, I didn't know if they were going to be house cats or not. So whilst they were having their vaccinations, they were chipped at the same time.

However upon speaking to friends who have cats and let them out and friends who keep them in, I decided that the best quality of life for the cats would to have them as house cats.

In response to carbonel, I take it by your lack of response you dont know any one with house cats and are looking at this subject with blinkers on and have no personal experience of house cats at all.

Also does carbonel place less value on an ordinary moggie. With that inference if you lost your cat, would that not concern you? ordinary moggie or not, probably not, to you it is only a cat, that is only instinctual, has no emotions and can easily be replaced by another kitten!!!

You are starting to sound like a scientist, who works in a lab on animals.

Quote from: cjb02 on June 07, 2009, 08:44:44

Quote from: Georgie on June 06, 2009, 22:32:14
Can I ask why you'd chip a house cat?
G x

When I got the cats, I didn't know if they were going to be house cats or not. So whilst they were having their vaccinations, they were chipped at the same time.

However upon speaking to friends who have cats and let them out and friends who keep them in, I decided that the best quality of life for the cats would to have them as house cats.

In response to carbonel, I take it by your lack of response you dont know any one with house cats and are looking at this subject with blinkers on and have no personal experience of house cats at all.

Also does carbonel place less value on an ordinary moggie. With that inference if you lost your cat, would that not concern you? ordinary moggie or not, probably not, to you it is only a cat, that is only instinctual, has no emotions and can easily be replaced by another kitten!!!

You are starting to sound like a scientist, who works in a lab on animals.

I have replied to your query. If you would do me the courtesy of reading my posts properly you will see this.

I place no more intrinsic value or worth on a moggie as appossed to blue bloodied pedigree but unfortunately some do. I doubt a burglar would steal either actually, but just might take the pedigree to sell !

Not all scientists work in labs or are vivisectionists. I can see nothing that I have written that could lead you to this conclusion and suspect you are employing emotive posing to try and shore up your failing arguement.

You still fail to condemn those on this thread who have proposed harm to these wonderful animals. Perhaps you did not read my invitations to do so ?

On another point what happens to the cats when you and your partner are out ?

You condemn all cat owners who allow their cats access to the outside as irresponsible but now reveal you once considered this as an option. Perhaps the issue is not as black and white as you first suggested?

You have not replied to the query at all. You still haven't stated whether you know any one with a house cat or not and whether you are speaking from a knowledgeable point of view or just one of speculation.

As for the value of an animal or pet, you implied other wise in your text previous postings.

Due to you initially implying that cats don't have emotions and are only instinctive and referencing science journals that indeed did lead me to speculate as to whether you are some one who would do harm to animal in the name of science. Some one who doesn't believe cats have emotions/feeling would be an opinion created purely to condone some ones mistreating of an animal.

If you read my previous posts, you will have clearly see that I indeed did read your previous invitations and addressed them. I do indeed fail to condemn others on this thread who propose harm to cats. They are still entitled to their belief and I still respect them for their honesty. The onus still lies with the cat owner to responsible look after their pets. It is irrelevant whether an individual means to harm a cat on purpose or not. Cats far too often come to a great deal of harm whilst roaming openly. It does not matter if a lilly was planted on purposes to harm a cat or for the natural beauty when a cat eats it. It does not matter if cats are fighting over territory or not, if ones is fatally wounded or seriously hurt, the fact is, the cat is still the one that suffers, not me, not you and not the owner.

As for my cats, when my home is empty, they have free run of the house.

You make remark about myself, considering letting my cats out, yes I did. It would be irresponsible not to consider all options and research the pro's and con's of each before making a decision, for me the important part was speaking to people who had done both. Once the options are considered yes it is black and white.  The turning point was my local vet see house cats as having a good quality of life and my friend who volunteers for the local cat charity also endorses it, herself having house cats (some of them being rescue cats).

This is where you arguments fails, as it is quite apparent you have never encountered a house cat first hand so are not in a position to comment.

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 22:20:08

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 21:02:48
I did not suggest a cat has a moral code. I am simply arguing that a cat can have a fulfilled life as a house cat. no less no more and does have emotions and an excellent quality of life that is not suppressed by living in a house.[/color]

I do not believe they do have as fulfilled a life.

As for the comparison to a truly wild animal, the same reasoning cannot be applied. Simply because lions are wild animals, where as cats are bred as pets.

Aaah so your logic on animal welfare does not extend all the way to a black and white solution ( to quote yourself , interesting ...........) As I said a pet cat can have the advantages of both wild and captive life you are denying your cats the benefits.

I wont retract my remarks about people being honest in their dislike for cats, they are entitled to their beliefs just as the next person. The onus is on the cat owner to keep their pet in this case cats under control and safe. To many people let their cats roam free with scant regard for other people or animals and expect everyone else to do their job of looking after their cat. That was my original argument. Cat owners who let their cats out are irresponsible.  

Total tosh, people are entitled not to like cats people are not entitled to beliefs that harm, maim or kill cats because they poo and nobody seriously concerned about animal welfare would say so! You have not spoken one word in rebuff to these cat haters. I invite you to do so now!

You still never answered my query of do you know any house cats and their owners to genuinely comment on whether it is wrong for a cats well being. I am just curious if you are speaking from personal experience or just object through assumption.

I did not realise you had asked this, yes I have. A friend made the misjudgement of keeping two siamese once , housebound in their high rise flat. The cats were always trying to escape and after a very narrow escape on the balcony the friend made the wise decision to rehome her cats to a third party with access to a garden.

At best you are seriously misguided in your beliefs. The onus in law thank god is for people to behave in a humane way towards cats.Your words would seem to be efforts to justify such evil actions by saying its the owners fault and if such I find that appalling. I invite you to clarify your meaning.

As you can clearly see cjb02 you are wrong yet again, I have very clearly responded to your query but why let facts get in the way of your arguement ehh?

The fact that you rewrite and misrepresent my views lends no credibility to your arguement!

The fact that you refuse to condemn those who offer violence towards these cherised animals will repulse the vast majority of responsible cat owners whether they keep house cats or not. This truelly underlines your false front as being concerned with animal welfare.

Your pets have free run of the house when no one is in but no way to get out. What if there was a fire ?

You allow that you have changed your mind once on this issue but still maintain that there is only black or white. Well I suppose you could be the equivalent of a born again housecat keeper.

I am posting here the guidlines from that well respected welfare organisation the RSPCA

What do cats need?


Companionship - to be with other cats or people for at least part of the day.
A balanced diet - make sure there are no bones in your cat's food.
A constant supply of fresh, clean water.
A garden or safe place to play and exercise every day, away from busy roads.  
Somewhere warm and cosy to sleep.
To be brushed regularly, particularly when shedding their coats. Long-haired cats need to be brushed every day.
A scratching post.
Help to clean their teeth. You can brush or rub their teeth with special toothpaste. They also need to have their teeth checked regularly by the vet.
To come and go as they please - a cat flap is ideal.  
To be trained to use a litter tray.
To be microchipped in case they get lost.
Cat neutering should be carried out as early as possible in order to avoid unwanted litters. Most cats are sexually mature at six months, but some cats can become pregnant as early as five months. Therefore, the ideal age to neuter your cat is between four and five months.
To be taken to a vet if they are ill or injured.
Injections to prevent certain serious diseases.
Worming and regular flea treatments.
To be looked after when you are away on holiday.

I highlight in red the points that might interest you.

I wish you two would either drop it or take it offlist!

I personally am with carbonel11 on this.  I would never force my cats to spend their entire lives indoors - they can come and go as they want through a electronic catflap.  None of them have never come to any harm in over 20 years so I take exception to being labelled irresponsible.   I am not condemning anyone who chooses to do differently - keep your cats in as you want cjb02 but do not insult me for not sharing your opinion.

Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on June 07, 2009, 10:22:38
I wish you two would either drop it or take it offlist!

I have thought from the beginning that this topic would be better of in the off topic chat forum. So agree in that sense . Anyhow off down the lottie, break in rain, C U laters  ;D

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 07, 2009, 10:21:06

Quote from: carbonel11 on June 06, 2009, 22:20:08

Quote from: cjb02 on June 06, 2009, 21:02:48
I did not suggest a cat has a moral code. I am simply arguing that a cat can have a fulfilled life as a house cat. no less no more and does have emotions and an excellent quality of life that is not suppressed by living in a house.[/color]

I do not believe they do have as fulfilled a life.

As for the comparison to a truly wild animal, the same reasoning cannot be applied. Simply because lions are wild animals, where as cats are bred as pets.

Aaah so your logic on animal welfare does not extend all the way to a black and white solution ( to quote yourself , interesting ...........) As I said a pet cat can have the advantages of both wild and captive life you are denying your cats the benefits.

I wont retract my remarks about people being honest in their dislike for cats, they are entitled to their beliefs just as the next person. The onus is on the cat owner to keep their pet in this case cats under control and safe. To many people let their cats roam free with scant regard for other people or animals and expect everyone else to do their job of looking after their cat. That was my original argument. Cat owners who let their cats out are irresponsible.  

Total tosh, people are entitled not to like cats people are not entitled to beliefs that harm, maim or kill cats because they poo and nobody seriously concerned about animal welfare would say so! You have not spoken one word in rebuff to these cat haters. I invite you to do so now!

You still never answered my query of do you know any house cats and their owners to genuinely comment on whether it is wrong for a cats well being. I am just curious if you are speaking from personal experience or just object through assumption.

I did not realise you had asked this, yes I have. A friend made the misjudgement of keeping two siamese once , housebound in their high rise flat. The cats were always trying to escape and after a very narrow escape on the balcony the friend made the wise decision to rehome her cats to a third party with access to a garden.

At best you are seriously misguided in your beliefs. The onus in law thank god is for people to behave in a humane way towards cats.Your words would seem to be efforts to justify such evil actions by saying its the owners fault and if such I find that appalling. I invite you to clarify your meaning.

As you can clearly see cjb02 you are wrong yet again, I have very clearly responded to your query but why let facts get in the way of your arguement ehh?

The fact that you rewrite and misrepresent my views lends no credibility to your arguement!

The fact that you refuse to condemn those who offer violence towards these cherised animals will repulse the vast majority of responsible cat owners whether they keep house cats or not. This truelly underlines your false front as being concerned with animal welfare.

Your pets have free run of the house when no one is in but no way to get out. What if there was a fire ?

You allow that you have changed your mind once on this issue but still maintain that there is only black or white. Well I suppose you could be the equivalent of a born again housecat keeper.

I am posting here the guidlines from that well respected welfare organisation the RSPCA

What do cats need?


Companionship - to be with other cats or people for at least part of the day.
A balanced diet - make sure there are no bones in your cat's food.
A constant supply of fresh, clean water.
A garden or safe place to play and exercise every day, away from busy roads.  
Somewhere warm and cosy to sleep.
To be brushed regularly, particularly when shedding their coats. Long-haired cats need to be brushed every day.
A scratching post.
Help to clean their teeth. You can brush or rub their teeth with special toothpaste. They also need to have their teeth checked regularly by the vet.
To come and go as they please - a cat flap is ideal.  
To be trained to use a litter tray.
To be microchipped in case they get lost.
Cat neutering should be carried out as early as possible in order to avoid unwanted litters. Most cats are sexually mature at six months, but some cats can become pregnant as early as five months. Therefore, the ideal age to neuter your cat is between four and five months.
To be taken to a vet if they are ill or injured.
Injections to prevent certain serious diseases.
Worming and regular flea treatments.
To be looked after when you are away on holiday.

I highlight in red the points that might interest you.

I will not be responding to any of your points, as this is clearly frustrating other board users of this gardening board.

I still strongly disagree with you.  I will not be posting any further comments on this subject.

Olicat, you still there ???.....

Here's what's worked for me for some years now when I've seeded my veggie plots in my garden, given that I can't stop cats entering the garden and they're so attracted to the soil there:-

I buy from the Pound shops packs of something sold as 'Lawn Edge' - plastic coated sections of arched wire - comes in white or green. Each pack will give a run of 1.8metres of edging. Much loved as lawn edging by elderly ladies who also have a penchant for wishing wells,  garden gnomes and wild-eyed meercats who bob about on coiled springs? Take a walk round your estate and you'll see the stuff I mean.

When I sow drills (or blocks) I line these with the edging and criss-cross with lengths of sticks, etc. They stay in place until the seedlings are well through and making their growth, so I usually hope to (thankfully) remove them about August, for a line of chard, for example. And I find the more unobtrusive green stuff invaluable to give support to more floppy-over plants, too.

Kind regards and I hope that you find that this will work for you too.

Lishka

Good to see you back, Hyacinth, we've missed you xx

Keeping the soil moist would work, cats prefer digging in dry soil. Another suggestion I have heard of is to put dried cat food where they are going on the basis that cats don't crap where they are eating. Think myself this might attract slugs.

   Can carbonel11 and cjb 02,  Please !

    --- get a room !              ::)

Quote from: flossy on June 07, 2009, 18:32:44


   Can carbonel11 and cjb 02,  Please !

    --- get a room !              ::)

Aaaaahh but where would the cat go ?

   Don't be silly !    ;D

    Got nothing to do with ' cats '  --   more to do with one-up-manship ?    ::)

Quote from: flossy on June 07, 2009, 19:20:39

   Don't be silly !    ;D

    Got nothing to do with ' cats '  --   more to do with one-up-manship ?    ::)

As someone pointed out you're never far away when there's an argument yourself are you Flossy ? ;D

Enjoy picking over the bones ? ;D

I noticed you tried to resurrect the thread "  fuming " without much success?

Have fun  ;D

Olicat for your endeavours & dear Hyacinth,
Shall we annihilate them now or later dear hearts?
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

      ::)    ::)    ???   ???   :D   :D  X

   Well carbonel11   -  I do have fun !     ;D

   All the people on this site are lovely,   will say  - in referance to your last post, that

   congratulations are due to the time and labour it must have taken you to ' trawl '

   through my last posts  ---   for a 2 star General, you are doing rather well !    ::)

   No I didn't want to  'resurrect ' a topic that had been worn out anyway !

   Perhaps you didn't ' trawl ' my posts intensely enough ?    It was purely a social view

   of schooling from at least 60 yrs ago,  as no one responded I gracefully withdrew.

   Does this give you an indication of what A4A is all about ?      I try to put in some useful

  input and gladly receive the help and advice that is given freely from these members here.

  floss xxx

 

Quote from: betula on May 11, 2009, 19:31:01
Hope georgie don't see that post Tony..........boy are you in trouble ;D

OR BUSTER54

Yes Telboy...still here...this subject has gone bananas!!!

this post  is going to go on until someone starts hitting the keys at random and we get the complete works of Shakespeare

just got back from two weeks in Greece.

I am not being didactic - for my part - i love my cats and want to do my best for them - they lie in the sun and they smell the fresh air - they walk on a lead too.

They are housecats, they go outside under my close supervision - i think it is irresponsible to turn them out to climb fences, kill birds and crap where they like - ultimately to end up as a fur pizza on the road.

end of!

Cats on a lead, oh dear.  Charlie (my cat) has gone to sleep on my bed with his paws over his ears.  He is a miserable old cat now and doesn't go out much, unless the sun is shining and he sleeps on the shed roof, but think we may have to get him a 'cat stair lift soon' as he is having trouble jumping up on to the fence and then the roof of the shed.  He was moaning yesterday as I had not cleaned the cat flap and he couldn't see out, so cleaned it for him. If I am in he likes the back door open.  When we had the thunder storm had flooding outside the back door so I was out with a sponge clearing the water so he could go outside for a pee and probably dig my plants up.  When we had the snow I had to give him a litter tray indoors as he wouldn't go out and was obviously distressed and when he tried to go in the wardrobe (probably to poo) thought the better option was a litter tray, but he was a very confused cat.  When he gets very old will keep him indoors and get a litter tray but he gets quite distressed if he can't go out and dig the garden.  I do see a lot of notices up about cats/kittens that have gone missing so can quite understand people if they want to keep their cats in and if that is want they want to do and the cats are happy, everyone else should shut up.

Quote from: Borlotti on June 18, 2009, 17:37:16
... ... everyone else should shut up.

I wish they would  ::) ::) ::) ::) >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Gosh..the cat thing runs on and on...!

The cat seems to have stopped pooping on my front garden... maybe it read all you comments and scarpered!!!

thanks everyone...x

Thank goodness for that .... ::) ;D

Same as Deb said.       ;D ;D ;D    :P